[Secondaries for Peach] Currently Discussing: Yoshi

[M@v]

Ganon is my low tier main. But you will never see him with my name above in anything serious. ganon is another epic fail.

 

[Villi]

Ganon isn't an effective secondary, but I think he's a good character to be able to play well. Over b mind games are incredibly fun. There are so many different ways to punish if you just believe! Also, I think learning how to play him well promotes good technique since he's very slow otherwise. L2ThunderStormkthx You have all these scary kill moves xD even dash attack.

 

[PrepareYourself]

This thread seems to have died down, due to both my laziness in updating as well as the wave of low tier characters.

But today marks the day of Tier-high! (Starting with ZSS) Discuss away.

 

[Xyless]

ZSS is my secondary, even though she's very hard to play as. She's very different to Peach, as she needs to space herself much further away to be effective.

Also, with enough control, she can be a beast. It's too bad her biggest strength is against the Star Fox group, whom Peach is also strong against.

 

[DrakeRowan]

I tried to pick ZSS up as a secondary but it twas to no avail. My biggest concern was that ZSS's short hops don't feel like true short hops. Her jumps are absolutely huge compared to peaches smaller (and more controlled) jumps.

ZSS armor pieces are like 3 ._. faced turnips. They do tons of DMG after awhile and you can effectively glide toss them as well. You only have 3 of these though so make good use of them, They can easily be turned against you as well.

 

[Xyless]

I tend to use the armor pieces as a temporary shield, jumping up in front of my opponent and zdropping them near them in hopes that they'll run into them. Which they normally do.

 

[Razmakazi]

idk about the match-ups but all I know is zss is pretty good and really weird to use meaning also weird to fight if you're good. she's another wildcard like peach which seems pretty weird to handle coz of her range and 3 jumps so I think she's actually a pretty good 2nd.

 

[Paff]

ZSS is very fun to play, which is the main criteria I use for choosing which characters to use (hence why I main both Peach and ZSS). I'm mostly a casual player, but I've got a few useful insights I think:

The armor pieces should be pretty easy to use for Peach mains, since their mechanics are fairly turnip-like and they're glide-tossable and so on.

It seems likely that ZSS goes even with MK, which is definitely a plus for competetive play. And owing to how different ZSS and Peach are, it seems likely that there are other matchups where ZSS has less trouble/greater advantage than Peach.

And that's about it I think.

 

[Snakeee]

I've been waiting for this lol. Well, the only match up that's really uphill for ZSS is Falco. I haven't really tried using Peach much against him, and I actually use Sheik in that match up. I'd guess it's close for Peach, but slightly in Falco's favor, no? And she can CG him a bit.

I think Peach is the better choice than ZSS against DDD, Diddy, and maybe Lucario.

On the other side, ZSS should really cover Peach's tough match ups. She goes about even with Meta, Snake, and Marth. What are other characters that Peach has some trouble with? I'll give you my input on those too.

 

[deepseadiva]

Game & Watch?

It's starting to sound like Zamus is a really good choice.

 

[Snakeee]

I don't have that much trouble against G&W with Peach actually. Is he really considered a counter for her? However, I think ZSS actually has the advantage against him

 

[Vik]

Snakee, peach can't approach in the air vs G&W(because of upb). She can't combo G&W(also because of upb) . G&W has better aerials. Only thing peach can do is approach with turnips and try to outspace G&W which is easily beatable. However, even though I do win the match-up from both sides, (because for some reasons a lot of G&Ws don't know how to fight peach...shrug) it's clearly G&W advantage...and yea ZSS beats G&W lol

 

[PrepareYourself]

So what will it be for ZSS? 5/5? O_o

I mean, Marth, MK, Snake...

 

[PrepareYourself]

Now discussing ROB.

 

[Praxis]

I've been waiting for this lol. Well, the only match up that's really uphill for ZSS is Falco. I haven't really tried using Peach much against him, and I actually use Sheik in that match up. I'd guess it's close for Peach, but slightly in Falco's favor, no? And she can CG him a bit.

Actually, Falco's one of her worst. She can't get through his camp game.

