Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[Irsic]

Lucas' jab is 2 frames as well, so the jab argument is negated x_x

 

[Praxis]

I'd put this at 60:40 Peach, 55 at best but unlikely.

Peach has a CG on Ness/Lucas that refreshes her moveset and is a 0-death with a walk off ledge and an infinite with a wall (making Delfino very dangerous xD). She's got good combos on him, breaks out of combos with nair, and he doesn't have much he can do. Just don't get predictable with floating so you don't eat an usmash. Usmash almost never hits me if I play cautious at high percentages.

The Lucas boards did this discussion already and came up with 60:40 I believe.

Also, turnips > his recovery, and Peach has a really amusing suicide move she can perform; if she hits him with the tip of her umbrella while floating down, she can continue to open and close the umbrella every time he attempts to up-B. xD Not practical, but I did it once and it was hilarious.

 

[Dark.Pch]

She has a grab, a glide toss, and a 2 hit dash attack as ground approaches. That's a lot worse than what she has in the air, so I'm gonna say that if I can cut your aerial approaches with pk fire, it's a win for me.

She also has a good jab game that can lead to stuff. watch azens jab game with Peach. it's insane.

And you are also forgetting that she can use all her air attacks grounded. If the Peach is technical and quick with it with a mix of spacing, her not being in the air won't mean much to her at all.

 

[Praxis]

She has a grab, a glide toss, and a 2 hit dash attack as ground approaches. That's a lot worse than what she has in the air, so I'm gonna say that if I can cut your aerial approaches with pk fire, it's a win for me.

Wow, you guys are overhyping PK fire camping :/ I don't see anything here that can't be negated by pulling a turnip, approaching with a powershield and then glide toss or turnip OOS at close range when Lucas hits your shield (3 frames OOS IIRC).

I don't think you guys get that good Peaches don't approach with floating. We hop into a float at close range and attack with an aerial, or fast fall an autocancelled aerial to a grab or two frame jab (that leads into a grab) or defensive move like fsmash or utilt depending on your spacing. The ability to keep us from floating at long range really doesn't matter.

The Ganondorf's tried this argument too. They thought that if Peach just sits there floating they could approach with backwards short hopped uairs, which is an absurd thought; do they think I'm just going to be floating towards them from a distance? Peach's float speed is slow. We do NOT approach with it from a distance.

Also, your Usmash is great, but doesn't come out that fast. I can usually fast fall to shield fast enough; Peach's don't float THAT predictably :/

EDIT: MORE ON THE GROUND GAME:
Peach's ground game is really designed to **** air approaches. Ftilt, utilt, fsmash all reach at just the right angle to mess up aerial approaches. Her dash attack reaches high enough to hit people falling really easily. Meanwhile, her air game is designed to **** ground approaches, since she can autocancel all of her aerials- autocancelling fair against shield is virtually unpunishable.

Basically, if Peach runs through your PK Fire camp powershielding it...you're going to have a problem when she gets close. What are you going to do? She can shield an attack and jump into an aerial (quick float and release fair to jab to grab for example), and if you jump, she'll use her grounded moveset to **** you.

I'm not saying Lucas has no options here, but the PK fire camp does NOT limit us nearly as much as you think it does.

Lucas' jab is 2 frames as well, so the jab argument is negated x_x

Except Peach's two frame jab leads into a CG across the entire stage, and can be released into an ftilt for 13% (kills ~140%) or released on the ledge for edgeguarding to put Lucas in a bad situation.




PK Freeze is good for making us drop float while recovering, but we can usually make it back anyway :/



Peach should be playing this relatively aggressively, but not too much. Approach via powershields, punish Lucas's game, pressure heavily, don't give him room to space stuff, if he gets in the air retreat with fairs which should outrange his entire air game. Get him offstage and throw turnips, try for float-edgehogs if he's recovering low as they're very effective.

Lucas meanwhile should camp and try for spikes when he can.

