Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
It appears that you are using ad block :'(
Hey, we get it. However this website is run by and for the community... and it needs ads in order to keep running.
Please disable your adblock on Smashboards, or go premium to hide all advertisements and this notice. Alternatively, this ad may have just failed to load. Woops!
If plank apologizes for anything whatsoever, that will be used as evidence against him in any court. Small claims is possible, court fees really don't cost that much. The law is slow, but it'd catch up to this whole situation eventually, maybe 2 years.
I'm not sure if the community could raise several thousand dollars for him though.....
That seems unreasonable to me.
As it stands that didn't happen but what we do have on our hands could all be fixed/made somewhat better if plank decides to work something out with the winners of pound 5.
I would really like to see another plank post(which may involve everyone calming down but I hope that happens either way).
Yeah, I mean realistically probably not the thousands of dollars that were necessary. But definitely enough to make a dent. Realistically Plank is still at fault. I just feel like it's the difference of ~10k to the community vs ~10k - a few grand in donations to the hotel, plus everyone would be much less angry.
As a TO I can't imagine why anybody would try to host an event for which there was no financial safety net. Plank should have added another $40 to the venue fee (reminder: the FC series was $75 to enter and capped quickly, RIP ship of fools) and advertised free hotel rooming. Even if attendance was relatively low, from the sound of planks post this would have generated several thousand dollars. Scrub TO.
there is no legal obligation to pay the winner. since no contract was signed, he owes no money. its an understood rule that you pay the winners. plank did not steal the money
...Excuse me for my ignorance and naivety, but I was still under the impression that people would obey the RULES of the tournament they are choosing to attend GIVEN THOSE RULES. LISTEN TO YOURSELVES. If you weren't willing to pay the money to stay in a hotel room with 4 people like I stated 200 times, then don't come.
Maybe if smashers took even the smallest bit of accountability EVER it would not have turned out this way. You want every benefit in the world but aren't even willing to play your own small part.
Smashers are KNOWN to procrastinate until the very last minute and my contract was on a sliding scale of money. The more rooms rented the cheaper then venue. I did make an error, but a large part of my error was putting any sort of faith in this community to be mature and responsible. The fact that people are trying to make the argument that cramming into rooms is "accepted" and the "standard" is absolutely ridiculous. With my calculations I would've been able to pay everyone out in full EASILY with even COMPARABLE numbers to *Pound* 4. I could've STILL paid people out with the number of people who DID come if rooms weren't crammed into.
I said hundreds and hundreds of times not to do this in the thread, and due to people cramming and the no-shows which were charged to me (I feel that if people rented the hotel room and didn't cancel it and didn't show up THEY should be charged, however this is not the hotel policy on events and I was forced to cover there rooms) there were not enough rooms rented so the price of the venue was MORE EXPENSIVE. I am the one organizing the event and if you all BLATANTLY ignore what I say and just cram into rooms and this situation comes as a result of it, YOU ALL are each held accountable who participated in this as well (Ally how many people were in your room, for example?) You can't simply disregard hotel policy and the policy of the tournament, acknowledge that you disregarded it, and then ***** that because of this I didn't have the funds to pay out and I should've "expected people to cram into rooms".
How is this fair for the people like myself who DID obey the rules? There were 4 people in my room, and we all paid the full price for it. We all registered online, paid the full entry/venue fees and everything. How is it fair to us? Why am I getting punished when I didn't even do anything wrong? I feel horrible if you put me under the category of people who are "irresponsible" and just break rules. We supported your tournament by reviewing your rules down to every word, and we even spread the word about your tourney to the rest of AZ. Unfortunately most of AZ didn't have the money to go, but we still tried.
It just sux when I (and the rest of AZ) didn't do anything wrong I followed every rule, but I'm still being punished... I understand the situation, but I just want you to know that not all of the smash community is irresponsible. There were people like us who worked hard to cooperate with the rules. We all paid a lot of money to come to this, and I worked very hard for 4th place.
I guess I just wish that only the people who did wrong would get punished, and no one else. I'm really sorry it all had to turn out like this Plank I hope everything gets better quickly. Stay strong man.
I wish I did break the rules now though. I could have at least saved a good 300 dollars from the second room and possibly profited from housing people the people I had.
in regards to everyone saying that because there was no contract signed, plank is under no obligation to give them money in court...
I think thats wrong, not that I'm saying they have a court case but verbal agreements hold merit.
like if I went to mcdonalds, and ordered food, I dont have to sign a contract, mcdonalds doesnt have to sign a contract, its all a verbal assumption.
life isnt about signing contracts.
as for proof, I think there'd be plently what with this website, the hotel being able to colloborate that there was a tourney, as well as the spam load of witness's they'd have from the tourney itself.
Plank, as the Tournament Organizer, it's your job to ORGANIZE THE TOURNAMENT. And yes, this includes accounting for all the ****-ups that everyone else is going to make. And yes it's beyond tournament standard for people to cram into rooms. Is that unfortunate for you? Yeah, but it's a rule that you can't enforce and that you shouldn't rely on gamers to follow. Newsflash: gamers are poor. If people are flying all the way in to come to your tournament, don't you think they want to save money on rooms where all they'll be doing is sleeping anyway? I've been to tournaments where we've crammed 10-20 in a room EASILY and noone cared because they slept, woke up, and then went downstairs to go play casuals. Poor planning is YOUR fault not anyone else's, so don't blame the gamers or the community for that.
in regards to everyone saying that because there was no contract signed, plank is under no obligation to give them money in court...
I think thats wrong, not that I'm saying they have a court case but verbal agreements hold merit.
like if I went to mcdonalds, and ordered food, I dont have to sign a contract, mcdonalds doesnt have to sign a contract, its all a verbal assumption.
life isnt about signing contracts.
as for proof, I think there'd be plently what with this website, the hotel being able to colloborate that there was a tourney, as well as the spam load of witness's they'd have from the tourney itself.
Mc Donalds will give you a receipt outlining what you paid for, which is why should a dispute arise (hey they didn't put my fries in the bag) you have a receipt to show how much you paid and what you paid for.
