Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Twin_A]

I'm the only sheik main in new Mexico, but theres literally like 5 falcons >.<

Oh well makes my tourney experience easier haha.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

2 questions
1) where is the sweet spot on sheiks up air
2) I know ( or at least have read) the strongest point on sheiks nair is on her folded leg, but it seems to me its still best to hit with the tip of the extended leg. Am i using it wrong?

 

[Nihonjin]

1) It's when you hit, not where. It's strong in the earlier frames and weak in the later ones. (doesn't matter where you hit though)
2) Same as Uair. I don't see a point to hit with the tip of her leg though, might as well fair then...

 

[DJRome]

nair tip is okay for a nair into fast fall to cover a lot of area, esp for edgeguarding.

 

[Devil Ray]

I'm a sheik main in the MW :{

oops, my bad dude. i play mostly with the west part of MW, a little Indiana too. I'd say you're luckier, it seems you're closer to the EC players. MW is garbs compared to the coasts

 

[DtJ Jungle]

lol i'm just playin witchu

uhhh not really MI is pretty isolated on its own :/

 

[soap]

waatt???

sveet, don't confuse ppl who just use sheik against your marth with real sheik mains.

there's only two in IL. me and mattR(he is suuuppper good, but uses a gay falco too). a few other exist, but they don't go to tournies.


in midwest, it's mattR, drephen(super-sheik), darkatma, phatgamer, soap(still using sheik?), and me(i'm just ok, but i'm active). there might be more, but so many have quit at this point.

i still main sheik, i've decided she is fun after all, nobody else has more annoying combos

there is also dabear, he mains sheik from somewhere, i forgot where he is from. and X does up B is really good. him and 4% tear it up in teams every tourney

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

One of ORLY's friends mains sheik, he isnt that bad.

but yea, i guess there are just slightly more sheiks than marths.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sheik and Marth are endangered characters.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Those falco elitist commited genocide on us.

 

[KirbyKaze]

The increasing rise of Falco and Fox have not been good for Sheik.

 

[SPAWN]

Here here KK.

Also, I'm really sad we didn't get to play at Rom2. Every tv was constantly being used. T_T We should've mm'd for like a dollar or something so we could've kicked people off and done it best out of like 1000.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I agree.

 

[Dynamism?]

That just means somebody has to go around putting the genocide on spaciez...
I'll put my hopes in Luigi.

XD

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'll put my hopes in Falco.

...wait.

 

[Devil Ray]

i still main sheik, i've decided she is fun after all, nobody else has more annoying combos

there is also dabear, he mains sheik from somewhere, i forgot where he is from. and X does up B is really good. him and 4% tear it up in teams every tourney

haha DaBear hasn't played in almost two years. he's from Chicago. his zelda was incredible. the way he used both chars was ridiculous.

for how good sheik and marth are, they definitely are underused.

 

[SPAWN]

They're not underused. Fox and Falco are just overused.

 

[Lordydennek]

Questions
1)Who has the best matchup vs. spacies?Idk if i trust the matchup chart on here.
2)Does It seem like Cfalcon is getting A LOT of play recently? lol but thats ok for Sheiks
3) I'm having a ****ton of trouble fighting marth...idk why. i should be winning. Its mainly i cant recover once im off. I keep getting edgeguarded like a mother. stupid tipper... any ideas for a good approach would be appreciated.

 

[pockyD]

spacies themselves have the best matchup vs spacies

sucks doesn't it

 

[Lordydennek]

spacies themselves have the best matchup vs spacies

sucks doesn't it

What the... ****.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I MAIN SHEIK

BUT I DON'T MATTER.

Excuse me while I bawwwwww.

Smooth Criminal

 

[soap]

i definitely played friendlies with dabear at sakurai can't save you now last year

he doesn't play now? he was a nice guy, a little too nice actually

 

[Banks]

I played DaBear at a tournament in maine in like 2006

i have no idea why he was there exactly, but he said he lived in chicago i think

 

[Plairnkk]

Questions
1)Who has the best matchup vs. spacies?Idk if i trust the matchup chart on here.
2)Does It seem like Cfalcon is getting A LOT of play recently? lol but thats ok for Sheiks
3) I'm having a ****ton of trouble fighting marth...idk why. i should be winning. Its mainly i cant recover once im off. I keep getting edgeguarded like a mother. stupid tipper... any ideas for a good approach would be appreciated.

i dont lose to marth, well, ever. im probably the best sheik vs marth so listen to what i say!


do not approach, ever. sheiks approaching game is too weak, her horizontal aerial movement does not allow for a good approach with air moves, so basically you would just be grabbing or dash attacking if you approached, which marth feeds on. Dash/wavedash around and wait for openings, your grabs should **** marth. throw needles to make sure he comes to YOU. edgeguarding learn to go lower so the tipper doesnt hit you. a good marth will make you land on the stage, but thats better than getting tippered off the stage.

