Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
Do you use the c-stick or A to input the back air?
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
trahhSTEEZY
Smash Champion
it's just reflective habit cash. like i think what happens is you see which way the shine knocks them, and you instantly try to move your analog stick slightly towards them[while hitting up] before inputting the back air. that's what happened to me. all i had to do was constantly remind myself as im going for it to make sure i flick my analog stick directly up before anything else.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
falco ***** sheik
crouch cancel and uptilt defeat her.
that is all.
hi david
edit: on a slightly more serious note, i played a ton of sheiks at a tournament yesterday and beat them all handedly using mostly cc and uptilt. the only sheik i didnt beat was drephen, but i attribute that to his only two attack being grab and downsmash which conviently counter my two moves lol.
but like, thats a style thing. any non-drephen sheik gets ***** by cc and uptilt.
hi david.
crouch cancel and uptilt defeat her.
that is all.
hi david
edit: on a slightly more serious note, i played a ton of sheiks at a tournament yesterday and beat them all handedly using mostly cc and uptilt. the only sheik i didnt beat was drephen, but i attribute that to his only two attack being grab and downsmash which conviently counter my two moves lol.
but like, thats a style thing. any non-drephen sheik gets ***** by cc and uptilt.
hi david.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I would take anything I can get to have the edge vs certain players (Salty) lol.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
i meant it more like, dont just stand there crouching thats dumb.
but anytime you think your going to get hit, cuz you whiffed or in a bad position, just hold down
her entire moveset that isn't fair, grab and downsmash loses to ASDI down until unfair percents lol.
unless she spaces. But spacing beats everything in this game so that goes without saying.
but anytime you think your going to get hit, cuz you whiffed or in a bad position, just hold down
her entire moveset that isn't fair, grab and downsmash loses to ASDI down until unfair percents lol.
unless she spaces. But spacing beats everything in this game so that goes without saying.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
I use up for jump cancels, and full jump up aerial.
jpobs, where are you using uptilt in the sheik match up? I don't see how that move (or falco) **** sheik and since I get ***** in the match up, it'd be cool if you explained that a bit more.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
lol
i'll answer that
if you can answer this:
"why do you ask such stupid questions lol?"
That just means you need to hit me up then obviously. =p
JPOBS
Smash Hero
obvious stuff:
replace shine with uptilt in combos at all percents above 20%. for the most part, shining sheik above 20% isnt all that useful cuz it sends her too high for you to effectively link fj/dj dairs into more shines because she's out of hitstun before she reaches the ground and can jump out, fair out etc.
uptilt on the other hand doesn't launch very high can you can get easy dair->uptilt combos. Or you can just uptilt 2-3 times in a row until they DI it correctly, then chase with dair-> more uptilts. also, uptilt just des more damage than shine so thats good.
slightly less obvious things:
sheik has 0 priority below her.
when she's above you, either by choice, force or manipulation, you can stick a uptilt in her way and it will beat whatever she is trying to do. So say you're on FD and you approach with lasers. She full/sh oos and tries to attack, just turn around and uptilt and stuff her.
or say you're on battle field and she's under a platform. you laser approach, a typical response of hers is to jump oos, waveland on the platform towards the centre of the stage (where you are lasering) and fall down with a fair or something. turn around uptilt here.
when you're being techchased, say you tech away and the sheik chases you, when you stand, try to turn around uptilt. If the sheik is slightly slow on her chase she will run right into it and get *****. If she was perfect, well you were going to get grabbed anyway. but the bonus of this is that if the sheik tried to be funny and run up to you and paused trying to bait a spotdodge or roll (cause they know they were slow), she will still get hit by the uptilt lol.
Basically, try to fit in uptilt in as many situations as possible. its specifically useful vs sheik because of combination of her poor downwards priority and relatively bad aerial maneuverability.
watch PP vs KK, and especially the losers finals set. he uses it a TON.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Whenever dair connects solidly, utilt generally has better follow-ups than shine. especially when you're unable to use platforms to continue the combo.
If you're able to get underneath sheik, utilt is amazing.