My summary and final thoughts on the whole fiasco:
The facts:
Plank did not profit from this event. He didn't even generate enough revenue to pay for the cost of the venue & hotel contract.
Part of, if not the main reason not enough money was generated was because people crammed rooms, even though plank mentioned time and time again not to do this. Because of this, the quota of rooms plank signed to meet in the contract was not met, and the prices per room were raised, and he had to pay them.
There is no case against plank, especially not one of theft, stop mentioning it.
Plank did, and has admitted to, make(ing) a mistake. He planned for more entrants than he should of, and signed into a contract that in hindsight he shouldn't of.
Information to know surrounding planks motives:
Most of what you need to know is located in planks first post regarding the issue:
After weeks of trying to get money back/barter with the hotel I regretfully am faced with informing everybody that there is not going to be any prize money at this time from *Pound*. The hotel was rented out on a sliding scale of rooms rented and that would lower the cost of the venue. I got a really amazing place in a convenient location because we expected MORE entrants. We budgeted so we would be still fine with COMPARABLE entrants. However with over 100 entrants less for melee and like 60 less for brawl, being short those funds/hotel rooms really screwed everything. I'm taking a slight hit myself for even hosting the event.
I still held some hope even through the event the funds I collected in person would be enough to at least PARTIALLY pay people out and give them SOMETHING for their performance. However so many people cancelled their rooms or no-showed the weekend of the tournament that it dropped the room rental down below the threshhold and I got charged EVEN MORE (the money I planned on paying entrants).
The place was crazy expensive but everything would've been fine with a more expected turnout. This mixed with people cramming into rooms (I saw a ton of rooms with extra people in them. More people=less rooms rented=more money I have to pay to hotel=less prizes).
I had to rent out a certain # of rooms to fulfill my contract, and once I rented these rooms I tried to bribe people to get into these rooms for cheap and use that money to help fund the tournament.
With Pound 4 being so successful and the biggest downfall being the distance of travel between the hotel and the airports, and with the new venue being right next to an airport with the venue INSIDE the hotel, along with all the promotional deals, we expected such a larger number than what we got.
This is why there was no internet at the venue and why I went out and got my own PA system for 1/5 the price of the venue PA system. I knew coming into it that prizes were going to be tough and maybe smaller but the room cancellations the weekend of the venue was really the nail in the coffin. There were over 30 cancellations the last week and I had bought out the difference of rooms (had to because of my contract) and so even with the 90 rooms I was forced to purchase it still came up short and cost even more money.
I am at least glad everyone had a good time while they were there before I had to drop this bomb..... I was really hoping it wouldn't come to this. The event was overall just not successful at all on a financial level. I really apologize again and I know it won't do justice, and I know I'm going to get tons of **** for it but there is absolutely nothing I can do at this point.
So....I'm sorry again...I never expected this and when I saw it slightly starting to happen I tried my hardest to get more people to come and to find alternate ways to make money, but to no avail. I'm probably not going to really log back in to check this much because I already know the backlash I will get and it will just make me feel worse so I'll just leave it at that.
I guess thats the best I can do as far as this post goes...... I had to let everybody know, hopefully my friends realize that this was just a horrible misjudgement/sequence of events, but I definitely do expect people to be pissed, clearly I would too, but there is nothing that can be done at this point so all I can do is say "I'm sorry" like a broken record.
If you choose not to take his word as fact, then that is on you. But the rest of us who know/got a chance to meet plank. Or are just plain thinking rationally and remembering his previous successes as a tournament host, we can see he is telling the truth here.
Addressing some of the main issues people have with planks actions:
Claiming that Plank used money that was not his to pay off his debts.
From a legal standpoint, this is not true.
My take on the issue:
What we know as 'venue fee' and 'entry fee' are only there to please us aesthetically. There is nothing dictating how the ~$60 we paid to Plank should be distributed. When you paid your cost to attend his tournament, the venue fee and the entry fee were lumped together, as they are with every tournament that has these two 'separate' fees. In most cases, the lump sum of revenue generated by both the door fee & entry fee's are lumped together, the venue is paid off, and whatever remaining money is split up between doubles & singles based on # of entrants. This is how it has always worked, and because most TO's accurately predict the minimum number of entrants they'll receive it's not an issue because the pots appear adequate.
However, in this case, there was another factor involved which was the contract Plank signed with the hotel in order to get cheaper rooms for us. This was a major factor in what caused there to literally be no money left over after the cost of hosting the tournament was paid off.
A probably more informed/educated/experienced take on the matter:
It's no surprise to me that the people who yell "stealing!" over and over tend to be those who have little to no experience running tournaments. First of all, if anything, Plank would be guilty of breach of contract, and not theft. Now it's not like Plank had 2 boxes labelled "venue payment" and "prizes" and took earmarked money from the prize box to pay off the venue. I was one of the co-head TOs for Genesis, and I can tell you that what happens is, you simply have one lump sum of money, and you have two debts. Your first obligation is to the venue. If you understand this, then you understand that it makes absolutely no sense to say there was any kind of "theft." People saying that Plank "stole" or "scammed/fooled" people apparently just make up their own story of how tournaments are run in their minds. You guys need to stop repeating your uninformed arguments over and over again, and consider the points that other people are making.
Now, what you CAN say happened is that Plank failed to fulfill a promise to pay prizes. I don't know if there is a LEGAL basis for that, but there is a moral basis. Did Plank **** up? Yes, but you have to look at it for what it is - he didn't get the attendance or rooms reserved that he expected, and that caused him to be unable to pay prizes from the entry fee money, and nothing more. Certainly something should be done about that, but again, the situation has to be looked at for what it is.
Saying that he should have made paying the winners a priority
This is all fine and dandy if you excuse the fact that there would have been some serious legal & financial backlash if Plank failed to uphold his end of the contract he signed with the hotel. The cost of paying the winners in full came out to some where around $9,500. Best case scenario plank would have been able to take out a loan from his bank for this amount and either pay the winners or the hotel with it. And as we all know loans incur interest over time so depending on how long it took for plank to pay it off he could very well have ended up paying over $11,000 dollars. If he was not able to get a loan, he would have had to of filed bankruptcy, which if you aren't aware, is (to put it lightly) not good. Apart from this, he was dealing with an established hotel, and failure to pay in the face of a signed contract would cost him more than I think you're caring to imagine.