If the Falco is aggressive, no problem- Peach can CG him to ftilt for 40%, and edgeguard the crap out of him (nair and bair beat his phantasm, as do turnips), and he can't CG her. But if the Falco knows the matchup and camps and plays defensive the entire match, Peach really can't do much.

She goes about even with Meta, Snake, and Marth. What are other characters that Peach has some trouble with? I'll give you my input on those too.

G&W, which you covered, Falco, Meta, and Snake are her worst matchups, with Marth as a common problem matchup as well.

Sounds like ZSS is the best choice outside of Meta that we've covered.

 

[Xyless]

yessss glad to see I've picked a good sub then.

 

[Xyless]

oh wait we're talking about ROB now.

ROB is pretty much Peach from Melee, but with robotic limbs that give him more range (we call him Robo-Peach around here). The biggest thing you have to keep an eye out for is his gyro, which has a decent arc that catches floaters when they're at their perfect height. I tend to turnip ***** ROBs to extinction. Also, when you do go in for a float attack, make sure to go in at a good angle diagonally. Too close above, and he'll uptilt or upsmash you, and if you're too far away, he'll ftilt up at you.

Either way, I think Peach has the advantage here.

 

[Razmakazi]

xyless, we're talking 2nds man. this isn't the match-up thread xD

at any rate. rob can **** snake pretty hard, idk how he does vs. falco but i would imagine it's like 45-55 or maybe even. there's no fkn way rob shud be used vs. mk, maybe he can do better vs. martha though. idk, rob seems pretty solid and well. I also like how he has a similar KO problem to peach's which they both remedy w/ good *** edgeguarding ;o

 

[Xyless]

d'oh, I got mixed up when I went to post the second time. I had a strange feeling after I said Peach had the advantage that something was wrong.

Anyway, ROB as I was originally trying to say with my second sentence (first of the second paragraph) was that, since ROB plays similar to Peach in Melee, he's rather easy to learn and use. Problem is, he really can't handle any of the people above him on the tier list, so he's not really worth it as far as using him competitively.

 

[Praxis]

Hmm, ROB does well against Snake and Marth (IIRC having the advantage on both, though slight), but is absolute fail against G&W and MK- I think he actually does worse than Peach in these matchups (65:35 or 70:30?), they just absolutely destroy him. No idea how he does against Falco.

Not the best choice IMO.

 

[DrakeRowan]

ROB was my main before I picked up peach. I'm deciding if he should be my TRUE secondary or not. ROB is Very similar to peach imo. ROBs Dsmash is superior then peach's. He can glide toss. His jab and tilts are both very good. All of ROB's aerials has its uses which makes him a very good aerial fighter. The only thing I don't like about ROB is his size. If you're having trouble VS. snake with peach, then ROB might be a good choice.

His learning curve is very small for peach players and can easily be picked up in a short amount of time.

 

[Kataefi]

I find rob quite tricky to learn. He has awkward movements for me that I can't seem to adjust to. I don't really agree with the list in the OP as to who is easy to learn and who isn't :-/

 

[chandy]

Link is 1/5!!! I think u got that wrong :@ Link is a ge alt main for Peach because he's strong and it makes up for Peach's hard time killing. U sed no glidetossing but still if u learn how to bomb slide he's just as good + once you learn Link his techniques will remain in ur hand and u don't need to spend more time practicing with him and can do that with Peach. Just learn all his techs which can give u a gd time while learning them. Sorry I missed when u were discussing Link but this thread offends me a lot D:<

 

[Vik]

but link is bad...

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

As a character...well he's still low on the tier list...

As a secondary for Peach though chandy, he gets a 1 out of 5 because

- He doesn't do better in any of her neutral/disadvantaged match ups
- He does worse in the majority of her neutral/disadvantaged match ups
- He doesn't have any better more advantaged match ups on certain characters

Sadly, he gets a 1/5 because he doesn't fill the requirements as a secondary for Peach which is to cover Peach's neutral/bad match ups

 

[chandy]

As a character...well he's still low on the tier list...

