Pikachu's new 0-100+ cg on Falco

[Shaya]

you're telling me I'm doing it wrong? Prove it works then I'll concede.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

i need a recorder to do that, so it wouldn't be for a while

just dash back right after the throw, the timing isn't hard, i got it down in 20 minutes (though the timing for sheik is pretty funky, gotta work on that)

apparently michael hey can do it to, since he has the same thing listed

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=12810 <--- dthrow stuff

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=13180 <--- other marth grab combos

EDIT: michael hey = the guy who got the pikachu stuff

 

[clowsui]

when you say mid tier do you mean marth?

 

[KoSa!]

Playing a mid tier isnt all its cracked up to be. Unless you take DK, ICeys, Peach, ZSS, or TL and even then those characters required quite a bit of time to get the hang of. And anyone off of that list has terrible matchups against high tiers so a CG wouldnt be necessary. Going low or mid is never a good idea unless you got some high tiers or counters to balance out

 

[Kitamerby]

What the hell, I thought the meta game of Brawl completely stopped. O well, at least Falco still has a chain grab of his own. Another reason why people should play Meta. Honestly who plays Pikachu anyway, besides 7 year old that don't know any better?

Pikachu is the character choice of champions. Believing anything different is just delusional.



BTW, Pikachu chaingrabs MK now, too. :3

 

[King Funk]

This chaingrab is quite ****ed up... I've picked up Marth to drop MK as secondary.

 

[Beetle Juice]

ok but pikachu's chaingrab has to be in specific percents and also it isn't going to spend the start of the game trying to grab us or else it will get punished. Not to mention that we have our own gain grab on him and it is a light character. Also at mid to high percents they cant do nothing to us at all until they take the stock away and if we are one stock ahead of pikachu we have the advantage since it will attempt to grab us it will no longer be fresh when we reach our new stock.

 

[J4pu]

dude, why don't you just try reading back a few pages on this thread and stop being delusional, this CG is a huge boost for pikachu, how big is the boost falco got for our CG? isn't that only usable at a specific percent? I hate when people don't think and instead somehow get emotionally wrapped up in how their character is better. stop being dumb.

 

[§witch]

Well, Pikachu has one of the fastest dashes, has a nice shield, Falco can most likely be shieldgrabbed easily due to little range on most moves, a nice shieldgrab range, an okay dash grab, a spotdodge on the same level as Falco's, Fair may combo into a grab sometimes, baiting a move, crawling under a shine after baiting one(may or may not work, but it would be hilarious if it did), the fact that grabs go through shields, etc.

It's a ridiculous question in its own right, though. Falco isn't some super-evasive air-camper like Wario. Nor does he have gigantic disjointed hitboxes like Meta Knight. It's like asking why Falco would be able to grab Pit or Fox or Lucario. If Pikachu is of sufficient skill and sees an opening, he will grab, possibly at the desired %.

Regardless, if the matchup truly is even even before this discovery, then it will definitely tilt into Pikachu's favor now. Saying otherwise is just being silly.

You're not answering the question. How can pika get in close enough to get a grab provided the falco knows what he's doing?

As for the last part; I never stated that it's not a huge boost to pika, but I'd rather fight pika than ICs with falco.

 

[Ussi]

You're not answering the question. How can pika get in close enough to get a grab provided the falco knows what he's doing?

As for the last part; I never stated that it's not a huge boost to pika, but I'd rather fight pika than ICs with falco.

how can falco get away if pikachu knows what he's doing?

Who you'd rather fight is subjective. I'd rather fight marth with pikachu than falco with Ike. They are both bad match ups in the end.

 

[Eddie G]

Well...it looks like I'll be picking Pikachu back up now. I'm glad something like this was discovered and made public. Lame or not, I'll definitely be using it. Broken game is broken anyway.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

You're not answering the question. How can pika get in close enough to get a grab provided the falco knows what he's doing?

As for the last part; I never stated that it's not a huge boost to pika, but I'd rather fight pika than ICs with falco.