Was it his mistake which landed him in this situation? I am prepared to say so.
Would you truly wish financial ruin unto him in exchange for paying the winners what they're 'owed'? I sincerely hope not. As far as I'm concerned, at that point in time having made the mistakes that he made, he absolutely made the right decision.
If he made the decision to pay the winners first and foremost, our little community of ~1500 wouldn't have been able to save him from the devastation that would follow. Most of us are children still in high school living with mommy and daddy, the problems he would have had to face are those that would keep mommy and daddy up at night.
Pointing out that he wasn't making an effort to reimburse the winners of his tournament.
This is something I can't refute because I don't agree with the stance he took. I can certainly understand him being upset at how quickly the community turned on him, but his mistake directly affected the same people he created the event for, and since that was his priority from the start he shouldn't let his feelings about those he let down change because a bunch of immature ignorant ******* on an internet form with no grasp of the gravity of the situation he was actually in called him a thief and threw empty uninformed threats to sue around.
Now I'm not certain of his financial situation, but I can't imagine it's much better than most of ours. And I certainly wouldn't expect him to pay 9k+ out of pocket to the winners of his tournament. But I would like to see him make some effort to compensate the winners of the tournament for coming out and putting on such a steller performance for us.
Hey guys, My name is Alex Jebailey which some of you already know. I'm the man in Charge of the CEO 2011 Fighting Game Championships in Orlando, Fl this summer.
This Situation is unfortunate because this could happen to any major event, First off Plank ran Smash for my CEO 2010 Event and he was one of the best TO's I've ever worked with in terms of efficiency, now with that said he didn't have to put any money up(He paid for the Insurance Certificate but I reimbursed him) So he didn't have any risk involved like that of his own Pound V.
With that Said I know the risk involved with securing a big venue because like most Good TO's we have a dream of putting together the best events possible to increase mainstream exposure. Now what Plank did with Pound V was put his TOTAL TRUST into the fact that Smashers would help fulfill the hotel(sadly because we are all gamers most of us are completely broke and living off of parent's money( don't deny it if you were one of 10 people that crammed into one hotel room) which is the same I'm doing with my CEO Event(Which is a $20,000 Risk for me). Not just Planks but any TO's biggest mistake is not having the capital to promise payouts and he is at total fault for not paying out what he promised to the players, but because he has shown everyone he is completely in debt all the arguing in the world and bashing won't help get everyone's money back. Not that I'm defending him(I've promised a $5000 pot for my EVO seeding games, luckily because I've won so many tournaments myself I can risk the money), but this will ruin the chances of a 5 year event of ever becoming bigger than what it was.
I've been around the Scene for nearly 15 years now and I've seen so many Organizers come and go but just one mistake no matter how successful their past records are and it's curtains for them. Granted they should NEVER promise something you can't fulfill and this issue won't come up but just realize how incredibly hard it is to do what we do for so little in return. We put together big events cause we Love bringing people together, Plank is one of those people, If he was in it for the money he would of been gone after Pound 1's success. Now he was put up against a wall financially(And life is all about money and without legit sponsors Plank had nothing to work with before the event) and he had to go with The Golden rule of life which is Survival and he's doing what's in his best interest for himself and his life otherwise this mistake will end up costing him debt for the rest of his life).
For all the people that are owed money they have every right to go after Plank until he can return something to them. All that hard work, practicing, winning for nothing, I don't care if it's just a videogame tournament even though we play cause it's fun, but if you're promised money and you don't receive it you have every right to never attend an event from someone who owes you money again so I hate for a 5 year event to disappear because of this major mistake by getting a hotel venue.
Moral of all this is, if you want to keep the competitive community alive(I used to play smash and even I must admit 10 years strong is mighty impressive and deserves merit) then you have to realize it's just like any other hobby out there, you put money in to help out TO's and their events. Think of it this way, Look at MMOs like World of Warcraft, people are paying 10-15 bucks a month to keep playing the same game. You guys just had to buy Smash Bros with no monthly fee, the least you can do is save up some money to get a hotel room and not cram 20 dudes into a room to save money) again that's not a defense to plank, but think of it on the bigger picture.
Anyways who knows if anyone I just said means anything to you guys but to sum it all up, From the outside looking in, it's a shame one of the best TO's I've ever met got himself into a very deep hole that will be impossible to climb out of. Going after a broke man won't get you your money back, it's up to the community to either forgive or just move on and hope someone else with balls can come out of nowhere and step up to the plate for something to replace POUND 5. I did that last year when a scammer completely cancelled his event, so I'm sure this can lead to an even stronger community in the future so don't let it ruin the fun that this is all about.
I wanted Plank to help out With CEO 2011 again but I know he won't want to be around anything for a long time so I've dropped his name from the thread and leave it up to Hungrybox and other local smashers to help the East Coast for some big things. This wouldn't be the first community I've helped save. So Come on down to DISNEY WORLD and enter the CEO 2011 Tournament lol http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=296882
There is nothing positive that comes out of me posting except for restarting the flaming**. I didn't post for two weeks because I was trying to WORK THIS **** OUT with the hotel and get back any sort of money I possibly could before I posted saying the situation. I didn't let people know ahead of time because this was a TERRIBLE DISASTER and I didn't get charged the final bill until the END OF THE TOURNAMENT so how do you expect me to tell you beforehand? Excuse me for my ignorance and naivety, but I was still under the impression that people would obey the RULES of the tournament they are choosing to attend GIVEN THOSE RULES. LISTEN TO YOURSELVES. If you weren't willing to pay the money to stay in a hotel room with 4 people like I stated 200 times, then don't come.
Maybe if smashers took even the smallest bit of accountability EVER it would not have turned out this way. You want every benefit in the world but aren't even willing to play your own small part.
