Pikachu's new 0-100+ cg on Falco

[Ussi]

You'd think it'd hit. I did too till my friend ducked under it when I was using Falco (random) on her. I was like O_o that doesn't make sense. But a lot of things don't make sense in brawl.

 

[Dai-A]

smash just doesnt make sense.
lol like if you really want to get into it haha.
seriously what kind of bird turns onto fire then gets random boost up (up b) lol

 

[Hawks go Caw]

The reflecting part of the reflector is the entire reflector . . . (can't think of another way to rephrase that without sounding redundant). The hit box is only the inside hexagon though.

 

[Dai-A]

uh well actually there is like a little tip on it. im just saying to space it to the tip.

 

[Ussi]

So at the tip of the reflector hits a ducking pikachu?

 

[Hawks go Caw]

So at the tip of the reflector hits a ducking pikachu?

No . . . . I don't know what the other guy is talking about with his spacing. I don't think he's talking about crouching Pikachu's.

Anyway, this topic has seriously been beaten to death. Most of it anyway. Talking about whether or not Pika can grab Falco or how much Pika's going to rise doesn't help the match up discussion and it won't improve our situation.

I don't think it's really starting the match 100%-0. We have a CG of our own that can get Pika up to 50-ish, no? 100%-50% isn't nearly as bad. Can Pikachu kill Falco at 100%? Aside from Thunder and a charged smash, it seems like to me that Pika would still need to get us up another 20% or so. It's not much, but even a little leeway can go a long ways even if it means we have to play super gay.

 

[Ussi]

pikachu gets out at 29% with dair

 

[Hawks go Caw]

pikachu gets out at 29% with dair

I pulled a Japu and counted the follow up which could bring it up to 50%.

 

[Shaya]

So before 29% do your own dair, then techchase with a boost smash and he's close to 70% anyway.

Saying Falco won't get grabbed is insanely silly. If Falco was so good at not getting grabbed we wouldn't have an issue with ICs (well there are various reasons why ICs give big issues). We can spam lasers and IAP on ICs all day, doesn't give us much.

Because ONE misspaced anything, or ONE predicted side b, we're screwed. It's the same here except at least its not purely death if they're a competant chain grabber.

 

[Dai-A]

No . . . . I don't know what the other guy is talking about with his spacing. I don't think he's talking about crouching Pikachu's.

QUOTE]

lol sorry guys. i cant explain it. but yeah i wasnt talking about crouching pikachus anymore. But yeah nvm since this totally killed my reflector uses.

 

[Emperor Time]

Reflector wouldn't be appealing even if it kinda worked. Way too punishable for this MU.

 

[vKo]

This..
Is bull.

This is like Subway/Quizno's/whatever dominating with they're sandwiches - then Pizza Hut learns to make them.

 

[Scissors Sir]

I don't think it's really starting the match 100%-0. We have a CG of our own that can get Pika up to 50-ish, no? 100%-50% isn't nearly as bad. Can Pikachu kill Falco at 100%? Aside from Thunder and a charged smash, it seems like to me that Pika would still need to get us up another 20% or so. It's not much, but even a little leeway can go a long ways even if it means we have to play super gay.

after the cg to 100, an up smash will put you at 120ish and leave falco playing a dodging guessing game with thunder.

Even if all of that doednt get the kill, a nair is just sitting there waiting to be used

 

[Geekhead]

To see where i got most of this info see here
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=180437

what you should focus on with this match up is falco's Ariel game, laser spam, phantasm/ground game, and maybe an occasional reflector.

Falco's Ariel Game

falco's airiel game> pika's airiel game

This is what pikachu's main disadvantage is. pikachu, of course, has thunder to hit u in the air. DI away and punish. it's that easy! Fair, Nair, and Dair are good against pika. multi-hit moves are evil and easy to follow up on. if he gets away, di toward him and Dair, Uair, or Bair. Falco has faster lasers in the air, pikachu has only close range moves (Nair, Bair, Fair, Uair, & Dair all have hitboxes in pika's body) so if he tries to combat you in the air, you have the advantage. His Thunder Jolt angles down in the air, so don't worry about that unless you're on the ground. Falco has his reflector, but that is in the other section. Dair can of course, spike. you can spike, tech chase, set up for a Dair>any air combo (from the ground). you have a CG>spike, and he can't grab you in the air. So be a very hoppy falco in this match up.

But this can be very vital information for people to know!

Another thing that was discovered was that while being chaingrabbed by falco, you can use your dair to knock back falco at around 30%. This improves your chances at beating falco immensely. DI back and use your dair. But, if the falco is on his toes, he can just shield it and continue the CG. Also, after the last CG, he can dair you, and depending on how you DI, he may be able to get another grab in.

Laser Spam

SHDL might not work too good here. since pika is so friggin short, you might have just to do a grounded laser. if you perform a SHDL perfectly, then it'll be okay. But pika can duck under the laser if he times right.