QAC holmes

 

[Beetle Juice]

dude, why don't you just try reading back a few pages on this thread and stop being delusional, this CG is a huge boost for pikachu, how big is the boost falco got for our CG? isn't that only usable at a specific percent? I hate when people don't think and instead somehow get emotionally wrapped up in how their character is better. stop being dumb.

first of all i have read the other pages FYI
second of all I am not stating that falco is better, only stating that this match up is still winnable as for people believes that all hope is lost and will result in CP'ing.
third is yes this does boost up in pika's favor, don't know by how much.
fourth is that it hasn't been used in high level play yet (just to see how much it impact the match up), and we already know how fast and good pika is.
fifth in a match up do you think that pika will spend the entire match trying to grab and jut leave you at low percents.
six this isn't ice climbers
and last but not least we may need to change the match up ratio and we need to discuss this match up more thouroughly (i think i spelled that wrong)

 

[§witch]

how can falco get away if pikachu knows what he's doing?

Who you'd rather fight is subjective. I'd rather fight marth with pikachu than falco with Ike. They are both bad match ups in the end.

IAP.

itsthebigfoot: Lol no, QAC most definitely does not put pika in a good position to grab, just straight up running at falco is a better idea. And lasers>>>>QA.

 

[Scissors Sir]

switch it's no harder for pika to grab Falco as it is for Falco to grab pika.

Even a scrub can land at least one grab on a good player. Even if that one grab is the only damage that player does the entire match.

Assume both players are of high skill

Each getting in at least one grab on the other is to be expected.

 

[Ussi]

Iap can and will get predictable. If you have only one form of escape that is very linear on where it goes, you'll get caught eventually.

This discussion is getting no where. I'm not gonna fight for a silly number. I'll leave you falco mains to determine how badly this affects you since you guys should know your character best.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

IAP.

itsthebigfoot: Lol no, QAC most definitely does not put pika in a good position to grab, just straight up running at falco is a better idea. And lasers>>>>QA.

lasers go in a straight line, qac can go above them pretty easily. you can't keep pika out, you can phantasm away, but a quick attack in the other direction (since IAP is pretty predictable if you're using it to keep distance), and bam, grabbed, hell, you can even be grabbed out of IAP

 

[Ussi]

Phamtasm is said to have invincibility frames in the beginning

 

[Hawks go Caw]

QAC is an aerial QAC into the ground and then jumping right when you land right? Wouldn't you have land before you can grab?

 

[Denzi]

QAC is an aerial QAC into the ground and then jumping right when you land right? Wouldn't you have land before you can grab?

That's what I was thinking. Regardless, there are other ways for Pika to land a grab.

 

[J4pu]

I'm with Ussi, I'm done with match-up discussions, people never think about them clearly, too much devotion to a character ruins your perspective or something.

 

[Denzi]

I'm with Ussi, I'm done with match-up discussions, people never think about them clearly, too much devotion to a character ruins your perspective or something.

Yeah, this thread really isn't going anywhere anymore.

 

[Nicholas1024]

I agree, but I might as well put in my two cents.

(1): I played against an falco (around my skill level) to practice the CG. I took 50% (and he took 20%) before I got it in, but once I did, he took nearly 100% damage. Even if us pikas get punished heavily for the grab, it still works to our advantage should we get it in.


(2): I don't think that the maximum damage % for the grab to start has been determined yet. If it happens to be at all high, then coupled with our F-throw CG, we'd have a pretty large damage range to grab you in.


(3): Yes, the possibility of getting grabbed by the IC is more dangerous and nerve-wracking, but pikachu has other skills and that makes him quite dangerous. This is going to turn the matchup to pikas favor. I don't know by how much or how little, but it will turn.

 

[Ussi]

maximum damage has been figured out. At 40% it still goes to 100%, 45% goes to 80%, and 50% goes to 70%.

 

[GenesisJLS]

Iap can and will get predictable. If you have only one form of escape that is very linear on where it goes, you'll get caught eventually.