 

[Fletch]

Falco and Marth have the best matchup vs spacies

sucks doesn't it

Fixed that for you.

EDIT:

i dont lose to marth, well, ever. im probably the best sheik vs marth so listen to what i say!


do not approach, ever. sheiks approaching game is too weak, her horizontal aerial movement does not allow for a good approach with air moves, so basically you would just be grabbing or dash attacking if you approached, which marth feeds on. Dash/wavedash around and wait for openings, your grabs should **** marth. throw needles to make sure he comes to YOU. edgeguarding learn to go lower so the tipper doesnt hit you. a good marth will make you land on the stage, but thats better than getting tippered off the stage.

What happens when you play M2K's Marth? Not trying to poke fun, I just honestly want to know how you do in the matchup.

 

[soap]

omg

"Continued running around and banana throwing by Puffster. He has yet to adapt. In a world of natural selection, Puffster would have been gone long ago.

i couldn't really watch the match, but the play by play was amazing.

some great lines in there

were you thinking of what to write while flying?

 

[Lawrencelot]

Questions
1)Who has the best matchup vs. spacies?Idk if i trust the matchup chart on here.
2)Does It seem like Cfalcon is getting A LOT of play recently? lol but thats ok for Sheiks
3) I'm having a ****ton of trouble fighting marth...idk why. i should be winning. Its mainly i cant recover once im off. I keep getting edgeguarded like a mother. stupid tipper... any ideas for a good approach would be appreciated.

1) depends on the player. Against some reckless players Peach or Marth work very well, against predictable players Sheik is good, and spacies themselves are also good.
2) Yeah I noticed that as well and I find it OK as well lol
3) I don't know how good you are so sorry if this is obvious to you. If you're hit offstage, don't just jump into the stage right away. Move out of Marth's range, or let yourself fall lower, change the timing of your upB, try to upB into the edge diagonally one time and try to grab the edge with the first part of your upB the other time, or DI+jump high and airdodge. In other words, just mix up your recovery. And make sure your edgeguarding is at least as good as his, edgeguarding marth can be done in many ways as well.

 

[Kira-]

i dont lose to marth, well, ever. im probably the best sheik vs marth so listen to what i say!


do not approach, ever. sheiks approaching game is too weak, her horizontal aerial movement does not allow for a good approach with air moves, so basically you would just be grabbing or dash attacking if you approached, which marth feeds on. Dash/wavedash around and wait for openings, your grabs should **** marth. throw needles to make sure he comes to YOU. edgeguarding learn to go lower so the tipper doesnt hit you. a good marth will make you land on the stage, but thats better than getting tippered off the stage.

dont approach, i agree


i beat m2k in a friendly on FD so that should be enough proof


also learn when you can up B straight to the ledge and still grab it (even though they stand up from the ledge). then you never die.

sheik wins because she makes marth approach and she never dies. /matchup

 

[KirbyKaze]

Make him do the first move and then punish it.

DD boost grab > Marth
DD dash attack > Marth
Sheik edgeguard > Marth

Since you can edgeguard after dash attack combos and grab combos after a bit, just combo him so he's offstage and then do Sheik stuff. On that note, learn how to do good throw combos. Most Sheiks waste their grabs for 25% combos and it hurts my eyes.

Crouch is also very good because it prevents his stuff from launching and beats his grab if he's trying to max-range it. Crouch cancel F-tilt is also fairly ****, as is crouch cancel grab and D-smash depending on position and other stuff.

 

[Lordydennek]

Ok thanks everyone . I guess approaching him in the first place was wrong. Should I always dthrow? and what throw should i do to follow up with a dsmash? I do switch up my recovery a lot. I can get the edge but on most stages i can never get back on. if i roll he smashes if i jump he fairs if i just stand up i get tipped. what edge stall tactics are the best? when i drop and the grab the edge again i get tipped if im not careful. And lastly whats the best advice for fighting on Marth's story...

sorry for all the questions...
also is it possible to wd backwards onto the ledge on yoshi's story...i fail at it allll the time.

 

[Spife]

Since you can edgeguard after dash attack combos and grab combos after a bit, just combo him so he's offstage and then do Sheik stuff. On that note, learn how to do good throw combos. Most Sheiks waste their grabs for 25% combos and it hurts my eyes.