If the opponent ever decides to start spamming the lasers then just duck below them and start crawling. There is still a chance that you will get hit by them, but that chance is low and mostly dependent on when you duck as compared to when they fired the shot. If you crawl be sure to time it so that your tail is up when there is no laser. Otherwise you will get hit by them. Another thing with crawling is that is can be used to avoid the thrown shine. If you ever feel a shine coming on just duck. This leads very easily to a dtilt or a fsmash if you are close enough

as i said before, you want to be in the air. lure pika into the air and kill him there. of course you have your ariels, but if he is recovering and comes above the ledge, then just laser him. the stun from the laser might allow for you to follow up with a DACUS or a boost usmash, but just remember you can use this for a long range attack.

In this match up between falco and pikachu, the match will probably start out with both characters using their projectiles(the lasers and the tjolt). For pika, I would suggest starting out with a full hop tjolt. (This applies for stages where falco is on the same platform as you, like FD) The reason for the full hop tjolt is because falco's laser is very fast and can travel any distance. If you start out with a full jump then you can safely send a tjolt, stop the lasers from coming, and safely dodging the leftover lasers. But, remember that falco can also jump and hit you with 2 lasers. He can also not use his lasers and do a running usmash which can get you up to 20%.

always nice to know what they're afraid of

a good Pikachu is going to know how to use his projectile. same with falco. if lasers can out prioritize pikachu, then don't be afraid to use it.

phantasm/ground game

When Falco dashes towards you and uses his Running A and you shield to set him up with some lag to counter-attack, more and more Falcos are discovering that they can immediately Up Smash our block attempt. The sad thing to this is that the move is without lag. I'm not sure what they have to do to perform the move, I just know that they can do it and that this could lead into some serious mind game problems for Pikachu.

that is just too good

pikachus apparently have problems with mindgames! phantasm is basically made for mindgames lol. to keep away from getting grabbed, do the following
laser>laser>laser>phantasm/ariel phantasm>turn around>laser>laser>laser

or stay in the air

dash attack to a lagless Usmash is just too sexy! to perform, if not known, do this (also can be used as a boost Usmash)
dash>Cstick Down>Z+up
you need to do this ^ instantly after the Cstick. It will almost be at the same time. But if you hit them, there is a bigger window to Usmash (they will be right there for the Usmash and this will only miss if...
1. You suck at aiming
2. You hit them when they are at a high percentage; around 70%
3. They dodge.)

this subject is the most free one to use. it is useful, so experiment with this so you are comfortable with it.

reflector

Falco can reflect the thunder right back into you. Do not thunder spam if you let the thunder hit you. Try and always wavebounce so that just in case he reflects it you will not be hurt by it.

To me, nothing is funnier then a pikachu getten' eaten by his own thunder, and is clueless. So as this adds to the ariel game, where you can di away and reflector the thunder to bring him up; and guess what! he has hit stun! if he is around 50% (just guesstimating) and this happens, follow it with a Uair for the flawless kill!

Pikachu's are always aware that you can use the reflector to reflect their Tjold, so that is why they usually do it in the air. still reflect it or air dodge it.

this quote was already used, but im only using the part i need to point out

Another thing with crawling is that is can be used to avoid the thrown shine. If you ever feel a shine coming on just duck. This leads very easily to a dtilt or a fsmash if you are close enough

But this is a pleasant thing to know too

But, remember that the shine can also trip, which can lead to a CG at lower percents, or a sliding Usmash at higher percents.

HEY!!! shine has a use! so i guess i don't need to say anything else here.

Discuss plz!

 

[rolrctermaniac]

when the pikachu is crawling and your doing shdl's use a phantasm and surprise the sneeky little rat

 

[Shaya]

when the pikachu is crawling and your doing shdl's use a phantasm and surprise the sneeky little rat

This is perhaps one of the most common movements a Falco does; it won't be catching really anyone by surprise. EVER.

 

[Dai-A]

you guys dont understand.... reflector is good! i promise just space it right so even if he crawls youll have time to dodge backwards.

 

[napZzz]

100% isn't death guys. Haven't you ever seen someone survive up to 150% against Snakes?

Sheesh... this is the problem with Brawl, everyone sees "omg new 0-100% CG" and goes, "hey, this matchup is now worthless. No need to bother playing it! Just resign and counterpick." Grow up and grow a pair. This makes the matchup hard, but not unwinnable. Remember when Falco's cg->spike killed Falco and Wolf? How many times did you see that in a match? Was it every time? Did that make those matchups unwinnable?

This just means that we have to be careful not to get grabbed around 20ish % against Pika. It makes it harder, but not impossible. Camp up and play smart and you'll be fine. If Pika tries to Fair approach, shieldgrab him and backthrow him away, iap to the other side of the stage, and camp up again.