Falco/sheik is pretty even. Falco has a hard time directly fighting sheik, but sheik has a hard time getting in on Falco, and doesn't have any good, reliable "combos" on falco until unfair percentages. Most of her game on falco is how well you're able to anticipate Falco's techs, and edgeguard him.
good looks
yea im bout to watch the losers set
and yea i wasn't wondering about utilt in combos but just during neutral positioning how you can use utilt to gain the advantage in certain situations because i realized i never uptilt vs sheik unless i'm comboing.
yea im bout to watch the losers set
and yea i wasn't wondering about utilt in combos but just during neutral positioning how you can use utilt to gain the advantage in certain situations because i realized i never uptilt vs sheik unless i'm comboing.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Why does sheik need to combo falco? She just has to grab him and not stop touching him <3
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
she cant reliably tech chase falco on reaction, which was why I said most of her damage comes from trying to correctly anticipate falcos techs and call bad approaches with moves like fair.
stuff like tilt > moveset doesn't start comboing falco until at least 40, and not 'til even higher if the Falco holds down.
In other news, you should totally unblock me since I have a butt ton of questions for you.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
sheik can definitely reliably techchase falco.
its just hard.
its just hard.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
You just contradicted yourself jpobs.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
something being hard and something being reliable aren't contradictory notions.
Something that is hard but reliable is something that works as long as you can actualy do it. like Double shine waveshining with fox. They cant escape a double shine waveshine anymore than they can a regular waveshine, its just hard as balls and useless, but its completely within your control.
Something that is unreliable, is something that will only work if your opponent doesnt know what to do, but you have no control over it at all. An example would be Falco downthrow->downsmash opponents. Its unreliable because all your opponent has to do is tech it and you miss, but sometimes you can catach them asleep at the wheel, but whether it works or not is completely out of your control.
sheik's techchase is 100% in control of the sheik player, so it is very reliable. It is just hard.
Something that is hard but reliable is something that works as long as you can actualy do it. like Double shine waveshining with fox. They cant escape a double shine waveshine anymore than they can a regular waveshine, its just hard as balls and useless, but its completely within your control.
Something that is unreliable, is something that will only work if your opponent doesnt know what to do, but you have no control over it at all. An example would be Falco downthrow->downsmash opponents. Its unreliable because all your opponent has to do is tech it and you miss, but sometimes you can catach them asleep at the wheel, but whether it works or not is completely out of your control.
sheik's techchase is 100% in control of the sheik player, so it is very reliable. It is just hard.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
What I meant was because it's extremely hard to tech chase falco on reaction with sheik that it isn't something that you can rely on. I'm using reliability as a synonym to consistently.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
oh...
well idk, when i've played great sheiks like KK and drephen, they successfully do it pretty much every time anyway.
well idk, when i've played great sheiks like KK and drephen, they successfully do it pretty much every time anyway.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
I'd be willing to bet that a good potion of that is anticipation, rather than legitimate reaction.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
i've considered that too
it would explain a lot of things about my troubles with it
it would explain a lot of things about my troubles with it
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Idk, you don't have to do it forever. You just have to do it until like 40, then you can do kewl combos and there's no point in grabbing anyway.
Wait, why is this turning into the sheik boards. PP, give someone advice =P
Wait, why is this turning into the sheik boards. PP, give someone advice =P
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
tilt doesn't combo if falco ccs until really really high percent. if falco is in the air and gets caught by a tilt at 40, or doesn't CC then yeah, he gets hit by silly rapemode stuff.
Niko45
Smash Master
Pretty sure he's talking about dash attack. Sheik dash attack starts comboing around 40.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
sure, if you don't crouch cancel.
Jake13
Smash Lord
shine to upb to take m2ks last stock? PP good ****! i did not think that would have worked on shiek =P
I didn't either until he was floating above me from the uptilt, and I just sort of did it lol. I don't even shine to up-B that much anymore haha.