Two quesitons
what are good throw combos?
and WTF ARE MY DOGS BARKING AT?!

 

[KirbyKaze]

Marth DI away:
Chain grab at low percent, or dash attack --> bull****

Marth DI anywhere else:
U-tilt (low percent, high percent) or Uairs (medium percent) because they combo into ridiculous bull**** and Marth sucks at getting down from Sheik juggles

At like 75 if he DIs anywhere but away and there's no platform you can just U-smash and KO.

 

[Lordydennek]

Ok thanks everyone . I guess approaching him in the first place was wrong. Should I always dthrow? and what throw should i do to follow up with a dsmash? I do switch up my recovery a lot. I can get the edge but on most stages i can never get back on. if i roll he smashes if i jump he fairs if i just stand up i get tipped. what edge stall tactics are the best? when i drop and the grab the edge again i get tipped if im not careful. And lastly whats the best advice for fighting on Marth's story...

sorry for all the questions...
also is it possible to wd backwards onto the ledge on yoshi's story...i fail at it allll the time.

I just wanted to post this again on this page. double thanks to all.

 

[Dynamism?]

i beat m2k in a friendly on FD so that should be enough proof

The first time I ever watched a video of Marth vs Shiek was m2k 2 stocking you on FD (I think)
I didn't know what to expect, but he makes Marth look so smooth and shuts down shiek options so much that there was no bull**** the whole match.

like WTF!

 

[Lawrencelot]

I do switch up my recovery a lot. I can get the edge but on most stages i can never get back on. if i roll he smashes if i jump he fairs if i just stand up i get tipped. what edge stall tactics are the best? when i drop and the grab the edge again i get tipped if im not careful.

I've had this very same problem against a patient Marth. I've made a thread about it, especially Amsah's post was helpful: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=231324&page=4

 

[KirbyKaze]

Ok thanks everyone . I guess approaching him in the first place was wrong. Should I always dthrow? and what throw should i do to follow up with a dsmash? I do switch up my recovery a lot. I can get the edge but on most stages i can never get back on. if i roll he smashes if i jump he fairs if i just stand up i get tipped. what edge stall tactics are the best? when i drop and the grab the edge again i get tipped if im not careful. And lastly whats the best advice for fighting on Marth's story...

sorry for all the questions...
also is it possible to wd backwards onto the ledge on yoshi's story...i fail at it allll the time.

D-smash I have mixed feelings on.

You can do it a lot. But a lot of the time I'd rather just keep the combo going with F-tilt, D-tilt, or grab. And Fair is a better combo finisher, so... yeah. I guess if you want to finish the combo and can't Fair it's fine. How you set that up is pretty much whatever. I find Fair --> D-smash at low percent not too bad if you can make them survival DI the Fair (Hint: edge) but even then I'd rather grab most of the time because then I can do more with it.

You can WD backwards onto the ledge on Yoshi's Story. If the slant troubles you, practice. Or angle the stick less horizontally and more down.

On Yoshi's you have good combos and amazing follows with the platforms. Just spam Uair during combos and eventually get them offstage with Fair or whatever and gimp them. You can platform waveland --> stuff to follow pretty well here too. Don't spend too much time on platforms because they're low and you can be punished if they rambo into you, but the platforms are a good way to move and throw needles (on top of and under) so use them, but it's kind of like hot potato. You don't want to have the platform for too, too long.

To get onstage, Up+B stall and ledgedash with invincibility. If that's too hard, Up+B stall and do a standard getup if you're below 100 (wait for him to back off or do something). Over 100 it pays immensely to be able to ledgedash.

 

[DJRome]

what is this ledgedash you speak of? just wavedash onto stage from ledge?

 

[KirbyKaze]

It would actually technically be a waveland, but yes, that's the idea.

 

[Lordydennek]

Ok thanks a lot KK. I think i do like the tilts better too. how do you execute a ledgedash?I know how to waveland but im wouldnt know the appraoch from the edge

@Lawrence thanks for the thread. Good stuff!

 

[KirbyKaze]

Ok thanks a lot KK. I think i do like the tilts better too. how do you execute a ledgedash?I know how to waveland but im wouldnt know the appraoch from the edge

1) Drop off the edge - whether you use down or back is largely irrelevant

2) Immediately double jump towards the stage and aim the stick towards the edge; you can slant it or do it completely horizontal, depending on how you like to do it

3) Airdodge

Done correctly, you simply double jump and slide onto the stage with the fluffy wave "clouds" around you. Executed swiftly and quickly, it can be done with complete ledge invincibility, which is dandy.