Should Metaknight Be Banned? The Poll (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[Jigglymaster]

Top five what?

Top 5 players in NJ

1.M2k (MK)
2. Teh Spammer (MK)
3. Atomsk (Olimar, DDD)
4. Inui (MK)
5. Blackwaltz (Olimar)

M2K is saying that there is a big gap between #1-4 up and #5-15 skill level wise.

1.M2k (MK)
2. Teh Spammer (MK)
3. Atomsk (Olimar, DDD)
4. Inui (MK)

5. Blackwaltz (Olimar)
6. Ketario (Falco)
7. Dapuffster (Diddy Kong)

I don't know the rankings after myself.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Hmm i didnt vote yet... I do believe a ban will work, not perma ban, but we have to make some sort of 'comprimise'... if you ban him for a certain time limit, loyal MKs will just keep practicing MK til the ban is over... the point IMO is to try to improve other chars so they have better chances fighting MK/ we find more important ATs in the game... so I think there should be some sort of deal in this, may be something like: MK is banned til people/SBR feel there has been significant improvement in other char's metagames and/or if you find enough AT(s) that are important enough, with enough testing/details done, may be the SBR could give them permission to use MK in tournies for their work, or even just let them use MK for one tourny... that way, people would be encouraged to do stuff...

just some rough thoughts

 

[The Real Inferno]

I believe I've pointed out before that temporarily banning Meta Knight will only make people be even less prepared for him in tournies if they get time off from him, only for the **** to return. There's no incentive to get better against a character you don't have to fight against on a regular basis.

 

[kackamee]

I say if there is even enough proof for a character to be even considered ban worthy by a number of people he should be banned for a period of time.

Or as a friend of mine suggested, he can only be used 1 match out of a 3 set.

 

[zrky]

^for MK it should be more like 1/20 matches AT MINIMUM

 

[ftl]

That would be pointless. It would make you play a guessing game of 'is this a hard enough match for me to use MK'? Which isn't something we want. It would make lesser-known players have an advantage (since people won't use MK against them) and would give better-known players a disadvantage (everyone's gonna play MK when against someone famous).

There are lots more things wrong with this idea; that's just one.

 

[momochuu]

Lolz, are we still deciding if MK is broken or not? Or is it still about Final Fantasy?

 

[Cissnei]

Had this same thread in every other forum. I think he's beatable, depending on the person. But even for the godly Metaknight players, we forget its Brawl, so with certain combos/techniques he is beatable. Its fighting him thats makes it annoying.

 

[XienZo]

It actually went back on-topic. No more FF discussion for you...

 

[MarKO X]

Lolz, are we still deciding if MK is broken or not? Or is it still about Final Fantasy?

Final Fantasy?

Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Sephiroth
Sephiroth

 

[Keitaro]

NJ goes like this

1) m2k
2-3) atomsk/spam any order
4) inui

then there's like a big gap and everyone else is like inconsistent and who even knows who's 5.

Bleh, it's more like

1) M2K
2) Spam
3)Atomsk
4)Inui or whoever beats Inui or Atomsk in tourney which are: Blackwaltz, Dapuffster, Keitaro, and Yehs.

Done

M2K and Spam are unbeatable by the rest of NJ btw.

 

[momochuu]

Final Fantasy?

Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Sephiroth
Sephiroth

Yeah, that song is pretty boss.

Booooo~ No MK talk, bring back the Final Fantasy. ^__^

 

[M15t3R E]

That would be pointless. It would make you play a guessing game of 'is this a hard enough match for me to use MK'? Which isn't something we want. It would make lesser-known players have an advantage (since people won't use MK against them) and would give better-known players a disadvantage (everyone's gonna play MK when against someone famous).

There are lots more things wrong with this idea; that's just one.

Guessing game? Why does that matter? Giving lesser-known players an advantage and better-known players a disadvantage? I think you have it wrong. Lesser-known players are often noobs who, after a short while, start placing well with Meta Knight. As for better-known players, the ban will disadvantage them by taking away their precious broken character. Sounds good to me. Better for competition as the results in terms of character wins would be more diverse.

Yeah, that song is pretty boss.

Booooo~ No MK talk, bring back the Final Fantasy. ^__^

Okay, I have had enough debating about that.