Hey I'll take it though, that combo got me super juiced hahaha. =p
Hey I'll take it though, that combo got me super juiced hahaha. =p
porc
Smash Journeyman
Yo Dr Peepee I might have a tip for you. I just watched your sets vs KirbyKaze, and you seem to always DI his up-throw away from him. Then he f-tilts and shiz.
I think it's a good idea not to DI those throws 'cause then you can shine when you fall back on him. Then either it works and you start a combo, either Sheik shields it, and then you only have to re-jump and get away. I don't know if somebody talked about it already but here are my 2 cents...
Also, since this is a thread where YOU give advices, I would be really interrested to hear your thoughts on this set, and especially game 2&4 where I have more troubles : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzn5NRO2qqk
Thank you in advance
Also, GREAAAAAT job for ROM3 dude, you really pulled out something during this tournament !!
I think it's a good idea not to DI those throws 'cause then you can shine when you fall back on him. Then either it works and you start a combo, either Sheik shields it, and then you only have to re-jump and get away. I don't know if somebody talked about it already but here are my 2 cents...
Also, since this is a thread where YOU give advices, I would be really interrested to hear your thoughts on this set, and especially game 2&4 where I have more troubles : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzn5NRO2qqk
Thank you in advance
Also, GREAAAAAT job for ROM3 dude, you really pulled out something during this tournament !!
Yyyup, no one told me how to actually deal with Uthrow yet(I have much to learn about Sheik lol...didn't know how I could have found that out either), so cool haha. Thanks man =)
I'll watch that and critique in just a bit.
I'll watch that and critique in just a bit.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
I dont know if its possible not DI and then shine out, that seems like it would never work, especially considering they would be able to uptilt long before you got out of hitstun.
However i know what you can do is DI such that you hit the edge platform slide off and have no stun. if you want specifics, you should ask unknown522 on how to escape via that method cause KK never upthrows him for that reason. you could also verify if "no DI shine" is legit, but i doubt it very highly
However i know what you can do is DI such that you hit the edge platform slide off and have no stun. if you want specifics, you should ask unknown522 on how to escape via that method cause KK never upthrows him for that reason. you could also verify if "no DI shine" is legit, but i doubt it very highly
Okay, so I'll start with game 2. Since I'm doing 2 games, I might gloss over a little more. We'll see.
4:02- Utilt isn't gonna connect at such a low percent, it's better to just get the shine out(which means Dair'ing closer to him I think) or just hitting with a Bair and tacking on some good percent+maybe a chance to keep the combo going.
4:10-Wait a little longer before trying that Ftilt so you don't get Fair'd and you can react to the DJ if it happens.
4:19- Retreating Dair is no good from that far away. Make sure you fully commit with a move or try to avoid it in this matchup unless you're spacing on Marth's shield or he's on the edge or something lol.
then that next stock you should have grabbed(shield grabbed on that first Fair) more.
5:09- reverse Dair to Dair kill!
5:18- Better punish! Fsmash or Dtilt would be best I think.
5:36- You always predict Marth goes to the edge. Just try to react to/watch him a little longer before making a decision in the future.
5:42- Approaching DJ Dair is almost never worth it lol. DJ'ing aerials like that puts you in a very vulnerable position due to your limited horizontal aerial mobility.
5:54- FH reverse Bair when you're invincible? Nah man, try to get that combo at that percent and circumstance or at least do a Bair that is more likely to hit. also, the following jab wouldn't have been worth it(usually never is unless it sets up for an easy edgeguard/killing aerial).
5:58- Don't challenge Marth from so far away, he can usually react and avoid it. Also, shield grabbing when Marth is above you like that doesn't work.
6:08- The roll Marth always baits. Try to keep your head after getting hit and seeing if he'll still actually come in on you then or if he's just waiting for a defensive action.
6:10- Rushing Marth after he hits you doesn't always work. Or, if it was going to, you'd have to be a little quicker about it. You had time to set up pressure/approaches after that Fair ended I'm sure.
6:20- Just gotta be faster getting there, or better at recognizing Marth's jumping speed or something.
Game 4....
