[Secondaries for Peach] Currently Discussing: Yoshi

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

*points at Edreese*

I can see why Ness is Edreese's secondary. Super good spacing with a good Fair for both characters

I've tried using Ness before and his second jump throws me off now and then quite horribly when I've been playing Peach for ages

 

[Rainy]

Ness' grab game is a nice addition. His aerials are fun and solid, and he's jus tall around fun to play with. Some disjointed hitboxes ftw. But in my experience with him I've had trouble with Ikes and Marths.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Ness is a decent secondary to Peach. I only use him cuz I really love him and his playstyle. He has a ton of KO moves, which is a sharp contrast from Peach, and he's good against people who play campy ( besides snake) so I bust him out against campy players, especially campy lucarios.

 

[Rainy]

I've used Ness as a counter to Pikachus because I can't handle Pika's ******** hitboxes with Peach for some odd reason >_>

 

[Praxis]

Yeah, Smash DI is when you Di with both sticks

Not true. Though you can use the C-stick as well if you wish.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60218

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Ness has similar moves like Peach, so he's easy to pick up. They both have freakin' awesome Fairs, Nice Bair, but I think what makes Ness most similar to Peach is that Ness and Peach are the only characters that can reall do effective C-jumps, due to the properties of their secondary jump.

Ness has better Killing moves, while Peach has better damage building techniques. Though ATs are a bit different from Peach to Ness, like shutterstep, effective foxtroting, etc. While they are similar, their match-ups work well with eachother as Ness's strengths possibly balances Peach's weaknesses.

3.6/5

 

[PrepareYourself]

Looks good Prepared.

Though I, and I know at least a few others on here, use Peach exclusively. I'll pipe in when we get around to Ness and Olimar. My "funsies" characters.

Currently Discussing: Ness

 

[Masky]

If Peach's worst matchups are MK, Snake and Marth like the OP says then Ness would not make a good secondary since he shares the same worst matchups (plus G&W)

 

[AvariceX]

Yeah, Ness' worst matchup without question is Marth (even without the 'grab release' that so many people don't realize doesn't actually work). MK, Gdubs and Snake aren't as bad but they're still disadvantages. I'm not sure how well Peach does against D3 but Ness does rather well against him, and goes about even/very slight disadvantage with Falco.

Ness' learning curve honestly isn't that high. When Brawl came up I played Dedede exclusively and eventually picked up Ness because Ness honestly felt like a better character to me even with very little experience (I'm not saying Ness is better, just that my Ness is better than my D3). Ness has a ton of AT's but only a few of them are really useful (mainly pivot PK-Fire) so there's not a whole lot of research you really have to do. I've been playing a virtually AT-less Ness up until very recently and I've been doing ok.

The thing that will take the longest to learn as Ness is PKT/2 mindgames. PKT recovery is very, very easy to aim once you understand it, so the next step is tricking people into getting caught in your PKT. You want to catch people in the tail of PKT because it holds them in place and guarantees a PKT2 if you aim right. There's never actually a time when you can't PKT2 someone caught in your PKT tail in Brawl because of the way PKT2 trajectory works in this game: You fly in the direction opposite the part of your body that the PKT hit, regardless of what angle you hit yourself. e.g. If you are aiming down/left and hit yourself in the foot you will fly straight up. This is what will take time to learn.

The best advice I could give to any Peach who wants to second Ness is probably just "talk to Edrees" .

 

[thesage]

Edrees just spams fair though lol.

I used this combination in melee since it covered all the matchup I had problems in with both characters. In brawl, since Peach isn't top 5 anymore, nor is she easy to learn, there's really no point in using both of them. It's really hard to learn both of their playstyles since they are both "high learning curve" characters.

 

[deepseadiva]

Currently Discussing: Ness

Oh, hey lookie there. Heh... heh...

OKAY!

So Ness. He's one of my "secondaries." I'll have to admit, while he does have some wildly different aspects compared to Peach, choosing him mainly to deal with match-ups won't get you far. As has been said, the high tiers are as much as a hassle as usual - with the exception of Falco.

What you do with Ness as a secondary is counterpicking him against playstyles. His magnet shuts down a lot of spam. Not by absorbing everything, but by simply having the magnet - campers like Lucario, Pit, Fox, Falco, etc. - all instantly slow down on the B button. Camping being something that can annoy a Peach to no end, Ness is a potential instant fix.

Another good point to having Ness on the back-burner is his amazing KO ability. If you're finding it harder than usual to KO an opponent, Ness and his bthrow is a godsend. Choose him against those opponents you ****, but just can't get a final fair on.

