[Secondaries for Peach] Currently Discussing: Yoshi

[Reapd]

Ike has1 similarity with peach. They both have trouble getting around the stage.

 

[Razmakazi]

Ike has1 similarity with peach. They both have trouble getting around the stage.

even though peach is slow on the ground her glide-tossing, float helps her out tremendously. wouldn't the fact that certain actions like holding a turnip and or mixing up short hops and floats heights threaten people and put them on the defensive so getting around the stage would be much easier for peach than for ike. =o

 

[Kinzer]

You know, I really think Sonic's learning curve isn't THAT big. I think the trouble about mastering Sonic is knowing when to use each attack, and being able to remember all his ATs (there's a lot of them, Sonic could have his own alphabet for crying out loud...), but that's just me. They really so much as ATs as they are tricks you van do with Sonic, like Spinshot, Homing Attack-Cancel, etc.

Uhm... on topic (you should've made a thread, I don't read Ashunera's Library enough...), Ike is an okay character... granted he's not easy to learn, but he's more or less straightforward with his range and power. Very little ATs that can actually be used for Ike are known, so again just knowing when to use each attack is needed to master Ike.

If you like to have a character with major power and survival (he's heavy, but his recovery is... a little bit below mediocre) and keeping your distance but within striking range, then Ike should be an alright secondary.

 

[deepseadiva]

This thread is actually coming along very nicely. Nice job Prep.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

As a learning curve, Ike is pretty straight forward. His lack of ATs make him simple, and the only real challenge is to maximize the basics against characters with Plenty of ATs. I don't think it's the best secondary in the world since Peach relies on Glide tosses and semi float cancels and such, so playesr that chose Ike secondary will have a time getting use to the switch.

 

[Praxis]

luc shud be fine since he's better at fighting mk/snake/maybe marth than peach is. idk how game and watch. the thing about luc is the learning curve though but w/e that'll take care of itself if you keep playing w/ him i guess.

Peach deals with most of Lucario's bad matchups (ROB, Olimar), but Lucario loses to Marth and unfortunately shares one of Peach's worst matchups (G&W). Peach covers Lucario well, but Lucario doesn't really cover Peach that well. :/

I don't know how he does against Falco though. If he does well against Falco, he might be an excellent CP. He does do better against MK and Snake than she does, which helps.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Ike essentially is the complete opposite of Peach. Recovery, KO power, Range...

I'd give Ike a 2 if we look at all the other characters rated. He doesn't really cover Peach's bad matchups but he's nothing like Captain Falcon and he's certainly a lot better than people give him credit for. You'll have to practice with Ike because he isn't like Peach

 

[Kinzer]

I don't think it's the best secondary in the world since Peach relies on Glide tosses and semi float cancels and such, so playesr that chose Ike secondary will have a time getting use to the switch.

But the SBR says he's suppose to be a good CPer guy!

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

But the SBR says...

...You call yourself a Sonic main?

You make me sick. Get out of my sight


Yea but the problem is that any character is useless as a CPer guy if they can't do well against a bad match up Peach has
Which reminds me, who exactly does Ike do well against that Peach doesn't/is neutral with?

 

[PrepareYourself]

Ike does slightly better against Luigi, Game & Watch and Zelda.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Hmmm...well depending on his bad match ups, I would give Ike a 2 or 2.5. Doing better vs G&W is a nice bonus

 

[PKNintendo]

Untrue. Lucario is not good against Ness. Their neutral.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Overall, I give Ike a 2.2/5

He's average, but the benefits isn't all too much better than what Peach can pull off on her own me thinks.

 

[PrepareYourself]

I think we are good on Ike for now.

Now discussing a flat THING.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Game and Watch is a good character so he's going to get a reasonable score. I hear he doesn't do very well vs MK and Snake though

 

[PrepareYourself]

4.5.

Similarities: Light and practically cloned recovery.
Comparisons: Much more powerful.
Good against: Most everybody except MK and Snake.

Anything else?

 

[Praxis]

4.5.

Similarities: Light and practically cloned recovery.
Comparisons: Much more powerful.
Good against: Most everybody except MK and Snake.

Actually...

G&W's good against everyone but MK, Snake, and Marth, and only goes even with another G&W. At least he beats Falco. But doesn't that mean he fails to give an advantage on 4 of the 5 most common Peach trouble matchups?

Ironic, considering that Game & Watch has the advantage on 90% of the cast, but that 10% left over happens to be characters Peach disadvantages to.

 

[Praxis]

Ike does slightly better against Luigi, Game & Watch and Zelda.

Peach has a slight advantage on Zelda, I personally believe a slight advantage on Luigi but it might go neutral, and Ike is still disadvantaged to G&W. Learning an entirely new character just so you can go from "heavy disadvantage" to "average disadvantage" isn't exactly worth the trouble.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Peach definitly has a very slight advantage over Luigi IMO. Aerial clanking is irritating though...

 

[Razmakazi]

i've been trying to play luigi vs. u peach mains but my biggest problem wigi's range. everytime i get close slaps harass me so hard. ;o

 

[deepseadiva]

Surprisingly, it seems Game and Watch would be a 2.

 

[ExCeL 52]

I agree Meno ...

 

[PrepareYourself]

Now discussing Mama Luigi. We are approximately one-third done with the crew.

 

[MrLuigiman]

Uh.... ok, well i can tell u some stuff about luigi

 

[PrepareYourself]

Please do.