This discussion is getting no where. I'm not gonna fight for a silly number. I'll leave you falco mains to determine how badly this affects you since you guys should know your character best.

Ussi we'll settle this next tournament. Falco vs Pikachu chain grab to the death. After you beat me, I'll just play Meta Knight.

 

[Kitamerby]

You're not answering the question. How can pika get in close enough to get a grab provided the falco knows what he's doing?

As for the last part; I never stated that it's not a huge boost to pika, but I'd rather fight pika than ICs with falco.

Now you're just being silly. Pikachu's one of the most mobile grabbers and has rather poor range on all his moves otherwise, so he's used to being outranged. However, he still grabs most characters at least once in a match, even those who get cg'd. Falco will have to try harder to avoid the grab now below 40%, but chances are he'll get grabbed before the cg wears off at least once a match/set.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Lol, people getting emotionally invested in matchup discussion on a message board. Real feminine.

 

[Ussi]

Ussi we'll settle this next tournament. Falco vs Pikachu chain grab to the death. After you beat me, I'll just play Meta Knight.

I thought you stopped playing o_O

First I need to find a part time job for money before I go to tourneys again. Unless we meet in the Drexel Lounge during the spring term

 

[Collective of Bears]

Pikachu is so broken.

 

[Jeet Kune Do]

Haha, it's about time people begin to notice Pikachu's potential. I guess all it took was some CG research for people to be like, "oh wait, he's a real big threat." The cg's aren't even what make him good... ahaha

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Now you're just being silly. Pikachu's one of the most mobile grabbers and has rather poor range on all his moves otherwise, so he's used to being outranged. However, he still grabs most characters at least once in a match, even those who get cg'd. Falco will have to try harder to avoid the grab now below 40%, but chances are he'll get grabbed before the cg wears off at least once a match/set.

You're just making general statements, as is Switch. How can you two really continue to argue over whether one is better at grabbing or the other is better at avoiding the grab? That gets way too specific into the matchup. You can provide setups for the grab or escape routes from it, but whether one is more effective than the other won't be determined by words.

 

[Dai-A]

I agree, marth+falco is raaaaaaaaaaape.

LOL thats the characters i main.
Marth counters all of falcos bad matchups. except meta knight... but then again who countes metaknight? well i guesss marth can do really good against meta knight, just dont get hit off the stage and Dair'd

Dai-A Edit
Well what i normally do to pikachus that are chaingrab happy is spam lasers like crazy, then Forward b when they start coming close to me. Oh and space the reflector so the ending like hits/reflects so even if he starts approaching with his thunder b thingy he'll get hit or you'll have enough time to do your jab combo.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

pikachu can duck under your lasers and approach with jolts and just timing walks/ducking, you can get outcamp'd by pika if they know how to quick attack

 

[Hawks go Caw]

pikachu can duck under your lasers and approach with jolts and just timing walks/ducking, you can outcamp pika if they know how to quick attack

Wow. This strategy is infallible. We may as well give up since Pika walk at us. /sarcastic

This discussion has taken all the attention of the Falco boards

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

/facepalm

You know that a good pikachu can avoid lasers either by shielding, ducking or QACing.
Pikachu can use projectiles so falco has to stay keen

Conclusion: pikachu has a projectile and a quick moving attack, and he can duck. he can counter camping well.

 

[Dai-A]

/facepalm

You know that a good pikachu can avoid lasers either by shielding, ducking or QACing.
Pikachu can use projectiles so falco has to stay keen

Conclusion: pikachu has a projectile and a quick moving attack, and he can duck. he can counter camping well.

lol once again the reflector is put down. it will actually stop everything on pikachu and even if he approaches the tip will hit him. if you space it right of course
DAI EDIT
im not saying that the match up is not hard, im just saying what makes pika struggle

 

[Ussi]

Pikachu can duck under the reflector.

 

[Dai-A]

Can he really? didnt know that. never mind then.

 

[Ussi]

Falco's reflector hits as low as his lasers by what i've seen.

 

[Dai-A]

well ive never experimented with a crawling pika trying to get under my shine.