Learning him... I think will vary. I've used him lightly since 64, so the workings of PKT aren't to much trouble for me. But overall, I don't see a noobie having much trouble beyond that. Both Peach and Ness excel in the air, so the bread and butter won't be too hard to get down. The recovery, the higher jumps, and the projectiles will take some time to "master" though.

In the end, Ness would be something good to have - nothing to rely on. I'd give him a 2.5/5.

 

[_clinton]

If Peach's worst matchups are MK, Snake and Marth like the OP says then Ness would not make a good secondary since he shares the same worst matchups (plus G&W)

Meh...Marth isn't that bad...really if anything MK, and Snake seem 6-4 for Ness at the most (where as Marth in my book seems easier then MK, and Snake)

G&W is pretty *** but I'm in question on issues of how Ness handles these match ups compared to Peach...

What I mean is...Peach's worse match ups seem somewhat easier for the Ness boards...

Of course I feel Peach and Ness overall have very different air games and styles...they just don't feel the same at all really...

 

[PrepareYourself]

Discussing Snake.

When I play Snake, I find myself SH Dairing as an attempt to rack damage

 

[Sky`]

IMO FALCO IS THE BEST SUB.
Srs.

 

[deepseadiva]

= = :embarrass = =

So it goes MK as worst, Snake is least?

IMO it should go:

= = :embarrass = =

IMO FALCO IS THE BEST SUB.
Srs.

He lacks an advantage against Marth, which is kinda important. Otherwise, I agree.

 

[PrepareYourself]

= = :embarrass = =

Is GaW that bad?

I'll change it anyways, I didn't really know what I was doing

 

[BentoBox]

IMO FALCO IS THE BEST SUB.
Srs.

No Sky, Mk is the best sub. Get it right.

So it goes MK as worst, Snake is least?

IMO it should go:

= = :embarrass = =



He lacks an advantage against Marth, which is kinda important. Otherwise, I agree.

Marth's only disadvantageous matchup is against MK (60:40 iirc), so you won't be finding any effective solution for him. And Snake really isn't that hard...

By seconding ZSS (which is supposedly her best complement), you'd have to learn a character with a very large l.curve just to have a slight advantage over G&W and 50:50s against MK and Marth? Honestly, if you're not going to second MK, Peach seems pretty self-sustainable to me.

And Vik, there is much more to Peach's aerial game than her d-air. I still don't understand why G&W is ranked as her worst match-up =/ MK can up-b through our d-airs too, btw... Regardless, Marth is my hardest match-up by far ;_;

 

[Eddie G]

I don't know, I guess that because I played a good handful of characters at a high level in Melee and was always switching how I had to play on the fly, switching around in Brawl is not a problem for me. I can go directly from Peach to Ness to Marth and play very well with each one. I guess I'm just used to switching on the fly like that, which is a plus lol.

 

[Sky`]

So it goes MK as worst, Snake is least?

IMO it should go:

= = :embarrass = =



He lacks an advantage against Marth, which is kinda important. Otherwise, I agree.

Falco isn't that bad against marth.
Just cause he gets chained at 0 Percent. Don't get grabbed.
Then the matchup is even, if not better for Falco.

 

[PrepareYourself]

[Secondaries for Peach] Currently Discussing: Snake

Currently Discussing: Snake

Discussing: Snake

Snake

Snake

Snake

Snake

Snake

lol

 

[BentoBox]

Does good vs GW, Marth, MK and Falco. zomg we has a winnaz~

 

[PrepareYourself]

Do we know any more?

 

[BentoBox]

He wears tights.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

How sexy, I'd tap that.

 

[Morrigan]

[Secondaries for Peach] Currently Discussing: Snake

Currently Discussing: Snake

Discussing: Snake

Snake

Snake

Snake

Snake

Snake

lol

what's so wrong about discussing previously seen characters? >__>

 

[_clinton]

Similarities: Light. Both pink. Trouble killing. Good horizontal recovery. Good aerial game.
Comparisons: Lighter. Not hot. More trouble killing. Worse in most aspects.
Good against: No one that Peach has significant trouble with.

Any comments?

Dude...JP's Fsmash is a better KO move then most of Peach's KO moves...She has a great DACUS as well...and a good Jab to grab set up somewhat...with the 2nd best running grab in this game (guess who has the best running grab IMO? ^_^)

 

[BentoBox]

kk quitting peach for JP

cya later

 

[PrepareYourself]

what's so wrong about discussing previously seen characters? >__>

It's not wrong, I just want to...

It's not wrong. nvm

How sexy, I'd tap that.