 

[MrLuigiman]

ok, well Luigi's up-b is crazy powerful when used properly (you probably already knew that) He is lightweight and has less gravity than most, His Fireball is spam able, but wont work that well in a gun fight, He is faster than mario, but his less traction causes him to slip more than everyone else. His are fairly powerful and can be executed fast, I prefer using his side-smash and down-special, he has great recovery with 4 different moves that can help, he is bad against characters like meta knight (Duh) and strong against most characters lower on the tiers.

 

[Praxis]

Who are his worst matchups? How does he fair against MK, G&W, Marth, Falco, and Snake?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Isn't Luigi one of the 5 characters that can get infinited by DeDeDe? (Although I might be mistaken and if I'm not, I'm pretty sure he can get out of it)

Luigi has much more KO power than Peach and arguably more versatile recovery. Unfortunetly, I can't see him doing well vs any of the characters Praxis mentioned above :/

 

[MrLuigiman]

He is not great against Snake, He is about even with G&W (when im luigi) He can beat falco but fireballs wont help much there, I have never done good against marth ever, I'd say marth is his worst match-up, if marth is spamming his down-special.

 

[LuigiKing]

EDIT: Woops.

 

[deepseadiva]

Luigi and Peach at first glance actually seem like they would be a great team.

Thanks for the info..., but we're discussing how Luigi would work as a secondary character - not as a doubles partner.

 

[Yonder]

As I think of it for Luigi:

Luigi is actually overall, a little on the slow side aside from his aerials, Mario is faster mostly. His killing power is amazing for a middle weight and he has quite a few set ups to hit with his up B. His side and up B specials are more like high risk great reward type. When recovery, he's fairly good at it, but is in trouble when he loses his up B. Matchup wise, anyone at a signifigant amount of range more than him, destroys him. Anyone with a significantly less range, he destroys. He kills the lower tiers, good with the middles, and top/high, are average. He's good against Wario, Falco, AND Snake (aside from Snake's up tilt, he's somewhat easy). His only completly bad matchup is Meta Knight, everyone else he has troubles with, it's not too bad.

 

[PrepareYourself]

What would be a fair number rating? 4 sound fair? I mean, you won't get a character that can cover MK and Marth AND Snake anytime soon.

 

[Yonder]

I'd think a four sounds good. 4.5, more likely a 4 though.

 

[Praxis]

Luigis, I have to question your sources :/ I checked the Luigi matchup guide, and it lists Metaknight, G&W, Marth, Snake, and Falco all as bad matchups, with MK and G&W horribly so. And I've been told by Luigi mains that G&W is a pretty terrible matchup.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174824

Luigi does great against Snake and Falco,

The Luigi boards still list it as a disadvantage though. Are you saying Luigi has an advantage on them? Or that Luigi just has less of a disadvantage than he does compared to MK and Marth?

Maybe we could try Luigiking/Praxis team combo action in some friendly doubles at I.E.

Sounds fun

 

[LuigiKing]

Wow how did I manage to turn this into a doubles thing? I must have read wrong somewhere along the way... wow I feel like an idiot. Haha. Seriously... what the heck -_-

Oh and our matchup guide is so horribly outdated and filled with ******** information its not worth looking at anymore. Its really that bad. From my tournament experience (which is sadly more than 99% of the Luigi boards), I would put Luigi at 40:60 to Snake. Its not bad, it really isn't if you know what you're doing. You can easily have an advantage with the right counterpick stage though (green greens, brinstar, norfair). Falco is bad if you're playing on FD. Otherwise, you can't get chaingrabbed, you can combo him well (falls fairly fast), and you **** him in the air all over the place. I would give Luigi a 55:45 on Falco, I really would. But the rest of the Luigi boards will probably ignore me and say otherwise.

People on the Luigi boards like the whine about GW a lot. Now Marth and MK are really **** matchups. A good Luigi cannot win against a good Marth or MK... or at least its very difficult. D3 without the infinite is fine though. He can't regularly chaingrab you and most people seem to be banning the infinite by now anyway. Thats what I got. This time on topic...

Also, Luigi has very advantageous matchups against Diddy, Wario, and Olimar. He breaks even with Lucario, Kirbs, and Pika. Not so great against Wolf.... As far as high tier goes.

 

[Razmakazi]

hmm...i thought wigi ***** wario badly. Anyway it seems like peach can cover for diddy, wario, oli, and those he breaks even w/ but i dun think he's a good 2nd then if he has marth/wolf/mk problems like peachy would even though marth and wolf really aren't that bad. =o

 

[PrepareYourself]

Similaritities:
Comparisons:
Good against:

Someon fill this out for me -_-

 

[Praxis]

hmm...i thought wigi ***** wario badly. Anyway it seems like peach can cover for diddy, wario, oli, and those he breaks even w/ but i dun think he's a good 2nd then if he has marth/wolf/mk problems like peachy would even though marth and wolf really aren't that bad. =o

No, he said Luigi does WELL against Wario, Diddy, and Olimar.

I would put Luigi at 40:60 to Snake. Its not bad, it really isn't if you know what you're doing.

Exactly the same as Peach IMO

Yeah, Peach & Luigi seem to share the same good & bad matchups. We're both disadvantaged to MK, G&W, Snake, Wolf...at least Weegee covers Falco though. The degree of disadvantage may vary (maybe Luigi does better against G&W), but it's still disadvantaged.


Also, I'd like to suggest we look at DK as a secondary.

PrepareYourself- keep it like it is now, but take out Snake and lower the number to 3.

 

[Razmakazi]

whoops i thought it said disadvantageous. lol.

and yea, go DK, that's my secondary that I'm working on. ;D