Lucas can definitely win it, but Peach has the advantage.

 

[deepseadiva]

Peach has a CG on Ness/Lucas that refreshes her moveset and is a 0-death with a walk off ledge and an infinite with a wall (making Delfino very dangerous xD)

I could have guessed we had something on the brats, but I've never really attempted it.

How does it work Praxis?

 

[Neon Ness]

Also, turnips > his recovery

Umm... how? Turnips got nothin' on zap jump. When recovering high, magnet pull works wonders. In extreme occasions we've also got the option to tether the edge.

The Recovery Kid, we call him...

I don't have anything else useful to say, I haven't fought any Peaches offline.

*shrinks into a corner*

 

[Dark.Pch]

Umm... how? Turnips got nothin' on zap jump. When recovering high, magnet pull works wonders. In extreme occasions we've also got the option to tether the edge.

You don't aim at the Zap, you aim for lucas.

 

[Chuee]

Never try to punish a floating peach with an usmash. Its plain stupid. Your going to get punished.
Your best option against a floating is probably a sh pkf or an aerial maybe.
If peach has a turnip and glidetosses just shield and possibly jab or ftilt, peach's jab could probably come out before ours after glidetoss so predict it and keep the shield up, otherwise use jab or ftilt.
Never try and use PKT1 to gimp a peach if they're in recovery range with the umbrella, it cancells PKT1 out. If they're far away dont do it. A quick aerial will cancel it (not sure).
Peach can unfortunately stop our dair with an utilt, which kills our best approach =/.
I'd just use PKF to prevent approaching. Yes it can be powershielded but the only thing that can get us is a glidetoss so lets not use PKF when she has a turnip, K.
60-40 Peachy's favor.
EDIT: Dont see how a turnip would ruin our recovery unless he's PKT2 or magnet pull to recover. Zap jump, no way our we gonna get hit during a zap jump unless the peach predicts where we're going to end up. Tether, it's quick, turnips= slow do the math. PKT2, well this can get us, dont use this unless you have to. Magnet pull, it gets us, dont use this too much.

 

[crazycrackers]

Lucas's Usmash has little chance of hitting a smart Peach. It is also mentionable that with good technical skill Peach can do all of her air attacks on the ground by floating instantly on the ground, doing an air attack (Nair is practical and extremely fast, a good example, Fair is the obvious option), and dropping the float. So in reality, there are a couple aerial options that she can use at ground level. This helps with dealing with PKF. As long as the Peach is cautious, this matchup is in her favor. In addition, approaching Lucas while powershielding PKF will limmit PKF's use. Peach's ground game counters Lucas's air game. Peach's air game counters his ground game and his air game in some aspects. Peach was designed to do so with most characters. Lucas is no exception. And since Lucas's movements aren't that difficult to follow/keep up with for Peach, it gives her an advantage. All thats left for him is his projectile game, which can be dealth with. Once again, this is in Peach's favor. 60-40

Edit: It should be noted that while Peach's air game counters Lucas's ground game, and her ground game can counter his air game on some levels, Peach's ground game is countered by Lucas's air game. The main purpose of PKF is to force Peach to approach on the ground. There are ways to get around this but it is still significant without a doubt.

 

[Neon Ness]

Peach's Usmash has little chance of hitting a smart Peach.

O.O​

We talkin' mirrors now?

Also, some parts of the paragraph made it sound like the matchup is straight impossible. "Peach's air game counters Lucas' ground game..." "Peach's ground game counters Lucas' air game..."

It's not that bad for us, is it...!?

 

[crazycrackers]

O.O​

We talkin' mirrors now?

Also, some parts of the paragraph made it sound like the matchup is straight impossible. "Peach's air game counters Lucas' ground game..." "Peach's ground game counters Lucas' air game..."

It's not that bad for us, is it...!?