Smashers are KNOWN to procrastinate until the very last minute and my contract was on a sliding scale of money. The more rooms rented the cheaper then venue. I did make an error, but a large part of my error was putting any sort of faith in this community to be mature and responsible. The fact that people are trying to make the argument that cramming into rooms is "accepted" and the "standard" is absolutely ridiculous. With my calculations I would've been able to pay everyone out in full EASILY with even COMPARABLE numbers to *Pound* 4. I could've STILL paid people out with the number of people who DID come if rooms weren't crammed into.
I said hundreds and hundreds of times not to do this in the thread, and due to people cramming and the no-shows which were charged to me (I feel that if people rented the hotel room and didn't cancel it and didn't show up THEY should be charged, however this is not the hotel policy on events and I was forced to cover there rooms) there were not enough rooms rented so the price of the venue was MORE EXPENSIVE. I am the one organizing the event and if you all BLATANTLY ignore what I say and just cram into rooms and this situation comes as a result of it, YOU ALL are each held accountable who participated in this as well (Ally how many people were in your room, for example?) You can't simply disregard hotel policy and the policy of the tournament, acknowledge that you disregarded it, and then ***** that because of this I didn't have the funds to pay out and I should've "expected people to cram into rooms".
Whether breaking the rules is the standard in this community or not, I do not strive for my tournaments to be the standard. When I say things I expect people to follow them, and if not, they receive the consequences.
If a player is not on time they are disqualified. If players would not have crammed into rooms decreasing the number of rooms rented, which was posted 100x more than any sort of information about distribution of the incoming funds BTW, this would have never happened. You all can not hold me to this ridiculous moral standard of putting myself into over $10k of debt because of this situation when you all cannot hold yourselves to the moral standard of honoring the request of the hotel AND of the TO.
Chibo, your post is simply not accurate. Those were only the funds distributed to the hotel. There were many external factors which change these numbers.
-Some entrants listed did not actually attend - I allowed for registration at the door and so I had extra people listed who did not show up and I never received money for. They just got disqualified.
-Some people were entered with NO venue fee/fees at all due to either helping with the tournament, registering early, etc. I had no money to pay TO's because before I realized I was going to get either further boned, I was trying to save as much money as possible so that I could pay out the winners.
-Some people won entries from other tournaments where the promotional idea was that the winners got free entry/venue to *Pound* 5.
-Refunds for setups
-Money for supplies. Paper, pens, whole punch, wristbands, nametags, labels, etc etc. Everything i need to run the tournament costs money.
-Paid VGbootcamp hotel room for helping with the event, this was agreed on upon us long before any information about prizes had come to light. Also had to pay for the Uhaul for the tvs to be carried back and forth from an hour away and the gas for each way in the uhaul.
-Paypal takes out almost 2% of ALL transactions.
-I know for the fact off of the top of my head multiple people who did not pay their spectator fee. I am too busy throughout the whole weekend to enforce these things and keep tabs on everything throughout the venue, and I know I saw multiple people who did not pay their fees.
-Various other small expenses that go into making a tournament like this happen. Helping pay for people to get rides back to airports when they booked the wrong airport, etc.
Had I have known ahead of time the attendance and that people were still going to cram into rooms, I may have made my investments differently. Coming from a community with little to no integrity as a whole, I am totally blown that you are attempting to challenge my integrity. I came at this situation apologizing in a totally mature way and what do I get in return? After 5 years of being with this community and serving them I get lynched on a cross, harrassed via social networks and on here, and overall just treated like total ****. By reading through this thread it is quite obvious that certain people do not even read my entire posts and/or are way too blinded by their ignorance as a whole.
Also everything M2K says basically is a total lie, as usual, but I figure that's common knowledge by now. I'm not sure if you really believe this stuff in your head sometimes M2K, but your ability to fabricate an entire story around a situation is.....phenomenal.
I post when I have time to read everything and make an accurate post responding to the people who I feel I need to respond to/people who even have somewhat valid points. The majority of you are ridiculous children who are just spamming the boards with impossible requests and not even reading the things I say and actually considering them, so you aren't even worth addressing.
HEY DJ ROME, remember when at Pound 4 I bought like 10-15 gamecubes off of you and btw half of those gamecubes never even worked, and did you hear a peep from me? I didn't say **** or try to get money from you because i figured you got screwed and didn't know they were broken and were just trying to help. I wish now I would've never given you that money for broken gamecubes since you are the most ignorant childish poster BY FAR of everyone in this thread, and I am 100% with everyone insulting your intelligence because it is quite obviously lacking.
I understand that I made a mistake, and whether that mistake was overstepping my bounds and trying to make something TOO great or whether it was relying on people who are, apparently, the most unrealiable people in existence it destroys me inside that I have to hurt ANYBODY in this community. That is NEVER what I wanted to have happen, but I'm glad I get to see the true faces of everybody by their reactions on the situation. I would have gladly tried to help raise the funds with tournaments or something rather than this being my last event ever, but at this point with all the threats and how negatively my entire reputation I've built over the years is now perceived, that is hardly even possible.
I've lost my patience with you jackals, I hope that you are truly happy.... I don't know why any of you who are reacting so harshly to me would ever expect that this would be an acceptable way to go about getting the money to the prizewinners. Stop being drama llamas and get out of the thread if you aren't involved or if you're going to continue to bring your retardedly errant moral opinion on the matter when there wasn't even a chance for me to make a moral decision, the funds were gone before they could have ever been used for prizes. My card had been ran days before the tournament, and they took out the amount they did, leaving me with nothing.
I am trying to post all of this so people realize it was a MISTAKE and there were a lot of factors that contributed to this happening. I could've easily just ran away from the entire problem but that is NOT the kind of person I am. I am not legally obligated to do ANYTHING for you all, I was just trying to help everyone UNDERSTAND what happened and seek advice on how to potentially help in the future since I simply do not have the funds nor do i make the funds to pay these off. Instead I get met with immediate lawsuit threats and conspiracy theories that I stole blahblahblah money. So feel free to continue to flame and be immature, rude, horrible people and undermine everything I've tried to do for this community for the past 5 years and see how far that gets you with me.
Final Thoughts:
This incident affects us all, some obviously more than others.
Plank did not 'get away with' anything. His mistakes have cost him more than any one else in this, he is suffering.
