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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

JPOBS

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he didnt miss any edgeguards.

it was the illusion of missing edgeguards by allowing pp back on stage only to kill him with dair->upsmash->upair :awesome:
 

Falcinho

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I was obviously speaking about the times when PP got onto the stage without getting killed by some NTSC combo instantly
 

KirbyKaze

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I just froze I guess

Didn't think about proper Falco edgeguarding procedure as clearly as I could/should have

The result was a few things here and there that were ridiculously hot

But I also wound up missing a ton of really easy ones that I probably wouldn't have missed normally
 

Niko45

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Just seemed like a few times you bothered to grab the ledge when you didn't need to and could have just FF'd through or falling bair'd through the ledge and that extra time cost you.
 

Niko45

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I love the commentary btw it's like "man, I thought KK was good at tech chasing. I'm not impressed."

Later on "Alright...nvm he's mad good at tech chasing"
 

KirbyKaze

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me too

but that's

not really relevant to this thread

sorry ruby but my heart belongs to niko

and beard!mogwai

and several others
 

FoxLisk

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PP missed a ton of edgeguards too. Not just against KK. He spent both games against jman lasering him off stage and letting him grab the ledge. It was really surprising, at Apex I thought your edgeguarding was getting a lot better and then you were missing easy ones at RoM3. Were you just playing as safe as possible because of nerves or something?


nah he's bull****, one thread hes bad, the next he thinks he plays like a sexy beast

:3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtiI2Uptpc0

flaco ditto advice? i got like one advicez.
you are the cutest puppy!

your shield pressure is faulty, although since SK92 isnt punishing you for it, go ahead and continue.
When your opponent has grabbed ledge, don't go for hard predicts. early on you just stand on stage and throw out an fsmash and he just waits and illusions through your lag. just stand like... a little more than one fsmash away from the ledge and wait or shl. it's extremely difficult for someone to get past you if you're standing there without taking damage. (beware of edgehop platform waveland on yoshi's, though). Oh, and since he seems to jump back -> illusion on a lot, you might wnat to know that utilt beats illusion whichever way you're facing and usually combos into bair to knock him back off/kill him.

your use of uptilt is interesting. you seem to throw it out when he's lasering through you. im not sure why he keeps doing that, but it is very effective against him, at least, and you capitalize reasonably well off of it.

cute finish to the first match :)

2nd match is hard to comment on. here's the sort of general things I see: sk92 almost always has laser control. you need to be more aggressive about taking laser control, and try not to approach when you don't have it. it puts you at a disadvantage. I've noticed recently some pros just fullhopping away and using platforms for a while when they can't get laser control on the ground, look into that. I'm just starting to try to work it into my game so I can't help you much with it, but it's something to try.

at around 3:45 you took laser control, and he had to jump up to the left platform and come down. you ran far enough away that he couldnt hit you with any aerial, and you shielded. You should have shot a reverse laser from that position. it would have maintained laser control; instead you sacrificed it. You somewhat mysteriously got it back because sk92 jumped out of your way, but he could have easily just lasered you there and taken control. you lose it again by misspacing your way into falco's foot, but **** happens, just be more careful.

4:00 is a classic position. you have him at the edge, you have laser control, and you're running towards him. he has almost no options from here. however you overcommit and let him back onto the stage. you should have gotten to the point where you're outside of any of his oos moves but can laser him and waited for him to commit (to either a roll or a fullhop, probably) and reacted to that. alternatively, most mid-level players will roll in when under pressure at the edge, so you could have shot a laser and then dash danced, waited for him to roll in, and shine->***** him.

at 4:13 you probably should have just grabbed. or ran up and waited. waiting is pretty **** in this game, if i haven't given that impression yet :p Here's why: he was in lag from a whiffed grab. you did not have a way to get there in time to punish him with anything. So all you can do is wait while he's in one of the ****tiest positions and punish his escape. a grab would have been good because he was very likely to shield. In that position, I usually buffer a roll simply because most people expect spot dodge or shield and buffer roll escapes the punishes for both of those. since people can do that, it's a good idea to just run up and get in good position and wait. or just simply retake laser control.

I think in general pokemon is a bad stage for how you play. you play very aggressively, and PS lends itself to a campier, control-based game. Platforms are an important part of your game, too; your combo game is better on platforms than elsewhere from what I've seen, and PS doesnt have good platforms for falco's combos.

I don't have time to critique the rest... I guess if it matters to you I can do it later tonight or tomorrow or something, but I hope what I did here helped, at least!
 