Lol typo. i'll edit that I guess. Also no i'm not trying to make the matchup sound that bad. Peach's air/ground games were designed to do so for many characters. However, she's easily beat ground vs. ground by Lucas, and Lucas can compete air vs. air. Its just a prediction thing. Lucas can force Peach to go on the ground on many levels to make up for this. Sorry if I made it sound worse than it is.

 

[deepseadiva]

Peach's Usmash has little chance of hitting a smart Peach.

Crazycrackers, you be crazy.

 

[Praxis]

I could have guessed we had something on the brats, but I've never really attempted it.

How does it work Praxis?

Grab, mash A till he escapes, then dash grab him before his lag ends. Rinse and repeat until you reach the stage edge.

 

[gantrain05]

Lol typo. i'll edit that I guess. Also no i'm not trying to make the matchup sound that bad. Peach's air/ground games were designed to do so for many characters. However, she's easily beat ground vs. ground by Lucas, and Lucas can compete air vs. air. Its just a prediction thing. Lucas can force Peach to go on the ground on many levels to make up for this. Sorry if I made it sound worse than it is.

i kinda disagree with this, i believe peaches ground game is alot better than lucas's and more versatile, this is just my opinion but heres my comparison of peach's ground game vs lucas's

1. jabs are pretty much equally useful, not sure how fast lucas's jabs come out but peach's is two frames and is a great "get away" move

2. Ftilt, peach's is mainly used for defending arial approaches or even following up combos, it has about the same horizontal range as lucas's Ftilt, maybe a bit less range, but overall i believe its more useful

3. Utilt, peach's Utilt is one of her best moves, amazing range, good knockback, very little lag, and can K.O. at high percentages, will also stop any arial from lucas. lucas's Utilt is similar but much smaller hitbox, slightly slower, and not quite as versatile.

4. Dtilt, peach's Dtilt is a great spacing move, it will send the opponent strait upwards and can sometimes lead into a combo. lucas's Dtilt is competely different, it is a tripping attack that can lead into jabs/grabs/Fsmashes, both have their uses, i'd say both are equal in this area.

5. Dash attack....meh, peach's can be useful for punishing, it has 2 hitboxes and has decent knockback, lucas's is pretty much just slow and punishable, i've not seen any lucas player use it effectively.

im not gonna get into throws, peaches throws suck except for her Dthrow at lower percentages where she can combo out of it, lucas has good throws, but his tether grab is pathetic, his pivot grab is ok tho, but generally useless against a peach, seeing as how she's pretty good at avoiding grabs anyway.

 

[prOAPC]

Lucas' jab comes out in frame 2

i hate Peach
APC (Lucas) vs Isaac (Peach)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRc5kjsguoY PS1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH8mxSTYwt4 PS1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXoZjxi7NdU FO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0ujwuKWOi0 LC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLN6b5xxbX4 PS1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDc1KuWGtVM BF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1OFxe790o FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPIfbEhqhuI FO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg0DvKmfa9U PS1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGn7lRMm6vE LC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ3e04usTFY SV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzfhRekR_Dw BF

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

lucas' ftilt is one of the safest moves he has. it's virtually unpunishable. i would say the ground game is even.

 

[NinjaLink]

Lucas' jab comes out in frame 2

i hate Peach
APC (Lucas) vs Isaac (Peach)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRc5kjsguoY PS1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH8mxSTYwt4 PS1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXoZjxi7NdU FO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0ujwuKWOi0 LC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLN6b5xxbX4 PS1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDc1KuWGtVM BF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1OFxe790o FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPIfbEhqhuI FO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg0DvKmfa9U PS1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGn7lRMm6vE LC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ3e04usTFY SV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzfhRekR_Dw BF

Its 3 frames not 2. I tested it myself. The frame data in the lucas section is wrong

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Don't people realize that Peach can use her air game on the ground? Just groudn floating. If you see a PK fire, drop the float and shield, then continue floating. It's miraculous actually. You have the option to hold a turnip, ground float, powershield the pk fire then glide toss the turnip. It's not hard to do and ridiculously effective to catch up with a camping Lucas.