The community has taken care of Armada, he was our guest and I'm happy that we were able to resolve his problem.
M2K gets to throw another pity party for himself, but he'll be fine.
PP & Hax & Hbox have taken a positive outlook on the tournament itself and have chosen to move on, forgive and forget (maybe not so much Hax?)
The rest of us need to acknowledge the fact that the nature of our tournaments inherently comes with this risk. Any large scale event for the smash community is a venture into uncharged territory, nobody can be certain how it will turn out. The most we can do is learn from our past experiences and use them to make more informed decisions in the future.
We were right to put our trust in Plank, he had proven in the past that he's a top notch reliable TO. Hosting the largest melee tournament of all time doesn't just happen for anyone. He just was being too optimistic and thinking too large for the smash community. Many unfortunate lessons were learned from this experience, but some times things like this have to happen to keep us all grounded and humbled.
You can either choose to be bitter and filled with hate/anger over this event
Or you can choose to learn and grow from this as a smasher & as a person.
Be lucky that most of you got to experience this from the sidelines, and try to take from it all the education you can. Both plank and the players directly effected by the lack of prize money took risks here. Take what you can about preventing these risks, there are some important lessons to be learned.
This'll be my final post on the matter. I would like to thank plank once again for all he's done for our community. And apologize to him for having to hear some of the hateful things said about him by the very same community he was doing all this for. But plank if you read this I really think public opinion of you would change drastically if you made an effort to reimburse, in some form or another, the top placing people.
It's funny that people think their internet opinions on the topic matter. They don't. This thread has been done for a long time. Folks are saying the same **** over and over again. How about you stay mad but try to forget this because being angry on the internet isn't gonna change nothing.
plank took money and provided an event to an audience. that's what his case will be. (I believe) he put no prize pay outs on the front page for a reason.
anyone that has a case against him will say " I expected money based on previous events" which means nothing in court
okay, you're an idiot and clearly doesn't know how court works. It's a judge who uses his/her discretion in upholding the law, IE. if everything was as simple as contracts and what's in writing then the police/beaurocracy would handle it. Cases are brought before the judge where decisions have to be made and expensive lawyers are paid to argue cases where human judgements have to be made.
You would have a case in court against Plank, not that anybody would do it (it was stupid of Plank to rent out the nearest 5 star establishment but whatevs, course I'm not the one injured by the mistake.)
Criminals have won cases when they robbed somebody and got their leg shot off and now they can no longer rob people to feed their family. That's why in Texas they tell you to shoot to kill <<
Criminals have won cases when they robbed somebody and got their leg shot off and now they can no longer rob people to feed their family. That's why in Texas they tell you to shoot to kill <<
I've only read through about the first half of this thread, but I just wanted to reply to something.
How is this fair for the people like myself who DID obey the rules? There were 4 people in my room, and we all paid the full price for it. We all registered online, paid the full entry/venue fees and everything. How is it fair to us? Why am I getting punished when I didn't even do anything wrong? I feel horrible if you put me under the category of people who are "irresponsible" and just break rules. We supported your tournament by reviewing your rules down to every word, and we even spread the word about your tourney to the rest of AZ. Unfortunately most of AZ didn't have the money to go, but we still tried.
It just sux when I (and the rest of AZ) didn't do anything wrong I followed every rule, but I'm still being punished... I understand the situation, but I just want you to know that not all of the smash community is irresponsible. There were people like us who worked hard to cooperate with the rules. We all paid a lot of money to come to this, and I worked very hard for 4th place.
I guess I just wish that only the people who did wrong would get punished, and no one else. I'm really sorry it all had to turn out like this Plank I hope everything gets better quickly. Stay strong man.
Yeah I know I obeyed the rules too. I thought there was going to be a way to make sure no one did that. Also, you stay strong bro. It was nice playing your falco. : D
I've only read through about the first half of this thread, but I just wanted to reply to something.
How is this fair for the people like myself who DID obey the rules? There were 4 people in my room, and we all paid the full price for it. We all registered online, paid the full entry/venue fees and everything. How is it fair to us? Why am I getting punished when I didn't even do anything wrong? I feel horrible if you put me under the category of people who are "irresponsible" and just break rules. We supported your tournament by reviewing your rules down to every word, and we even spread the word about your tourney to the rest of AZ. Unfortunately most of AZ didn't have the money to go, but we still tried.
It just sux when I (and the rest of AZ) didn't do anything wrong I followed every rule, but I'm still being punished... I understand the situation, but I just want you to know that not all of the smash community is irresponsible. There were people like us who worked hard to cooperate with the rules. We all paid a lot of money to come to this, and I worked very hard for 4th place.
I guess I just wish that only the people who did wrong would get punished, and no one else. I'm really sorry it all had to turn out like this Plank I hope everything gets better quickly. Stay strong man.
AXE you are taking it the wrong way.
And Plank is not punishing you, or anyone in particular. You claim to know the situation but if you did you'd realize that none of it past signing the contract w/ the hotel was up to him.
The community let him down, as a whole, so as a whole we suffer.
I'm sure plank holds no ill will toward you or anyone who followed the rules he outlined in his thread, it makes no sense for you to feel that way.
He knows, as we all do, how hard you worked for 4th place and we applaud you for it.
Anyone who's met you or seen you post knows you are a great guy, and you truly have love for this game, and no one would wish wrong unto you.
Don't look at it as if you're being punished, because you're not, no one is. A mistake has been made, and because we all participated in the event it affects all of us.
Don't lose faith in the community, I want you at the top of your game and not missing wavedash OoS Upsmash next time so I can wreck you at 100%.
Finally finished reading the entire thread.. Gotta say this entire thing just sucks overall, a real bummer. I've been in many internet debates over the years, and one thing you come to realize is that when someone is attacked on a personal level he is going to very defensive. Furthermore when 90% of the basis for the swings at them are outright lies, and so obviously wrong, it becomes infuriating.
**** happened, and a lot of people are at fault, but everyone is directing the anger at only one person instead of everyone. Then there are those who aren't at fault at all, but are still getting screwed over.
