PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[~Twitch~]

We'll play so many dittos you'll be sick and tired of them by the end of it =D

@Cactuar

Without you... this thread just wouldn't be the same

fox dittos aaaaaaaall night.

 

[JPOBS]

PP im very interested in talking about reverse nair shine.

particularly how it doesnt have any answers (as you said), how its spacing is so special and why you can't beat it.

 

[Druggedfox]

It does have answers... you can get hit by the nair on purpose and CC it into anything. Also, if its with falco (i can't remember the frame data for fox's nair shine stuff), you could just upsmash OoS as fox.

PP's just mad

The spacing is special in that your whole back is the hitbox and the positioning for doing it is non-shieldgrabbable. Idk, PP can say more useful things, I'm lazy and haven't seen mango do it in a while since he never plays falco anymore

 

[Dark Hart]

yo I do shine turn-around nair shield pressure

I try to at least

god damn I'm to fancy for my own good

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i don't like shine turnaround when dealing with shields. i have trouble adjusting since the shine hit's the shield. idk if that makes sense, but yeah. lol

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP im very interested in talking about reverse nair shine.

particularly how it doesnt have any answers (as you said), how its spacing is so special and why you can't beat it.

At least with Fox it feels very hard to deal with directly. With Falco I think you have to play around with it more and there are things you can do to make it a lot trickier than normal pressure. It's all mixups anyway lol.

Sorry if I made it seem broken....it's just hard to deal with when Fox does it. =p

It does have answers... you can get hit by the nair on purpose and CC it into anything. Also, if its with falco (i can't remember the frame data for fox's nair shine stuff), you could just upsmash OoS as fox.

PP's just mad

The spacing is special in that your whole back is the hitbox and the positioning for doing it is non-shieldgrabbable. Idk, PP can say more useful things, I'm lazy and haven't seen mango do it in a while since he never plays falco anymore

If you delay the FF you can bait shield grabs and won't get grabbed, and if you aerial-shine on shield at that range that the reverse Nair shine works at then you won't be able to be shield grabbed regardless. Very fun to play around with. I need to mess with it more.

Good for roll baits and shield grab baits during different times basically.

I'll explain more when someone asks a question about this probably confusing explanation due to Smith talking to me on Skype. Never again will I help and Skype.

 

[otg]

I'm late to address this, but how are you guys only figuring out that utilt is broken NOW? ****'s been good forever. Mogwais been abusing that **** for years now. It made playing Doc vs him a living hell in combination with his bair spam and laser/platform camping.

 

[Dark Hart]

Fact: Falco's utilt out prioritizes Falcon's dair

 

[Mogwai]

you just mean it's faster, it actually doesn't out prioritize it it just usually comes out quicker.

funner fact, falcon's dair outspaces the **** out of Falco's utilt if they really want it. it also is about 41289789371289731289471892471289 times more rewarding because even if they trade, falcon gets to knee you and then you die.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

did he play smash sveet? he wasn't chris knorr was he?

his name was chris craig. we both went to kernodle middle school at the time

 

[stingers]

****in craig.

 

[KirbyKaze]

you just mean it's faster, it actually doesn't out prioritize it it just usually comes out quicker.

funner fact, falcon's dair outspaces the **** out of Falco's utilt if they really want it. it also is about 41289789371289731289471892471289 times more rewarding because even if they trade, falcon gets to knee you and then you die.

Wait, you mean Falco doesn't have the power to hit an U-tilt at some percent and then do a bigass combo/tech chase and kill Falcon?

 

[KAOSTAR]

Falcos reverse nair puts you in a 50/50 of getting ****ed up or seriously *****.

Its like will he bair and I use survial DI, or will be reverse nair and I use combo DI. You get baired either way, if you DI wrong you di for sure. If you DI right, ur probably still gonna die.

 

[Mogwai]

Wait, you mean Falco doesn't have the power to hit an U-tilt at some percent and then do a bigass combo/tech chase and kill Falcon?

still not as rewarding as a stomp. if it were even close the matchup would be 100-0.

 

[Cactuar]

De-sticky Mogwai's thread and sticky Dr Peepee's imo. lololol

(I'm jk. Mogwai's has a lot of useful info in the OP and randomly sprinkled throughout.)

 

[Ryan-K]

falco utilt is ridiculous
RIDICULOUS
especially againt falcon
its like the move was created for the sole purpose of overpowering Captain's muscular yet rather thin legs.
cotdamn

 

[KirbyKaze]

still not as rewarding as a stomp. if it were even close the matchup would be 100-0.

the free automatic combos aren't as good as instant death

but falco's u-tilt *****

and gives huge, free, automatic combos

and sometimes they even setup eventual death

 

[ChivalRuse]

KirbyKaze thinks highly of spacies' u-tilts.

 

[Druggedfox]

Because they're pretty ****ing broken

=D

 

[ChivalRuse]

Well, yeah.

