[Secondaries for Peach] Currently Discussing: Yoshi

[Xyless]

Infinites are legal?

His chaingrab isn't an infinite unless there's a wall (~300% for one round of CG'ing) or a heavy character.

Ice Climber's is much more effective yet takes more skill.

 

[rm88]

Dedede can infinite Mario, Luigi, Samus, Bowser and DK if I recall correctly.

 

[Razmakazi]

D3 ***** and is def a solid 2nd. Just don't use him vs. falco though. =o

 

[PrepareYourself]

King Dedede (0/0)
Similarities:
Comparisons:
Good against:

Who wants the honors?

 

[AAP]

D3 certainly would be a viable secondary, he has very little playstyle similarities with peach. Best i can think of is his dair is good for racking damage. He does help to fill in some of peach's weak match-ups, his chaingrabs ****. Overall i'd say he's as viable a secondary as DK if not better.

 

[PrepareYourself]

King Dedede (0/0)
Similarities:
Comparisons:
Good against:

Who wants to fill it out (because Prep is lazy)?

Fixed. Someone knowledgable?

 

[deepseadiva]

We should be asking the other character boards to contribute. Just a little post in one of their threads usually brings in a good poster or two.

 

[CRASHiC]

Dededee and Peach boy share an excellent aerial game, Dededee's bair having high priority, speed, KO potential, as well as a wall of death potential.
The big difference in Dededee is the amount of lag and his ability to ko at 35.

 

[PrepareYourself]

After a long sleep, the Secondaries thread is now discussing Falco!

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Lasers and Chaingrabs. Is a top tier...sounds like a good one to me

I think he does well against Wolf (heavies in general though) due to chaingrab ---> spike

 

[Razmakazi]

falco can go toe to toe w/ mk, snake, marth, does better vs. gdubs than peachy does, and horribly gays wolf.

that being said he's rly just good vs. all those top tiers/high tiers that and give peachy trouble as well as do just as well vs. some than she can when she does go even (like D3, ROB, Wario).

 

[Kataefi]

He's extremely light, fast falling and has a dangerous recovery though, which a lot of moves can intercept. I find him quite a risky character against those who escape the chaingrab and manage to deal with his lasers semi-well, which thankfully are not the top tiers.

He also lacks approaches, but lasers make up for this ^^

 

[PrepareYourself]

If I recall correctly, was Bair one of his kill moves?

 

[Teran]

If I recall correctly, was Bair one of his kill moves?

Yes it is. However it gets used quite a bit so it might not be that fresh. As a killer, it's best used offstage/edgeguarding and whatnot. Still, good Falcos can keep it relatively fresh with lasers among other moves.

 

[Denzi]

falco can go toe to toe w/ mk, snake, marth, does better vs. gdubs than peachy does, and horribly gays wolf.

that being said he's rly just good vs. all those top tiers/high tiers that and give peachy trouble as well as do just as well vs. some than she can when she does go even (like D3, ROB, Wario).

MK has a 55:45 advantage (which isn't much considering that he's MK). Falco probably has a slight advantage over Snake, but there are a few Snake players who disagree. Marth is definately one of Falco's hardest matchups (unless you're SK92); 60:40 Marth's advantage. G&W is 50:50 against Falco, and we have a 65:35 advantage over Wolf. ROB has a slight advantage over us.

If I recall correctly, was Bair one of his kill moves?

Yes. If you're looking for kill moves, Falco's best onstage option is probably sh laser -> DAC.

 

[Razmakazi]

tyz for the corrections and input ;D

 

[Denzi]

Her's a link to the Falco match-up thread.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167202

Note that some of the matchups on the chart are out of date. G&W is actually around 50:50 (he might have a slight advantage), IC's is actually 65:35 them, ROB might not be that bad of a disadvantage to us, And we beat out Snake by a bit.

When I said that MK had a 55:45 advantage, I forgot to mention that that only applies to an MK who planks.

 

[Vlade]

Falco does well against most of the top/high tier cast, or at least goes even with them. I'm pretty sure peach mainers would want that.

As for similarities and comparisons... I can't really think of anything at the moment.

 

[deepseadiva]

Falco sounds like a really good option...

Outside of the Marth matchup.

 

[M@v]

Falco owns. That simple. Falcos only really bad matchup is MK. He is slightly disadvantages vs Marth and kirby. I personally think he also has trouble vs Zelda/sheik. Falcos two main weaknesses:

-Mediocre recovery, something peach excels in
-So-so killer. He can kill about as good as peach can, if not a little better, so its sufficient, but not great.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

one thing on dk, he has an admitted advantage on marth (we got some of the marth boards to say it, do you know how hard that is? the MARTH boards) and is 50/50-55/45 on gdubs, those seem like problem matchups for you guys

 

[PrepareYourself]

Switching DK to 5/5 and putting Falco as 4.5?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

When you fight a DeDeDe, tell me that DK is still a 5/5

4.5 sounds good for Falco. He's pretty beastly

 

[itsthebigfoot]

@ rickerdy, why would you cp a dk on ddd? thats just dumb, this is for secondary, not main, you alreaady have a character to avoid ddd

 

[PrepareYourself]

When you fight a DeDeDe, tell me that DK is still a 5/5

4.5 sounds good for Falco. He's pretty beastly

This.