10:05- Know your Uair follow ups. His % wasn't quite high enough.
10:17- I've never liked just Fsmash'ing vs Marth because of things like that happening vs you getting some decent % and maybe an edgeguard(unless Marth's % is higher obviously). If you're gonna Fsmash, maybe make sure Marth is close enough first?
10:27- I suggest Bair'ing Marth at this point since you've fallen off and gotten edgeguarded this way twice.
10:43- If you hadn't DJ'd(WL'd instead) there you might have had a chance at hitting Marth.
11:21- Waveland off the platform to do that next time.
12:24- Maybe work in dash shines or laser shines.
12:56- Always going in right after you hit his shield with a laser. Sometimes it's better to just chill after you do that and bait his Fair OOS and then punish.
That should do I think.
Edit: Unknown if you see this I'd love to hear about ways to DI Uthrow and **** lol.
4:02- Utilt isn't gonna connect at such a low percent, it's better to just get the shine out(which means Dair'ing closer to him I think) or just hitting with a Bair and tacking on some good percent+maybe a chance to keep the combo going.
4:10-Wait a little longer before trying that Ftilt so you don't get Fair'd and you can react to the DJ if it happens.
4:19- Retreating Dair is no good from that far away. Make sure you fully commit with a move or try to avoid it in this matchup unless you're spacing on Marth's shield or he's on the edge or something lol.
then that next stock you should have grabbed(shield grabbed on that first Fair) more.
5:09- reverse Dair to Dair kill!
5:18- Better punish! Fsmash or Dtilt would be best I think.
5:36- You always predict Marth goes to the edge. Just try to react to/watch him a little longer before making a decision in the future.
5:42- Approaching DJ Dair is almost never worth it lol. DJ'ing aerials like that puts you in a very vulnerable position due to your limited horizontal aerial mobility.
5:54- FH reverse Bair when you're invincible? Nah man, try to get that combo at that percent and circumstance or at least do a Bair that is more likely to hit. also, the following jab wouldn't have been worth it(usually never is unless it sets up for an easy edgeguard/killing aerial).
5:58- Don't challenge Marth from so far away, he can usually react and avoid it. Also, shield grabbing when Marth is above you like that doesn't work.
6:08- The roll Marth always baits. Try to keep your head after getting hit and seeing if he'll still actually come in on you then or if he's just waiting for a defensive action.
6:10- Rushing Marth after he hits you doesn't always work. Or, if it was going to, you'd have to be a little quicker about it. You had time to set up pressure/approaches after that Fair ended I'm sure.
6:20- Just gotta be faster getting there, or better at recognizing Marth's jumping speed or something.
Game 4....
10:05- Know your Uair follow ups. His % wasn't quite high enough.
10:17- I've never liked just Fsmash'ing vs Marth because of things like that happening vs you getting some decent % and maybe an edgeguard(unless Marth's % is higher obviously). If you're gonna Fsmash, maybe make sure Marth is close enough first?
10:27- I suggest Bair'ing Marth at this point since you've fallen off and gotten edgeguarded this way twice.
10:43- If you hadn't DJ'd(WL'd instead) there you might have had a chance at hitting Marth.
11:21- Waveland off the platform to do that next time.
12:24- Maybe work in dash shines or laser shines.
12:56- Always going in right after you hit his shield with a laser. Sometimes it's better to just chill after you do that and bait his Fair OOS and then punish.
That should do I think.
Edit: Unknown if you see this I'd love to hear about ways to DI Uthrow and **** lol.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
PP, someone told me that you dont ever use c-stick.
confirm or deny?
confirm or deny?
I use it for falling Uairs, and that's it lol.
I don't recommend it at all. XD
I don't recommend it at all. XD
otg
Smash Master
Do you use Z? That's the real **** right there.
Nah I don't use Z lol.
I like that A button.
I like that A button.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
im paralyzed without c-stick i odnt know how you do it.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
now that i think about it PP, the fact that you only use A, is that why u fair so much, accidently trying to do other moves?
or are you just a baller like that?
or are you just a baller like that?