 

[KirbyKaze]

KirbyKaze thinks highly of spacies' u-tilts.

super fast

great hitbox

enables combos

can be used to cover multiple techs on platforms from dairs

can be used as a KO move at dumb percents in a pinch

works on virtually every character




...




yeah, they suck

 

[Diakonos]

Yeah, I wish Sheik's tilts were that good. ;P

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

inb4 somebody says sheiks tilts are cc'able

falco's utilts are cc'able too!

its just nobody really ever expects them lol

 

[LumpyCPU...]

to call it a KO move is kind of stretching it a bit there...

i see your point, my good sir, and i respect it.

 

[JPOBS]

the thing about falco's uptilt being "cc'able also" is that, its mostly used as an anti air, and combo extender so rarely is the opponent in a position to cc it.

sheiks tilts suffer more from cc'ing cuz they are used far more as actual approaches and punishes on grounded opponents

 

[KirbyKaze]

blargh i was gonna make JPOBS' post but w/e

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

is it possible to crouch cancel in the air? i swear i've done it before... i might be tripping though LOL

 

[Druggedfox]

The closest thing to that is like when you DI down and you bounce off a platform while doing an aerial/other move so it makes it look like you're "CC'ing in the air" but otherwise....

CC in the air? what?

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

like my friend mexican, a DK player, sometimes short hops and ill run in and sex kick him with cfalcon, and he'll DI the first hit down, land on the ground, and he'll be able to shield.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I didn't know shiz read my thread, cool. Sup shiz <3

Also, KFC, that phenomenon is caused by them just DI'ing(ASDI or SDI I dunno which and sometimes it may not matter) the Nair downward so they land on the ground and can shield before the second hit comes out because they don't get stunned when they go from the air to the ground(strange principle that I don't understand but it's pretty interesting).

 

[mers]

like my friend mexican, a DK player, sometimes short hops and ill run in and sex kick him with cfalcon, and he'll DI the first hit down, land on the ground, and he'll be able to shield.

Yeah this is because of the fact that if you touch the ground while in hitstun, the hitstun goes away. Normally this is masked because you have to pick a tech option, but against moves like the first hit of Falcon's nair, Fox's shine, or any attack that causes you to slide off of a surface, you can see how quickly you escape the stun.

That's how SS/M2K do that thing where they jump into Fox's shine then instantly grab him.

 

[Bamesy]

its just nobody really ever expects them lol

When they do, I'm screwed... o.O
It's ALL I use... but no combos. Those, people expect. :D

 

[Deleted member]

if you're really good, you can up B fox/falco's uptilts oos w/ CF. it's decently hard though.

 

[Mogwai]

That strat's way better with Ganon. Magus always used to blow my mind with how far backwards he could grab me with Ganon's up B OoS.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3pjCtqMs_4&feature=sub

Me vs sk92 Falco dittos losers finals.

critique please

 

[Sion]

good first 2 games, trahh. not much of an advice giver, but i'll give it a go.

i think you were more on point for the first 2 games, but your punishment game needs a bit of work. you'd hit him with a dair, and the shine wouldn't come out. i saw some good dair tech chases, but a lot of the times they lead to nothing. try simplifying your tech chases and you might see some different results. decent shield pressure, but once he stops respecting it(aka rolling/grabbing), you need to switch it up. sometimes you would commit too much with an approach and he'd get away with a free roll. try zoning people into a corner with good lasers and see what kind of stupid things he'd do, like rolling, spot dodging, double jumping, etc. if you're leading, there's absolutely no reason you should force an approach. you approached a couple of times where you shouldn't have and could've easily gotten a free shine oos or a bthrow gimp.

edgeguards were good. i think you should have lasered his recovery a bit more.

i learned not too long ago that slowing it down is good. learning what your opponent is gonna do (most players don't switch up their bad habits) can lead to free shines, and most of the time, death.

other than me bashing your gameplay, your falco is working up to be pretty solid. keep it up.

 

[ViciousEnd]

You guys both need to seriously work on punishing over b recovery above the edge. That stuck out like a sore thumb to me. You also make some poorer tech chase choices at times, and are willing to go for less rewarding options over the sake of easier ones. Such as when one of you would get caught by up tilt, you would just spam it two or three times total instead of letting them drop into your body a bit and starting a much more punishing shine combo.

Also, you both kind of had bad out of shield games and pressure. When you were in your shield it seemed the only thing you did to get out was aerial or roll. Wavedash out of shield is so useful to respace yourself once the pressure is off for even a moment, and allows you once again do every non-shield restricted follow up. Neither really made an effort to beat the others pressure as well outside of grabbing and the rare jc shine OoS. Your pressure though was ridden with patterns (I suffer the same problem sometimes), and it seemed like you forgot your pressure mix ups like timing, fade away nair/dair, or jc grab out of shine.

Just my quick observations.

 

[Dr Peepee]

We have a critique thread now Trahh. =)

Hmmm since this is primarily a discussion thread now I wonder if I should start some topic.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

or you could just say that and not start some topic........

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

Kevin is gay