Final Fantasy all the way! If I can brag for a moment, I've played and fully beaten (done every sidequest and collected everything, maxed out the levels of most characters, etc.) FF's 5-12. Best RPG series, EVER!

Here's Sephiroth's theme. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn71hIsm0U8

It's awesome!

 

[The Real Inferno]

Actually I've always felt Final Fantasy is a bland and generic series that plays very well to hype and does a great job of ripping off fantasy/Sci-fi novelists every chance it gets. 6 was the only good one IMO.

 

[M15t3R E]

Actually I've always felt Final Fantasy is a bland and generic series that plays very well to hype and does a great job of ripping off fantasy/Sci-fi novelists every chance it gets. 6 was the only good one IMO.

Bland and generic? Wow 0_0
Those are actually the antonyms of adjectives I would use to describe the series...

It sounds to me like you're the type of person who doesn't like to immerse yourself in the plotline of games or movies. You must not like RPG's, in general.
My guess... the SSE of Brawl didn't interest you in the least bit. Amirite?
As far as FF ripping off Sci-fi novelists, I have never heard that. Sounds like an arbitrary claim by you with no evidence behind it.

 

[Espy Rose]

I personally don't care for the Final Fantasy series myself. I did enjoy FFX though, but after awhile it started feeling a bit...stale.

Storyline was moderately well done and all...but it didn't feel right. I love RPGs as much as the next guy, but I don't think the FF series is something for me.

Although I do love watching my friends fail miserably when they fight bosses for the first time.

 

[Pikaville]

Final Fantasy series is awesome no arguement.

But seriously I think the topic at hand is more important......ok maybe not as important as Sephiroth.

Why not try the soft ban?High level players just choose not to use him(like akuma in SF)Then they destroy noobs who pick him with him?

 

[Genome Squirrel]

i prefer etrian odyssey and other rougelikes
i never felt like i was going to lose a battle in a FF game.
etrian odyssey had these FOEs that had little tricks for hunting you down
and they could wipe out your party 1st or 2nd turn

 

[MarKO X]

i only like FF2 (in us) and FF7. The rest... hmmm

Kingdom Hearts ftw.

 

[deepseadiva]

My guess... the SSE of Brawl didn't interest you in the least bit. Amirite?

The cutscenes where cool, so was the music, otherwise... meh.

And that maze crap can go to hell.

 

[infomon]

Kingdom Hearts ftw.

yes yes yes yes yes yes.

Edit:

The cutscenes where cool, so was the music, otherwise... meh.

And that maze crap can go to hell.

Agreed. And I was really looking forward to SSE; I thought they would have learned from the mistakes of Adventure mode in Melee. They didn't.

IMO, the problem is that the Brawl engine makes for a terrible platformer; at least, the way they put it together. Let me explain. For starters, the characters are not designed to move around large levels. You can't run, jump, land, and keep running in a fluid motion; landing from a jump has landing lag, even moreso if it's fastfalled, and you have to tap forward again to keep running. This makes it subtly tedious to run around a field, although it makes sense for fighting on a small stage.

A bigger problem is the killzones, that arbitrarily follow you around, and have a very pervasive impact on the gameplay. You're always on your toes, because you don't know where the killzone is at any time, if the stage suddenly decides to start scrolling then you can be killed just for being somewhere that was safe, and if you get hit then the camera doesn't follow you, sometimes even after you get up and are trying to keep walking around the level. It's just frustrating, to be fighting the game dynamic rather than the actual enemies.

But the enemies are also a problem. Rather than fights being consistent with the way Brawl actually works (in Brawls), you're usually fighting a large number of small weak enemies, and crowd-control is difficult with most characters. If anyone touches you, you're stuck in hitstun, even if it's short in Brawl -- maybe this is part of the reason for that? Hitstun is great for 2-4 players, but terrible for fighting an army of small monsters. It just means you're not in control. The only real way to retaliate is to spam multi-hit moves, like Pika's Dsmash. You can't fight using your character's real strengths and weaknesses. On that note, many moves don't even work in SSE; like Bowser's side-B, it just fails, because you can't really grab SSE enemies. This is a game-design fault.