Personally, I feel that Plank should announce that he plans to pay the winners over time. And man up if he still feels he shouldn't have to because of how badly he got screwed over. Even if it's going to take a while, that good intention can go a long way. Like someone said early in the thread, cool heads prevail. Considering the scale of this ****storm, most of the people involved still haven't been given the chance to cool off. This community may be representing itself as horrible, but you have to remember that only the extremes stand out. A majority of this community is just watching from afar, and is made up of good people. Hopefully Plank will prove himself once again to be one of those good people.
3's last post really sums up this thread well, and goes far to show the facts of this event. It's the immature slander, and dead horse arguments that make the situation so fuzzy. Only when one stands back and wades through all the **** can he find the truth of what's going on, and only then can he start to make an informed opinion about the situation.
Since I am never recognized by my forum name, here is my "nametag" so to speak:
I'm Fullmetal, from GA- and I'm a well known regional TO.
Plank is not guilty of theft- merely guilty of poor planning, or the poor judgement of expecting more of a turnout.
I host the Tipped Off series, and I can tell you nothing is more terrifying than looking at your attendance numbers and realizing they're not up to par.
I've lost collectively around 300-400$ over the course of 6 tournaments whose numbers have averaged around 90-115 people- this ranged in reason from venue expenses, to paying for damages to restaurants we went to after the tournament, and other unexpected expenses for the tourney. **** happens.
Plank put himself in a position where he could not afford to "man up" and pay for the expenses.
Would any of YOU willingly **** yourself over for several thousand dollars when thats probably more than your yearly income? I think not.
I'm not at all trying to say what he did was right, I'm just saying he isn't a thief, and many smashers would do the same thing in his situation.
Pound 5’s the case, no time to waste
Stacks been replaced (aye aye)
Who’s hidin’ dough, whose got some mo’
Who’s liable? (Plank Plank)
Got all lawsuits, got all disputes
What does not compute? (Bens Bens)
This mystery, brings misery
Pound 5’s the case (aye aye)
Is everybody ready for the gavels and juries?
Is everybody ready for the Ally fury?
Court fees worth mad cheese and things seized
Big decisions from the attorneys
I’ll be givin’ out the objections, Phoenix
Twistin’ testimonies the right way, helix
All my evidence be rock hard, Steelix
Lawyers slippin’ from the cross-examine, Felix
No checks to Quebec it’s all theft
Don’t settle now, don’t exit the stage left
Tell ‘em “Gimmie all my money back,” PayPal accept
Winners be ragin’ like they got hit by a rest
As someone who doesn't attend tournaments but has had aspirations to do so one day, I am feeling less eager to ever attend a tournament after seeing the true nature of once respected players come to light.
Also, apparently smashers spell "paid" as "payed."
You guys are stilllllll talking about this..... *sigh* I guess if you have nothing better to do.
[Collapse=Registration and Prices from the Pound 5 thread]Registration/Prices:
To ensure that everyone doesn't register at once and we have a constant flow of registrants, *Pound* is going to be implementing the same registration system we had for *Pound* 3 and *Pound* 4 with the fee increasing $2.50 each month. The base venue fee will only be $20. Venue fee will be combined with registration to ensure everyone pays.
The spectator fee includes playing unlimited friendlies.
If a player wishes to enter both Melee and Brawl they only have to pay the venue fee one time. A special button will be added for this situation.
Starting on October 1st and continuing the 1st of each month until registration closes on February 1st, the price will increase by 2.50 each new Month. This means in January registration will be $10 more.
All players who register will be delivered a lanyard with their name tag when they arrive. This must be kept on your person at all times in case there is any question on whether or not you have paid to get in. Crismas will be making these amazing name tags again.
UPDATE:: YOU MAY REGISTER AT THE VENUE FOR $65. HOWEVER, IF YOU PLAN TO DO THIS, PLEASE PM ME AHEAD OF TIME IF POSSIBLE AT ALL AND TELL ME SO I CAN ADD YOU TO POOLS! OTHERWISE LATE ENTRANTS MAY BE STUCK INTO VERY TOUGH POOLS FOR ROUND 1. *well, as tough as round 1 pools can be! [/collapse]
I don't see anything in there guaranteeing prizes to anyone. Players who placed don't have a legal argument. They should have read the fine print.
Since I am never recognized by my forum name, here is my "nametag" so to speak:
I'm Fullmetal, from GA- and I'm a well known regional TO.
Plank is not guilty of theft- merely guilty of poor planning, or the poor judgement of expecting more of a turnout.
I host the Tipped Off series, and I can tell you nothing is more terrifying than looking at your attendance numbers and realizing they're not up to par.
I've lost collectively around 300-400$ over the course of 6 tournaments whose numbers have averaged around 90-115 people- this ranged in reason from venue expenses, to paying for damages to restaurants we went to after the tournament, and other unexpected expenses for the tourney. **** happens.
Plank put himself in a position where he could not afford to "man up" and pay for the expenses.
Would any of YOU willingly **** yourself over for several thousand dollars when thats probably more than your yearly income? I think not.
I'm not at all trying to say what he did was right, I'm just saying he isn't a thief, and many smashers would do the same thing in his situation.
i disagree, he is stealing. just because others would do the same doesn't remove the thievery. he made a bad choice signing a contract with the venue. he didn't have to choose that place, that's implying that this situation is possibly gonna happen every time at any given tournament, which it doesn't ever. other TO's are smarter than that than to sign some contract with an expected amount. even plank knows smashers are slackers/procrastinators, awful choice.
i disagree, he is stealing. just because others would do the same doesn't remove the thievery. he made a bad choice signing a contract with the venue. he didn't have to choose that place, that's implying that this situation is possibly gonna happen every time at any given tournament, which it doesn't ever. other TO's are smarter than that than to sign some contract with an expected amount. even plank knows smashers are slackers/procrastinators, awful choice.
First of all, I definitely don't believe that Plank is pocketing money.
Make a mistake, accept you made the mistake, but instead of taking responsibility and doing something about it, you blame everyone but yourself and sling mud all over the community you "love so much". Screw legal accountability, what you did is flat out immoral. Challenge me on this if you want to, I'll be glad to show you why you're wrong.