As a secondary for Peach though chandy, he gets a 1 out of 5 because

- He doesn't do better in any of her neutral/disadvantaged match ups
- He does worse in the majority of her neutral/disadvantaged match ups
- He doesn't have any better more advantaged match ups on certain characters

Sadly, he gets a 1/5 because he doesn't fill the requirements as a secondary for Peach which is to cover Peach's neutral/bad match ups

*Curses himself for missing the debate over Link*
Personally I don't believe in match ups because i feel it's biased against lower tiers. True Link has a suckish recovery which makes him easy to gimp. But on stage Link has a great range game, good approaches (Zair and Gale Boomerang set up combos) and he kills very well which Peach doesn't. His aerials aren't so bad as his nair is and bair are very fast with little lag and altho dair has a lot of lag if used at the right time (edge guarding) Plus I suppose all match ups have been discussed by pros and it's not a gd idea to go against them for an amateur like me. But I believe that Link does cover some of Peach's bad match ups eg Lucario. Link crouch blocks Aura Sphere, up tilt prioritirises up tilt ( I think ) and his range game makes him hard to approach. Peach however is very bad against Lucario and so I think instead of looking at Link's placement in the tier list we shud look at Link's better abilties than Peach. + he's not the easiest to learn so it's fun to learn to use him but once u've learned the ATs they stay so u can go back to focussing on Peach and won't get much worse with Link. It's what I did when I used to alt main Link.

At least Link shud be a better secondary than Ganondorf who is very slow compared to Peach and Link comparitively can combo better. ( So Link shud be 1.5 or 2 not 1 )

 

[AAP]

Woa i'm surprised at the ZSS rating, i'll have to try her sometime.

As far as ROB goes. I like him pretty good, i don't see the similarities to melee peach tho aside from having a whorenado. I do agree with kataefi as far as learning curve is concerned. I find the spacing and timing awkward for many of ROBs aerials but that could just be me. As a secondary i think rob is a viable choice, he can help in some match ups, his glide tosses are awesome, he has good range, powerful aerials and some decent gimping potential. Ultimately ROB shares some of peachs bad match-ups, so maybe not the best choice but i wouldn't rule him out.

 

[Xyless]

Hmm, ROB does well against Snake and Marth (IIRC having the advantage on both, though slight), but is absolute fail against G&W and MK- I think he actually does worse than Peach in these matchups (65:35 or 70:30?), they just absolutely destroy him. No idea how he does against Falco.

Not the best choice IMO.

Both the Falco and ROB users are unsure, since each says they're 40-60 against each other.

As far as G&W and MK go, ROB has absolutely nothing on them, as you've said. My roommate knows this all to well, which is why he's trying desperately to find a secondary for his ROB.

 

[PrepareYourself]

I gave R.O.B. a 2.5. Argue if you want.

Otherwise moving onto D3.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Provided your grab buttons and control stick work fine, I reckon DeDeDe could be a good character to use

I think he does better vs Snake but does badly vs IC's

He can infinite a few characters as well

 

[Xyless]

His worst matchup is IC by far. Since they do what he does, but better...and can counter his CG.

Though I'm not a fan of DeDeDe, he's effective against the other top tiers.

 

[Flamingo]

Ehhh... MK!

 

[Xyless]

Required horrible video posting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhS0JrGV2Vw

 

[Flamingo]

Required horrible video posting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhS0JrGV2Vw

What was that?

 

[Morrigan]

ban that stage against DDD lol
and you should abuse Dair in that matchup

 

[Xyless]

What was that?

That was me facing (and failing) my first DDD in a tourney. I came back in the Loser's Bracket.

ban that stage against DDD lol
and you should abuse Dair in that matchup

I was young and naive back then (less than a month ago). Now I know better.

And I now float tons more ever since I played a few Peach players online.

 

[Flamingo]

You should know not to go in the cave of immortality on the right hand side of that stage... regardless if he can infinite u there or not.. lulz

 

[rm88]

Oh, it's Dedede time! ^^ I personally second Dedede. I prefer him when I face Snake, ROB, and to a lesser extent Marth. He has vertical recovery, range, strenght and weight, so I think he compliments Peach quite nicely. Also, chaingrab is ****! I love the giant penguin. Maybe the only drawback is that he's not exactly awesome against G&W.

 

[PrepareYourself]

Infinites are legal?

 

[Vik]

edit : ignore