Ergh, I could go on and on. SSE just fails because it doesn't fit with the way Brawl physics works. They could have made a reasonable one-player adventure mode just by designing something different. Maybe something like Classic Mode but with level-exploration, puzzles+traps, fewer enemies that act more like real Brawl characters, and situational battles between characters that are relevant to the plot. You could even set up situations like in Events Mode, where some characters are mini for a battle, sometimes you have to defend a character for some plot-related reason, etc.

Alas.

 

[XienZo]

lol, everybody loves KH...

 

[LAWZ]

I am definately a yes on the banning of mk.....he's so broken.....his up-b is like wtf hax speed....his recovery...unless you build his damage enough to take him out straight away...will always bring him back to the stage....

infinite dimension cape.....neutral b vortex that can be spammed a whole match

it's ridiculous

 

[Ken Neth]

Infinite Dimension cape is banned.

Tornado is punshable and easy to see coming if they spam it.

 

[da K.I.D.]

its still safer than what ppl give it credit for

 

[Conclusively]

its still safer than what ppl give it credit for

Yep. As long as you aren't an idiot and spamming B 'till the top of the stage, then floating slowly down, unable to do anything.. there's not really any negatives to Nado. If a MK player just keeps close to the ground, it's safe.

 

[M15t3R E]

Yep. As long as you aren't an idiot and spamming B 'till the top of the stage, then floating slowly down, unable to do anything.. there's not really any negatives to Nado. If a MK player just keeps close to the ground, it's safe.

Precisely. Good MK's will never get punished for it. Just ask M2K or Dojo. Anti-ban people have good arguments too but for them to say the nado is punishable is complete BS.
If nado is spammed, you might see it coming as MK gets uncomfortably close to you. Then you may possibly shield it but in such an event the MK will instantly move to the side and end the nado an inch above ground. If you think you can react and punish the almost non-existent ending lag of nado, well then I hope you enjoy 3-frame d-smashes in your face.

 

[Sharky]

I'm pretty sure it's 5 frame dsmash, unless I'm mistaken?

 

[M15t3R E]

You may be right. 3, 5. Either way my point stands. Good MK's won't leave themselves open for punishment.

 

[cman]

I'm pretty sure it's 5 frame dsmash, unless I'm mistaken?

That is still faster than several characters' jabs, for a reference point.

 

[misterpimp5757]

when is the voting over?

 

[Sharky]

This poll isn't anything official. It doesn't decide anything, just a general poll.

and most jabs are faster than 5 frames, actually. They're usually 3 or 4. >.>

 

[ShadowLink84]

Mk's Dsmash has the hitbox out on frame 3.

So its as fast as a the average jab.
Sad huh.

 

[cutter]

How does MK's Dsmash hit on frame 3?!?

It hits on frame 5.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Don't know its what I have heard.
I don't have a capture card to really verify.

 

[∫unk]

the reason why d-smash hits is because it come out so fast and when meta is that close to you he has the advantage. HE dictates when he's going to do the attack, you're on the reaction which is why you usually get hit.

He can also just go from his "jab" straight into a d-smash, which is most likely faster than your jab regardless of reaction time.

 

[ShadowLink84]

jab~Dsmash<DI

You should never get jab~Dsmashed by MK under any circumstance.

Let alone that we are discussing the speed of Dsmash not why it hits -_-;

 

[momochuu]

Metaknight is fast!

 

[Tenki]

How does MK's Dsmash hit on frame 3?!?

It hits on frame 5.

Part of the reason is because M2K released a bunch of MK frame data that he gathered via pausing and unpausing through multiple trials.

He only gathered startup lag though. Not duration, not ending lag.

Every time I've asked for complete frame data for MK, they'd link me to that post. blah.

jab~Dsmash<DI

You should never get jab~Dsmashed by MK under any circumstance.

Let alone that we are discussing the speed of Dsmash not why it hits -_-;

You can argue about teching all you want, but for example, Luigi's Mansion - throw opponent into ceiling > (fail the ground tech)> jab> D-smash.

jab-lock style :[

 

[ShadowLink84]

You can argue about teching all you want, but for example, Luigi's Mansion - throw opponent into ceiling > (fail the ground tech)> jab> D-smash.

jab-lock style :[

So you're telling me people will not use BASIC Di in order to move away from MK before he can Dsmash them from a jab?