If Pika is going to spend the whole match trying to get that CG, it's in your favor because he's going to be predictable. Kick his ***. SH over him and Bair, spot dodge his grab and grab him back, fight f or controller port priority, and then play a different character round 2. Or you can sti on these forums all day and complain about how this matchup is unwinnable.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

your acting like perfect playing is simple and not getting grabbed is even easier. 100% is practically death, and you WILL die eventually if the pika is smart because you um..kinda have to get close to someone to hit them, where eventually they can nail you with a strong attack. Camping pika cant really work I'm guessing due to his small size and mobility.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

you guys dont understand.... reflector is good! i promise just space it right so even if he crawls youll have time to dodge backwards.

And you seem to be ignoring the risks involved. Shielded or powershieled = punishment for falco.

Sure, reflector does give a surprise, but if used 2-3 times in close succession people will adapt to know, "ok, this person really likes to use the reflector upclose. I have to be prepared to deal with it when I see it." Then next time you get shielded and are now facing a CG or chain of attacks. And people don't forget someone's typical actions quickly. They will remember it and learn to counter it.


On the snake thing. I'd say that it puts the match up with a slight advantage for pikachu. 58:42; 55:45 pikachu

 

[Geekhead]

you guys don't understand.... reflector is good! i promise just space it right so even if he crawls you'll have time to dodge backwards.

no i believe him. as i said before it can be used for tripping, if you do a SH reflector then you retreat with a hitbox in front of yo face

but sure there are other options that you can use, just reflector is a longer distance one that can really work to stun them for even a short moment, then double laser right after. if they do trip, you can follow up with a cg>spike if they are low enough.

and he is dang good with falco
he could pwn u all here
^
|_____________________________
i don't want an argument about this__|

that was an arrow

 

[Sph34r]

Uh... why does controller port matter? Does it affect something?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

It effects numerous little things in brawl.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=169109

 

[Geekhead]

like with some suicides it effects if it will be a tie or you die.

the favorite one with snake boards is that if you or snake is holding a grenade and he grabs you (and snake is in the lower slot) you both take damage, but only you get knocked back

 

[Dai-A]

And you seem to be ignoring the risks involved. Shielded or powershieled = punishment for falco.

Sure, reflector does give a surprise, but if used 2-3 times in close succession people will adapt to know, "ok, this person really likes to use the reflector upclose. I have to be prepared to deal with it when I see it." Then next time you get shielded and are now facing a CG or chain of attacks. And people don't forget someone's typical actions quickly. They will remember it and learn to counter it.

im not ignoring any risks. im just saying space everything right, and if you want to play gay. just ledge hop reflector so you will just send your big *** reflector out, and then once your reflector goes back to falco the attack is already over and you just grab the ledge. so there is like no possible away of really getting hit. the pikachu is going to have to be hella fast.

 

[J4pu]

im not ignoring any risks. im just saying space everything right, and if you want to play gay. just ledge hop reflector so you will just send your big *** reflector out, and then once your reflector goes back to falco the attack is already over and you just grab the ledge. so there is like no possible away of really getting hit. the pikachu is going to have to be hella fast.

pikachu standing near the edge shields the reflector then he just has to wait til you fall back down to grab. Then all pikachu has to do is pummel you over and over again, you don't have a second jump anymore, so you'll release downwards and be forced to use firebird -> edge-hog -> you die. That works at any percent.
you can't control the spacing if you are ledge-camping, the spacing is entirely up to pikachu in this scenario. This is like asking to die.

 

[Blistering Speed]

The same guy who discovered this (Micheal Hey) also discovered a ZSS Forward Throw CG, which takes Falco from 7% - 39% + a regrab with a certain decay.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7097926

 

[Emperor Time]

It's not that bad...

 

[J4pu]

lol michael hey is on a brawl metagame rampage
first pika
then marth dthrow
now ZSS

 

[Jupz]

What was the thing about the marth dthrow?

 

[zyklon]

Marth can dthrow -> buffer dash -> Regular Boost Grab (SG may work) chainthrow several chars.. it's on his blog on allisbrawl

 

[J4pu]

ends with tipper fsmash = ~55%

 

[Dai-A]

pikachu standing near the edge shields the reflector then he just has to wait til you fall back down to grab. Then all pikachu has to do is pummel you over and over again, you don't have a second jump anymore, so you'll release downwards and be forced to use firebird -> edge-hog -> you die. That works at any percent.
you can't control the spacing if you are ledge-camping, the spacing is entirely up to pikachu in this scenario. This is like asking to die.

Lol brawls so gay that the sweet spotting is stupid. if your like 4 feet away youll still grab on.
just move backwards when you shine. but not to far.

 

[J4pu]

i'm sure Dtilt and a downward angled Ftilt would also put you below stage height w/o a 2nd jump, and they both have enough range to catch you even if you can only barely reach the edge.
6% damage vs large chance of dying
the risk reward ratio is all wrong dude, it's just not smart.

 

[pure_awesome]

Or, Pika could just... y'know, jump out and destroy you during reflector's awesome ending lag.


Not like Falco could do anything anyway. I mean, what are you gonna do, Fair? Badum tiss!

 

[Geekhead]

ok, here's an idea! use reflector to reflect!