PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Dr Peepee]

We define competitive spirit differently, I'm afraid.

S'all good though.

 

[Rubyiris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep8Vn4sUo5A

training for dont go down there jeff. help me get better.

 

[JPOBS]

@PP: ya thats what i figured this all boiled down to. coolbeans

on another note, i just realized you can "stumbleupon" directl from the botton of any page on this site. ****.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Ah I see cooper still can't short hop.

Very good then.

Carry on.

To beat that Sheik really consistently all the time with no effort, just run under him when he full jumps and U-tilt/Shine OoS/CC Shine or Uair/Nair/Bair under her moves a lot. Prioritize hitting U-tilt after like 20 if you can, otherwise take whatever you can get. Uair becomes good after like 35.

Be generally less stupid vs her recovery. You're doing unnecessary things or timing things terribly or risking timing things terribly when you don't have to. Or making really stupid decisions like F-smashing the wrong way when she poofs being you on the ledge.

After Dairs prioritize U-tilts. Shines suck for comboing Sheik after low percents.

Stop F-smashing randomly. You're not smart enough to be able to predict/read/whatever his habits and you keep missing them.

 

[Rubyiris]

short hopping with sheik is the hardest thing ever lol.

thanks for the advice.

just as an fyi; i was trying to find videos where i lost. went through several hours of footage and those happened to be the only times i did lose.

What do I do vs sheiks ftilt? i get ***** by it alot

 

[DJRome]

all of your logic is flawed

This first paragraph, i dont see how it goes completely against the competitive spirit. "competitive spirit" as I imagine it is the thrill of beating someone at their best, when you are at your best. If you happen to know something tht could potentially increase the capability of the opponent, but you are without the information intentionally, then i'd say THAT goes against the "competitive spirit" because you are effectively intentionally limiting competition by preventing your opponent from being able to perform better.

Translate this into asking midmatch. Tell me how it LOGICALLY is any different than what you're saying. It's no black and white matter. which leads to. . .

Its no different than if i play a complete scrub in melee, and he asks "how do oyu move so fast" but i refuse to tell him about l-cancelling and wavedashing, just for the sake that i can continually beat him. Its not "competitive spirit" to hold him in his current state of ignorance. True competitive spirit would be encouraging him to rise his skill, and then beating him anyway.

As i said, therein lies the difference. Plus, encouraging =/= telling.

the second statement i disagree with simply because I personally dont see how "the metagame will evolve anyway", and you didnt really explain how.

Because you would be in a position to know.

Also, I understand the reasoning that this is a competition and its not your responsibility to make your opponents better, however not doing so on the basis of "competitive spirit" is flawed in my eyes, but I have no qualm with the actual decision, just the reasoning behind it.

lol

 

[Druggedfox]

You can always CC sheik's ftilts, and when you're too high damage and you get hit on the ground, you can CC tech them...

alternatively stay out of their range, and DI away if you ever get hit by one. But hey, I like CC.

 

[KirbyKaze]

At one point in my life Bam reflexively CC F-smashed each and every one of my F-tilts when they failed to knock him over.

It's hella gay.

I miss when Bam was good :'(

 

[Rubyiris]

You can always CC sheik's ftilts, and when you're too high damage and you get hit on the ground, you can CC tech them...

alternatively stay out of their range, and DI away if you ever get hit by one. But hey, I like CC.

i'm usually in the air, so i don't think cc is an option.

unblock me on aim and I'll upload some matches where I get ***** by ftilt.

 

[Mew2King]

At one point in my life Bam reflexively CC F-smashed each and every one of my F-tilts when they failed to knock him over.

It's hella gay.

I miss when Bam was good :'(

CC d tilt is better

 

[Rubyiris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_wwyfX_haY new matches vs a much better Sheik player.

These would be better for gauging what I need to work on.

I'm trying to force out silly bad habits like risky, and unecessary movements.

 

[KirbyKaze]

CC d tilt is better

not always

though it is usually better

 

[ChivalRuse]

D-tilt combos Sheik well.

 

[KirbyKaze]

hitting her offstage into an edgeguard loop is often good enough

and if they're f-tilting they'll probably di f-smash bad

 

[OverLord]

I think people here is missing PP's point.

He never said that helping is not legit, the reason why he finds it odd (I guess? 'cause that's why I feel it odd too) is that IF I ever would be a top player, THEN I want to figure out how to beat people on my own, because it's more challenging.

IMPORTANT: Find it odd =/= not legit. I wanna make it clear.

That's competition for me. I play to get better, but I try to figure out stuff on my own, beacause I want to be good thanks to my own skills.