@ rickerdy, why would you cp a dk on ddd? thats just dumb, this is for secondary, not main, you alreaady have a character to avoid ddd

Rickerdy is not dumb. You misinterpreted

I'll keep DK at 4.5 then

Edit: Now discussing Pika.

All I can say is that if you can't SDI properly, you're screwed against Pikachu...

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

@ rickerdy, why would you cp a dk on ddd? thats just dumb, this is for secondary, not main, you alreaady have a character to avoid ddd

Peach only has a 50/50 match up with DeDeDe though

A character that gets absolutely ruined by a character that only goes even with Peach is not a perfect secondary. Aka; does not deserve a 5/5 because that would mean the character did better in all of Peach's even/bad match ups. I know DeDeDe is even with Peach but if a Peach player can't simply cope with fighting a DeDeDe because...well I don't know they can't, using DK as a secondary/counterpick won't get you anywhere, infact it'll make things worse

I'd say otherwise if DeDeDe wasn't a popular character, a top tier or if Peach had a huge advantage against him

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

OK, so pikachu is a very versatile camper. He can camp with T-jolt (Neutral B) and can combo really well with FF Fairs and uairs. ALso, his 2 most notable advantages are his CG on most of the cast, and his extremely quick QAC. QAC is when you quick attack on the ground at a groundward angle (Down, down left, down right) and you get your second jump back. It is a very fast way to get across the level. Since peach and pikachu can both combo really well, it seems like a good secondary in that way.

The 2 main problems with pikachu are his weight (he is lighter than peach i believe) and his short range. His longest ranged attack is his F-smash (but it has a sweetspot anyway but the tip of it). His d-tilt has a wall lock, and can slide you backwards if you hold back afterwards.

His D-smash is somewhat like peach's melee D-smash. It's good, but can be DIed out of quite easily. His thunder is great for killing off the top, and pikachu is really good at edgeguarding. His recovery is phenomenal and very unpredictable, and his overall gameplay is some of the best. However, it takes a long time to master the comboes and QAC possibilities, so be ready for countless mess ups and practice mode sessions mastering the timings for auto-cancels, QAC, and specific techs like his footstool combo.

Similarities: Both lightweight, great at comboing, good aerials, and overall good speed.

Comparisons: Pikachu has lots of options in practically any position. His recovery vastly surpasses peach's. Comboability are both really good. CG racks % on most of the cast. People that pika can't CG, you can F-throw to u-smash for about 30%

Good against: DDD, Snake, Sheik, Fox, Low tiers, Falco, DK, and Wolf (Or at least better than how peach does)

 

[Xyless]

I still don't know about this Smash DI thing. I'm hoping it doesn't need a C-Stick, otherwise I am le screwed.

Also, after missing my opportunity at playing against Anther in a recent tournament, I can still say that watching him, Pikachu would be a very welcome addition to a Peach player. He's extremely technical, and a good Pikachu can completely ruin the Ice Climbers, as well as any other character, really.

 

[Praxis]

Bigfoot, DK does not have the advantage on Game & Watch. You're the only one who insists on that. None of the G&W's agree.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I still don't know about this Smash DI thing. I'm hoping it doesn't need a C-Stick, otherwise I am le screwed.

Also, after missing my opportunity at playing against Anther in a recent tournament, I can still say that watching him, Pikachu would be a very welcome addition to a Peach player. He's extremely technical, and a good Pikachu can completely ruin the Ice Climbers, as well as any other character, really.

Yeah, Smash DI is when you Di with both sticks

 

[Xyless]

yeah, Smash Di Is When You Di With Both Sticks

Gaaaaaaaaaaaah

 

[Xyless]

Okay, well, now that I've looked into it, I guess it's not as bad as I thought. At least with the Pikachu Grinder. Just have to do a shake smash up and smash the stick up.

 

[PrepareYourself]

Now discussing Jigglypuff.

 

[Morrigan]

More like Jigglycrap

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Oh dear...

I don't think Jigglypuff has anything Secondary worthy in the slightest. Unless she does better vs G&W or MK (I think it's 60:40 MK like with Peach) I honestly can't see her getting more than a 1 or 1.5. Realistically, I can't see you losing with Peach and winning with Jigglypuff

 

[deepseadiva]

More like Jigglycrap

I like Jigglypuff. ;_;

Though I've never really touched her - but I like her overall concept.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

She has better air mobility, but Jiggly puff really pales in comparason to killing power, which in Peach, is a really bad insult. I vote a 1.2/5

 

[PrepareYourself]

Similarities: Light. Both pink. Trouble killing. Good horizontal recovery. Good aerial game.
Comparisons: Lighter. Not hot. More trouble killing. Worse in most aspects.
Good against: No one that Peach has significant trouble with.

Any comments?

 

[chandy]

Jigglypuff is gd in the air like Peach and IMO is similar to Peach except worse in most aspects. For tourneys she probs wudn't be a gd secondary but Peach users won't find it too difficult to use her. 1 - 1.5 IMO
Lol this list is rely similar to the tier list XD (still thinks link shud be better )

 

[PrepareYourself]

Alright, I'm giving Jigglypuff 1 and Pikachu a 3.5. Sound fair?

Now discussing Ness.