 

[gantrain05]

Don't people realize that Peach can use her air game on the ground? Just groudn floating. If you see a PK fire, drop the float and shield, then continue floating. It's miraculous actually. You have the option to hold a turnip, ground float, powershield the pk fire then glide toss the turnip. It's not hard to do and ridiculously effective to catch up with a camping Lucas.

i've actually started doing this alot, it really catches people off gaurd when they aren't expecting it.

 

[NinjaLink]

18 cups of coffee........edreese is right

 

[Dark.Pch]

I think People should stat using her air game on the ground more. maybe this good help her do a lil better In match-ups. I'm gonna start and work with it. Edreese, you should too.

 

[prOAPC]

Its 3 frames not 2. I tested it myself. The frame data in the lucas section is wrong

we have 2 frame datas, 3GOD and Levitas wrote them, both of them say that it is 2 frames, Lucas' jab clanks with Peach's, you must be doing something wrong

 

[gantrain05]

we have 2 frame datas, 3GOD and Levitas wrote them, both of them say that it is 2 frames, Lucas' jab clanks with Peach's, you must be doing something wrong

just because its clanks doesn't make it the same speed.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

how about we just call it 2.5 then?

 

[lil cj]

How do they both have 2 frames??
Peach's jab is 2 hits
and Lucas' jab is 3 hits
Its whoever uses jab fastest
...i guess lol

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i thought lucas jab came out in 3 frames cause it seemed a hair slower than peachs

 

[Canvasofgrey]

I think People should stat using her air game on the ground more. maybe this good help her do a lil better In match-ups. I'm gonna start and work with it. Edreese, you should too.

Hehe, Try not to do it as much as me, because I do it tooo much. XD

As for Lucas, I don't know much about him. He's a faster, weaker on weak attacks but hard hitting smash, Ness pretty much. His PK Fire makes the match rather hard to approach on a standard level without using float or using a precious second jump. His aerials are pretty nice with good standing hitboxes and decent damage racker. However like Ness, I think Lucas gets easier once you bounce him off stage.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Even if he lost his jump you can't gimp Lucas very well , but it's really easy to edgeguard him. Just stand above the ledge and grab it the second he hits with PK Thunder. If he went for the ledge he got ledgehogged. if he went above, jump up and hit or grab him. He's going to get punished no matter what.

 

[Morrigan]

epic image to place in OP

yesh I took it

 

[Bitter Romantic]

vote +1 for epic image in OP :O

 

[Levitas]

i thought lucas jab came out in 3 frames cause it seemed a hair slower than peachs

Hits frame 2.

 

[Levitas]

She also has a good jab game that can lead to stuff. watch azens jab game with Peach. it's insane.

And you are also forgetting that she can use all her air attacks grounded. If the Peach is technical and quick with it with a mix of spacing, her not being in the air won't mean much to her at all.

Cool. So you're gonna approach with jab. Watch me use disjointed moves to beat your jab approach.

The fact of the matter is I claimed that if you normally can attack from the air or ground, and I can prevent you from attacking from the air, your options are more limited than if you can do either. Considering that one set is a subset of the other, I don't see how you can rationally disagree.

PK fire < float. I flat out stated that before.

Wow, you guys are overhyping PK fire camping :/ I don't see anything here that can't be negated by pulling a turnip, approaching with a powershield and then glide toss or turnip OOS at close range when Lucas hits your shield (3 frames OOS IIRC).

You're quoting the wrong person if you think that I'm hyping PK fire. it's not good. really. It does, however, have its uses. One of which is limiting peach's approach options.

Lucas doesn't like to let people get too close while he's pk firing. feel free to expect an AC nair into your shield when you think a PK fire is coming and get shield poked, because that's one of the extremely few things lucas can do.

I don't think you guys get that good Peaches don't approach with floating. We hop into a float at close range and attack with an aerial, or fast fall an autocancelled aerial to a grab or two frame jab (that leads into a grab) or defensive move like fsmash or utilt depending on your spacing. The ability to keep us from floating at long range really doesn't matter.