I can understand advices given on random people 'cause they are too far away from current metagame, but I find odd too that a top player asks another one some advice, 'cause I really think he can figure it out on his own. Not mentioning that's even better 'cause it's more challenging.


That doesn't mean in any freakin' way that M2K is not competitive and blah blah and stuff. He's too good, and he actually did what I said in the last 3-4 years with the Marth metagame.

 

[Shaeman111]

1. Anyone can figure it out on their own.
2. It doesn't depend on the person's skill whether or not they figure it out quickly enough.
3. Advice simply gets a lot of unnecessary spent time behind you, because as a community, it's best to help each other out for the sake of becoming amazing. Why spend 5 days learning how to reverse SHL when your friend found it out a couple days ago?
4. Spawn more overlords.

 

[OverLord]

Actually I prefer spending 5 days on my own, because this way it would be my own achievement. Asking my friend or someone else would feel to me like using a guide to finish a Zelda/FF. Not my style.

But no problem with people giving/receiving advices, that's cool, it just isn't the way I like for myself.

 

[Fernandez]

I need advice vs fox, I'm so bad vs him =/
I seriously dunno how to aproach cuz fox can always jump instantly oos with full jump and if you approach wrong with shorthop aerial you get daired or something and that leads to lots of damage combos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYGBeK3KehI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc_E5Uw9lJk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9TikooJXiw&feature=related

I know I messed up edgegaurds and I know what to do against it next time, I just need some tips on on stage beating Fox, I can only think of more predicting full jumps next time but that's not really something I can rely on

any one?

 

[JPOBS]

all of your logic is flawed



Translate this into asking midmatch. Tell me how it LOGICALLY is any different than what you're saying. It's no black and white matter. which leads to. . .


As i said, therein lies the difference. Plus, encouraging =/= telling.

there are many more factors involved in asking questions mid match, such as talking being generally distracting to play, which decreases the skill of both player. I dont know, your example is dumb so i wont even address it any further.

Because you would be in a position to know.

oooh burn.

Do you always just accept anything people in authority say at face value, without even questioning it yourself?

If everyone thought like you, we'd still be under the assumption the Earth was flat

Also if you actually don't understand the difference between agreeing with a conclusion but disagreeing with a premises (hence your "lol") then i dont even know what to say to you.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

Actually I prefer spending 5 days on my own, because this way it would be my own achievement. Asking my friend or someone else would feel to me like using a guide to finish a Zelda/FF. Not my style.

But no problem with people giving/receiving advices, that's cool, it just isn't the way I like for myself.

you do realize if this is how you actually thought, you'd be terrible at this game? you're basically implying that you have learned everything you know about this game on your own, this includes watching zero matches on youtube [they are the biggest advice in themself] and learning all the techniques yourself..

someone flat out giving you advice, would be less advice than watching matches and reading up on the techniques, which i know you've done plenty of both.

 

[tarheeljks]

who here is going to don't go down there jeff? i'm interested in doing some falco dittos. i'm still not particularly good, but am improving and would like to meet/play/chat with some fellow falco mains

i'd say it's as reasonable only if you're in it for the money, reasoning doesn't matter, if you need money you need money.

i think not helping others just to keep yourself ahead of everyone else especially when you love this game as much as you, is selfish..it's one thing to be too busy, or not caring enough to help[like mango], but this is clearly different

PP said he's not in it for the money...so he's trying to prove himself to everyone else so bad to the point where he won't help fellow good players 'possibly' surpass him? What other reasoning could it be?

jus' sayin.

i think everyone's gonna hate me for going against pp on this D:


also don't take this too serious please. i'm not trying to start a flame war, or get anyone angry at eachother. i just was discussing, certain topics interest me and i'm curious on other views so i continue topic.

idk, just don't feel it's that cut and dry even though i agree to some extent. also, pee pee confirmed sith lord , jk pp you da best

 

[choknater]

emulate then personalize <- the key to getting good at anything

the only reason im good at ic's is cuz i copy chudat and then create my own **** from there, and learning how to wobble

only reason most of us are good at falco is cuz we copied videos of pros. for some BS, for others forward, dope, zhu, shiz, pp, mango, etc.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

this argument is dumb and just boils down to personal opinion

 

[Mogwai]

every falco is a derivative of Forward's, Dope's and DA Dave's... just sayin', credit where it's due people, learn your roots.

also, choke, you'z a ****in' n00b for not listing PC in there, haha.