Me too

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Dude...JP's Fsmash is a better KO move then most of Peach's KO moves...She has a great DACUS as well...and a good Jab to grab set up somewhat...with the 2nd best running grab in this game (guess who has the best running grab IMO? ^_^)

Hmmm...I don't remember Jigglypuffs F Smash being that strong and it's not the fastest of moves

It's all very well saying she has a great DACUS and a good jab grab set up (Somewhat? Peach already has an excellent jab game) but that isn't going to change the fact that Jigglypuff is a bad secondary for Peach

In other news, Snake is a very good secondary it would seem

 

[PrepareYourself]

We are now discussing Bow Zer.

 

[Player01]

unlike peach he can kill easily and has the ability to withstand a lot of punishment. i would say his up air is like peachs fair, both being their strongest aerial.

cant forget boozers OoS upB/shield grabs.

he does have a hard time against spammers and lacks a good projectile though fire breath is very good if your oppenet gets stuck in it.

dont know how well he covers peachs bad matchups but as for a rating id say a 3/5. but maybe thats because i like boozer so much.

edit: crap almost forgot about klaw hopping. i guess you could say this is similar to floating in a way.

 

[~Zack~]

i am not saying people who use peach are cheap!
i just think peach in general is cheap V.v w/ the float ability
the ppl i play who use her, over use that WAY to much

 

[Player01]

i am not saying people who use peach are cheap!
i just think peach in general is cheap V.v w/ the float ability
the ppl i play who use her, over use that WAY to much

lol dont think this is where you post about something like this but maybe i could help. i take it you use lucas. if floating is really your only problem then you should try short hop pk fires. even hyphen up smash could catch some peach's off guard. but seriously this cant be the main reason you think peach is cheap.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

i am not saying people who use peach are cheap!
i just think peach in general is cheap V.v w/ the float ability
the ppl i play who use her, over use that WAY to much

...Hmmm...there's a lot more 'cheap' stuff out there

You can jump up and try to knock Peach out of her Float by using a projectile for example


Bowser is wierd to use if you only play Peach. It'll take a while for you to adjust imo
Match up wise...I know there's something about him being ok vs MK but I think it's 60:40 for MK which is the same for Peach. It might be 55:45 for Bowser but someone would have to confirm that for me

Other than that...I can't think of anything Bowser excels in. He gets trashed by DeDeDe though because of the infinite

 

[ExCeL 52]

i am not saying people who use peach are cheap!
i just think peach in general is cheap V.v w/ the float ability
the ppl i play who use her, over use that WAY to much

....
10mainmarth's

 

[ExCeL 52]

Bowser was my second main in brawl... I found him pretty easy to pick up but hard to master... I dont see how he would be good for a second on Peach because he gets owned by the same people Peach gets owned by.. And he is a bigger target.

 

[_clinton]

Hmmm...I don't remember Jigglypuffs F Smash being that strong and it's not the fastest of moves

It's all very well saying she has a great DACUS and a good jab grab set up (Somewhat? Peach already has an excellent jab game) but that isn't going to change the fact that Jigglypuff is a bad secondary for Peach

JP's Fsmash is about the same as far as KO power goes as Kirby's is...along with the Usmash...Dsmash is a gimp KO move (how it knocks you) Fair is a KO move as well (so you have even more common ground with JP)

JP's Fsmash and Dsmash are slower then Kirby's by a couple of frames...but the Dsmash serves a different purpose and the Fsmash has more range...

I think they have a lot in common for how they play...only things are more "extreme" with JP (the whole dies about 30% sooner then Peach (who has such great living power right? ^_^) has to do with that)

 

[Blistering Speed]

Bowser is wierd to use if you only play Peach. It'll take a while for you to adjust imo
Match up wise...I know there's something about him being ok vs MK but I think it's 60:40 for MK which is the same for Peach. It might be 55:45 for Bowser but someone would have to confirm that for me

Other than that...I can't think of anything Bowser excels in. He gets trashed by DeDeDe though because of the infinite

General consensus is 55:45 MK's favour.

A few things Bowser excels at off the top of my head:
- Overall heaviest character in the game (No.1 for horizontal knockback resistance, A close No.4 for vertical).
- Best grab release in the game e.g. here's what he can do to Peach to bring the point home.
From Air release:
Grab release fair
From Ground release:
Grab release regrab
Grab release Side B
Grab release ftilt
Grab release jab
And Peach gets off lightly compared to most.
- Possibly the best OOS option in the game in Fortress (invincible frames 1-5, hitbox frame 6).
- Ridiculous KO power.
- One of the best defensive games out of the cast.
Edreese is using Bowser as a secondary now aswell I think, so I'm sure he'll tell you some good stuff.

 

[BentoBox]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7IZSNqfZNI

He goes 45:55 against MK, 45:55 against Falco, 40:60 against G&W, and 40:60 against Marth.

 

[Praxis]

Can we do Olimar next per chance?