Dr Peepee

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@Foxlisk: Yeah I don't fully know how to edgeguard Sheik. I'm hoping I'll get something from the videos unless you have anything you'd like to touch on specifically.

Also vs Jman I was okay with him grabbing the edge sometimes because it meant he wouldn't get back on the stage(which I was stopping him from doing/scaring him from doing well enough). Other times he side B'd and I didn't think he'd make it back because of the TV size and he did.....LOL I'm dumb.

I'll focus on that more in the future.
 

Falcinho

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Don't get me wrong i love KK's sheik (no lil bit homo), but seeing Falco not getting killed everytime he gets off-stage looks weird to me =S (totally not exaggerated)

Maybe it's because i got ***** by Amsah, Adam and Ice so hard =(
 

ranmaru

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Switch FC
SW-0654 7794 0698
Falco has like a 6 frame jump ... it's pretty weird getting used to it so just practice and keep in mind to just wavedash slower

Your questions are pretty vague ¬.¬
Haha yeah thank you. It is weird getting used to.
 

Jake13

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With shiek edgegaurds I feel there is nothing better than just hogging the ledge until after the upB.

If they go for the ledge, easy edgehog.
If they don't, most of the time you can landdash to them\airial off the ledge to get them in their lag.
But most shieks go for the ledge anyway. Its their safe haven

^ that ledgegaurd applies w/ any char v shiek

Kk: there were a bunch of times in your set w/m2k where you could have just stayed on the ledge and edgehogged, but you jumped off thinking m2k wouldn't go for it and he gets back to the stage FO FREE. Or when he went straight up and you still got off lolol
 

Rubyiris

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@PP: Your edgeguarding vs Sheik wasn't that bad, just remember to dtilt when Sheik is at 120% or higher. She dies earlier off the top than off the sides.
 

Rubyiris

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Downsmash is really, really easy to CC tech, and can be done until obscenely high percentages. Sure, it covers more options, but if they're good at CC teching (re: every sheik should be able to do this by now), you're actually going to put them in a more favorable position.

This is why Armada would Nair Amsah instead of going for the easy dsmash edgeguard. Nair sends them at a trajectory that's near-impossible to consistently CC tech at high percentages.
 

Dr Peepee

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Yeah I shouldn't have Dsmashed, but I think I was just seeing if I could get away with it.

I'll ease up on it against Sheiks in the future for sure.
 

JPOBS

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With shiek edgegaurds I feel there is nothing better than just hogging the ledge until after the upB.

If they go for the ledge, easy edgehog.
If they don't, most of the time you can landdash to them\airial off the ledge to get them in their lag.
But most shieks go for the ledge anyway. Its their safe haven
if you let fox and falco UpB onto the stage they have almost 0 lag, its impossible to do anything in time to punish them.

the only way o edgegurd them is to either hog them outright or hit them before they get to the stage.

this is why its largely a guessing game when spacies recover high, because if you jump of the ledge and try to aeral, many times you will miss when they sweetspot it fro mtop, which means in order for you to hog them, it requires that you flat out guess and just stay there. but if they DONT go for the edge, they wil lanf onstage and get away for free if you just try to hog them.

People see m2k edgeguard and gimp spacies and think its so easy. Spacies have ridiculously god mixups, edgegarding a good spacy is hard.
 

FoxLisk

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PP: yeah, he basically covered it. the only thign to watch out for is when they fake going on stage and then go sraight up and fastfall to the ledge. this is a solid mixup and you mostly just have to see your opponent's patterns and punish them by guessing which they're going for each time. my only real advice is that even if you don't think you can get an edgeguard, grab ledge instead of just lasering. sheik's landing lag from her up-b is so high that even if they get on successfully you're fine if you mess up. if she can land on stage with her doublejump is the only time not to.

against jman: that's a pretty reasonable answer. you definitely did keep him out of the center and punish him well, that's just harder and less likely to kill him than an edgeguard. it's certainly a solid choice though, and less risky than going for an all-or-nothing edgeguard.
 

Jake13

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if you let fox and falco UpB onto the stage they have almost 0 lag, its impossible to do anything in time to punish them.
I meant the other way around, falco on shiek

I guess reread it from the other point of view =P

Sry for the confusion lol
 

KirbyKaze

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What the Falcos don't realize is that D-smash can be okay if Sheik's close the edge because even if they CC tech it, a neutral tech does no good because the momentum will kill her, and tech rolling in is so slow Falco can actually D-smash again before her roll finishes.

But don't tell PP that.
 
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