 

[Jake13]

every falco is a derivative of Forward's, Dope's and DA Dave's... just sayin', credit where it's due people, learn your roots.

also, choke, you'z a ****in' n00b for not listing PC in there, haha.

foo even forward gives credit to bombsoldier. 2nd the PC tho. and dope was the business.


lol and you forgot mathos. how else would any of us know how to laser spam? or that rainbow cruise is the most legit counterpick for falco (besides japes of course =P)

 

[#HBC | Mac]

mathos didn't improve the falco metagame lolwtf

 

[KirbyKaze]

PC ripped off Forward's Falco style

 

[JPOBS]

"forward, he's freaking good" clip is STILL like, top 5 combos of all time.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

lol, it's a cool combo and all but i don't think it's anything shy of amazing. no crazy techskill or mindgames. just..a nair to a shine to lasers to fsmash. the only thing that made it any different was the forward b into ledge which isn't difficult, i don't think it's possible to miss the ledge actually. that stage is like falco heaven for forward b.

oh and it's bowser D:

 

[Jake13]

PC ripped off Forward's Falco style

everyone ripped off everyone's style/nothing is new under the sun/blahblahblah

mathos started the rainbow cruise cp for falco, which is now coming back into swing w pp/jiggs matches


and idungiva*** how easy forward's combo was, till then you aint eva seen that **** before

i suck at multiquote but you get the jist

:D

 

[JPOBS]

I think you're seriously downplaying the creativity of that combo trahhh.

look how ridiculous gimpy's DI was on that shine, doing absolutely anything else would have caused forward to drop the combo cuz gimpy went so ****ing far. literally no other move would worked, not even wavedashing ooshine would have led to a follow up.

But forward had the skill/instinct/reaction time, to completely alter his decision making MID COMBO.

I've never seen something like that before, or since.

Also, like 99% of "great" falco combos arent even hard from a tech skill standpoint, cuz falco's moves lend flow so easily into one another. Only the ones which have ridiculously stupid/unnecessary techskill are hard like the ones SW does in All Systems Go. I dont think i've ever seen a combo by shiz/pp/forward/etc that i couldnt easily duplicate

 

[unknown522]

lol, I was ****** mathos at pound 3. Back when I was bad. He did beat raynex in pools at that though, but raynex beat forward in that same pool.

Also, just finished watching KK vs PP WSF at ROM 3.

Do either one of you want advice?

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

Yeah, the quick DI reaction was definitely, definitely impressive as hell. I apologize!

Though I wonder if maybe he expected gimpy to DI that way, and tried to go for a forward-b spike. but then saw how far he went and worked with it. I dont ask that in doubt of forward, hes amazing, i'm just curious as to if he did that forward B out of DI reaction like you said, or if he had planned to forward B that way after the shine anyways.

 

[JPOBS]

idk, but it was freaking badass lol

 

[Mizar]

I need advice vs fox, I'm so bad vs him =/
I seriously dunno how to aproach cuz fox can always jump instantly oos with full jump and if you approach wrong with shorthop aerial you get daired or something and that leads to lots of damage combos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYGBeK3KehI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc_E5...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9Tik...eature=related

I know I messed up edgegaurds and I know what to do against it next time, I just need some tips on on stage beating Fox, I can only think of more predicting full jumps next time but that's not really something I can rely on

any one?

I thought this was an advice thread.
Help this guy out please.

 

[Rubyiris]

People need to give respect to Axe and V3ctorman, where respect is due.

Their style is SIGNIFICANTLY different than that of the Falcos of old.

 

[JPOBS]

people love axe and vectorman, but we were talking about falcos that...well..invented falco :/

 

[Rubyiris]

They're REINVENTING. Falco.

Don't misunderstand.

Get on Arizona's level.

 

[choknater]

lol oh yah i forgot pc, he *****

im a noob for that one

i wanna get on az's level. i played axe's falco in one friendly and i did ok. not like any other falco i've played lol. killed me off the top a lot

 

[DJRome]

there are many more factors involved in asking questions mid match, such as talking being generally distracting to play, which decreases the skill of both player. I dont know, your example is dumb so i wont even address it any further.

That was my point. it is not a simple thing like u say.

oooh burn.

Do you always just accept anything people in authority say at face value, without even questioning it yourself?

If everyone thought like you, we'd still be under the assumption the Earth was flat

Also if you actually don't understand the difference between agreeing with a conclusion but disagreeing with a premises (hence your "lol") then i dont even know what to say to you.

and im not saying everyone should think like me, but i know im not in a position to say anything about that. pp would tho and im sure the forward thinkers should know that they are in that position as well. and the final lol just emphasizes how your reasoning leading to your conclusion is flawed (since i have no qualms with your conclusion) for the final irony