Making a mistake and then saying "I MADE A MISTAKE" doesn't do **** if you don't take steps to rectify said mistakes. You made the decision to overbook the hotel KNOWING (As you stated) that people are supposedly unreliable. Unless you were naive enough to think that "Hey, maybe they'll pull it together for ol' Plank this time", you knew that room cramming and flaking would be rampant. Using that as an excuse and blaming everyone is a moot point; it's like leaving your new puppy in a room filled with your best shoes and slippers then scolding them for tearing up said shoes and slippers. You knew it would probably happen and let it occur anyway.
Yeah, it sucks that it happened. People are upset about it and they're naturally going to vent their frustrations, especially on an open forum such as Smashboards. Going ape**** on everyone because they're calling you out for owing them (combined) thousands of dollars is inexcusable. If you were in the same situation, I guarantee you would be screaming for blood as well. Instead, you're the guy refusing to do anything but cover your own ***.
Being a (former) paragon of the community doesn't give you a free pass to walk away from doing the right thing. Saying there's nothing you can do to rectify your mistake is total horse****, there are many MANY things you can do to fix your **** up, and it's your **** up alone. Placing blame on anyone else does little more than make you look like a child. Flat out, people are owed money and unfortunately not everyone is a saint like Hungrybox. You're walking away from your moral duty to fix your mistake because it would harm you personally.
To reiterate, you don't get a pass because you feel bad or because some messed up **** happened; even those with the best intentions need to make right their wrongs. Stop blaming everyone else for your mistakes and do what needs to be done to make it right.
Good **** Plank, I wanna be just like you when I grow up.
people dont run huge tournaments and bring people from across the world to hang out...
it is implied that the winners would be payed.
you cant say he's innocent on a technicality like that
people payed and understood that their entry fee would go into the pot(that would be distributed among the winners of said tournament)
people dont run huge tournaments and bring people from across the world to hang out...
it is implied that the winners would be payed.
you cant say he's innocent on a technicality like that
people payed and understood that their entry fee would go into the pot(that would be distributed among the winners of said tournament)
I've been around since Brawl's release, even hosted a tournament of my own. Nice to meet you.
You clearly forgot to read the fine print.
You know how many people are scammed because they thought something was implied? This isn't someone scamming us, but the same logic applies. Nothing was promised, so nothing is due.
"you cant say he's innocent on a technicality like that"
Innocent until proven guilty. You can't say he's guilty on a technicality like that. He didn't promise anyone anything.
Case closed.
Edit: Voodoo, you want a peanut butthurt and jelly sandwich? Oh nvm it looks like you've got one...
*sigh* Your belief that Plank is doing nothing is adorable. Silly Melee players.
i don't get why anyone tries to bring up law crap when i say he's stealing. i'm not saying 'IN A COURT OF LAW, HE'S TECHNICALLY STEALING'
no, i'm saying from a moral and realistic perspective, he was stealing, i'm not here to argue wether or not he can get away with it in court, idc about that.
there is no FINE PRINT or anything involving loopholes around here because people generally have some heart. if we're getting as technical about it as you are, we might as well have every tournament entrant sign tons of forms and such stating that they're competiting, with TO's signing aswell, but we don't, because we're a COMMUNITY
as much as i don't care about the legal side of it;
you realize that legal obligations are made when people pay someone to enter something widely spread and known as a tournament, whether or not things are signed? There's thousands of entrants that can testify against plank saying they entered this knowing it was a tournament. I honestly think people do have a case, if they wanted. im not suggesting it, just saying it's not as unlikely as you're making it.
Even if we can all agree that it makes sense to pay the big company first, Plank's responses have been disgusting. He doesn't even seem to care that he mislead people about the entry fee and in many cases straight up lied.
Common sense should tell a TO not to overspend and try to turn a tournament into disneyworld or something. If you don't have it, don't try to spend it. Like 400 smash nerds are going to care about how fancy the hotel is when they will be spending more than half the time in the basement. It was just plain stupid of him to run such a huge risk in the first place. I guess assuming any one of us had been placed in a situation (though i think other TOs wouldn't run a risk like that) we would pay the big company first. But, the honorable thing to do is to try to make things right with the people you screwed over to save yourself.
I don't think its right that the community will now have to clean it up for him even though the attendees already showed up and paid in money to the winners. Now its time to pay the winners again because they let a cowardly thief be the middle man. I hope things turn out alright for the people financially affected and I hope Plank gets what he deserves one way or another.
Aside from the word thief being slightly overdoing it imo, this post is pretty much spot on, especially the first part. Things would have been much different if Plank would have said he is going to do everything he can to at least pay the travel expenses of those who won... or anything similar. I mean jeez do SOMETHING, whether you got screwed over or not. Regardless of what are really facts and what people are taking as fact, plank took the easy way out of this one. And I still believe that if he were to have paid the hotel with a credit card and payed out the winners (at least something to make it worth their while), that the community would have come together to help him with his debt. Maybe I'm being naive there, but seeing how everyone is jumping at the chance to donate to the winners of pound and several Good Player Funds, I wouldn't be surprised.
Taken from OP:
The base venue fee will only be $20.
Everything about this venue and how prepared we are will completely blow *Pound* 4 out of the water....
As soon as Plank had any doubts about the success of this tourney, he should have spoken up and reached out to the community. Things would have turned out a LOT better.
He may not be legally obligated to pay the winners, but he's morally obligated and traditionally obligated to. Not anyone--both him, the prize winners, or even the rest of the folk expected the prizes to not be distributed to the top placers.
How some of you are wording it is like it was never expected at all or it was never tradition. The reason I was so upset about this before is not because of my expenses lost or what I won (it was insignificant compared to the fun I had at this tournament and worth every penny), but I am not happy about what happened to the top 2 for both melee and brawl events. Plank's general demeanor is as if it was 50% his fault, and 50% ours. I don't find that very fitting for what occurred afterward pound.
Now I would hope that some of you stop spewing this legal obligation nonsense, because it's a little bit repetitive now. We can't sue, obviously, but we can find other ways to pressure him into repaying what he "traditionally/whatever" is obligated to. I don't know him personally, but I wouldn't expect him to be a good person about this situation and gather the money through his own means, but that's just me.
Holy ****ing ****. This post is for the *******...
I just read this entire thread...
It took me an hour and a halfish (training mode + dreamland has been on the whole time too **** yeah!!!)
Really, I shouldn't be posting in here(in fact, I had no idea about this whole money issue with Pound V until Mr Jason Zimmerman talked to me on aim about 2 hours ago), but neither should 3/4 of you ****ing idiots, holy ****.
I don't how many of you actually read all the posts in this thread but check this out, I'm gonna quote myself...
A: Smart people that read through the thread to get the gist of what's going on.
********* are the ones that don't read the thread (or at least skim it), post whatever they think is relevant to the topic because their ego says THEIR **** is what matters, or people like Brian who like to jump into conversations (even though they really don't pertain to him) just to gain some of the attention of their peers.
I made that post earlier as a troll in the pacwest boards but HOLY ****ING **** ALMIGHTY does it apply here.
All of you little ******s who didn't bring up valid arguments or contribute constructively should be ashamed of yourselves. This is a very serious issue for the community and you ****ing idiots use it as a means to receive attention or gain notoriety.
My condolences to all parties that were ****ed over by this, both on the defendant's side (assuming the stories he told are the truth) and the plaintiffs' side. I would hope that Plank would work to make reparations for AT LEAST traveling expenses for the people that actually placed and who were expected to receive cash.
I'm sure all of you know we don't play this game for only the money. Just remember that one failed tournament doesn't determine the fate of our community. It should be viewed as a stepping stone, something to be learned from that we can take into the future.
On a side note: Pay the **** up for those traveling expenses I brought up, Plank. Don't be a *****
EDIT: NOW I just read the entire thread.
EDIT EDIT: I just realized that the people I'm calling ****ing idiots won't know that I'm calling them ****ing idiots, because they are ****ing idiots. Redundant post go!
EDIT EDIT EDIT: I should say, the people that placed HIGH enough to have their traveling expenses covered by their winnings.
EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT: The guy below me is one of the aforementioned ****ing idiots. Read the edit dip****.
It took me an hour and a halfish (training mode + dreamland has been on the whole time too **** yeah!!!)
Really, I shouldn't be posting in here(in fact, I had no idea about this whole money issue with Pound V until Mr Jason Zimmerman talked to me on aim about 2 hours ago), but neither should 3/4 of you ****ing idiots, holy ****.
I don't how many of you actually read all the posts in this thread but check this out, I'm gonna quote myself...
I made that post earlier as a troll in the pacwest boards but HOLY ****ING **** ALMIGHTY does it apply here.
All of you little ******s who didn't bring up valid arguments or contribute constructively should be ashamed of yourselves. This is a very serious issue for the community and you ****ing idiots use it as a means to receive attention or gain notoriety.
My condolences to all parties that were ****ed over by this, both on the defendant's side (assuming the stories he told are the truth) and the plaintiffs' side. I would hope that Plank would work to make reparations for AT LEAST traveling expenses for the people that actually placed and who were expected to receive cash.
I'm sure all of you know we don't play this game for only the money. Just remember that one failed tournament doesn't determine the fate of our community. It should be viewed as a stepping stone, something to be learned from that we can take into the future.
On a side note: Pay the **** up for those traveling expenses I brought up, Plank. Don't be a *****
EDIT: NOW I just read the entire thread.
EDIT EDIT: I just realized that the people I'm calling ****ing idiots won't know that I'm calling them ****ing idiots, because they are ****ing idiots. Redundant post go!
EDIT EDIT EDIT: I should say, the people that placed HIGH enough to have their traveling expenses covered by their winnings.
EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT: The guy below me is one of the aforementioned ****ing idiots. Read the edit dip****.
pretty much every TO is on plank's side for a reason, he made the right call. continue to be butthurt about losing 600$ or whatever, but the reality is this is a much better situation than one of the best TOs in this community being thousands of dollars in debt because of this. would the community be ABLE to bail him out? of course not.
Oh, and anyone that does sue will sure have fun making a net loss through legal expenses. any legal action made would just be an act of childish spite.
EDIT: this is also one of the reasons why the rest of the world hates americans, this stupid suing culture that encourages people to take legal action when they fall over the pavement and other such trivial matters like this. you seem to have started this ******** trend and I was starting to think that it was just something out of the ordinary until I come to see that people from this community are thinking of doing it too. completely outrageous.
He may not be legally obligated to pay the winners, but he's morally obligated and traditionally obligated to. Not anyone--both him, the prize winners, or even the rest of the folk expected the prizes to not be distributed to the top placers.
How some of you are wording it is like it was never expected at all or it was never tradition. The reason I was so upset about this before is not because of my expenses lost or what I won (it was insignificant compared to the fun I had at this tournament and worth every penny), but I am not happy about what happened to the top 2 for both melee and brawl events. Plank's general demeanor is as if it was 50% his fault, and 50% ours. I don't find that very fitting for what occurred afterward pound.
Now I would hope that some of you stop spewing this legal obligation nonsense, because it's a little bit repetitive now. We can't sue, obviously, but we can find other ways to pressure him into repaying what he "traditionally/whatever" is obligated to. I don't know him personally, but I wouldn't expect him to be a good person about this situation and gather the money through his own means, but that's just me.
Legal costs really aren't that huge for a small claims case. You guys act like it'll cost more than what the players deserve. Legal fees for let's say what Plank owes Dr. PP would be about $150. I'd pay that much to see if I could get the $2000 I deserve.
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 16 (14 members and 2 guests)
_Yes!_, Rostigalen, Plairnkk, Dr_Strangelove, Orion*, Oskar, $up@ N0v@, Xavier Rythos, BSP, So Fatal, Luigi player, MythTrainerInfinity, Avery
I followed every rule, but I'm still being punished... I understand the situation, but I just want you to know that not all of the smash community is irresponsible. There were people like us who worked hard to cooperate with the rules. We all paid a lot of money to come to this, and I worked very hard for 4th place.