Last time I played a peach (Mikey Lenetia, if you remember him from melee), he did some pretty intense pressuring with floating bairs, fairs, jabs, and grabs. If you don't approach with low floats, you should consider it.

Also, your Usmash is great, but doesn't come out that fast. I can usually fast fall to shield fast enough; Peach's don't float THAT predictably :/

Our usmash blows. Last time I used it, it was an accident (I meant dsmash :/) and it got me killed immediately.

Basically, if Peach runs through your PK Fire camp powershielding it...you're going to have a problem when she gets close. What are you going to do? She can shield an attack and jump into an aerial (quick float and release fair to jab to grab for example), and if you jump, she'll use her grounded moveset to **** you.

Honest advice. Don't approach lucas. His game isn't good enough at a range to force an approach if you're doing it right, and you'll have a better time if you force me to approach you regardless of powershielding or whatever. It's lower risk and puts us at a further disadvantage. Don't discount lucas's retreating aerials. Dair is quite fast, disjointed, and will more often than not connect before your stuff will if we're right next to each other and I do it out of shield. Also, if you're at 85 or above, it'll combo directly into your death if it connects and you haven't seen it before.

PK Freeze is good for making us drop float while recovering, but we can usually make it back anyway :/

PKT is better for that, and it'll usually net 11-21 damage if we're doing it right. Note that it won't KO. We kill either with bair spikes or directly off of death zones in most cases.

Peach should be playing this relatively aggressively, but not too much. Approach via powershields, punish Lucas's game, pressure heavily, don't give him room to space stuff, if he gets in the air retreat with fairs which should outrange his entire air game. Get him offstage and throw turnips, try for float-edgehogs if he's recovering low as they're very effective.

I get the feeling that you're going off of theory rather than experience.

Lucas meanwhile should camp and try for spikes when he can.

Lucas can definitely win it, but Peach has the advantage.

Lucas can't spike peach if she's doing it right. Lucas KOs peach with frame trapping smashes and the odd Dthrow, and if she doesn't have a pulse (or an A button) I guess he can spike her.

Grab, mash A till he escapes, then dash grab him before his lag ends. Rinse and repeat until you reach the stage edge.

That doesn't work. You're not marth, and that is nuts hard (and pretty much not worth it) for marth, too.

my apologies for the double post.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Cool. So you're gonna approach with jab. Watch me use disjointed moves to beat your jab approach.

The fact of the matter is I claimed that if you normally can attack from the air or ground, and I can prevent you from attacking from the air, your options are more limited than if you can do either. Considering that one set is a subset of the other, I don't see how you can rationally disagree.

PK fire < float. I flat out stated that before.

You really don't get it. First off. Don't act like we will never be kicking your azzes in the air. it will happen. We won't be grounded 24/7 and we won't be in the air 24/7, So let me get that out the way now.

If you PK fire in the air, I will just glide toss to get close and even clack you with a turnip in the process. You seriously believe the air is all we really have, if that is what you really think, you know lil about this character at all to be talking like you know it all. Peach has a good air and ground game. And the Fact that Peach can use her air game on the ground makes up for for air PK fires.

If you PK fire in the air, it is easier to hit you and get close, since she is faster on the ground. And you know nothing of her jab game to talk like this:

Instant float>Nair/Bair/Fair>Jab>w/e you want next. And to make this better add a turnip to this. I can jab first to w/e. I mix and match. So Please don't act like PK Fire is your god, cause it is not in this fight. I said how Peach can fix you if you PK fire in the air. so use being grounded means nothing at all to a good Peach player. Nothing. And if you do it on the ground...........I don't even need to say it. When fighting this campy lucaus in a tournament match, He PK fired in the air and ground, all that crap and what I speak here is exactly what I did about the PK fire and he got beat up.

A Peach that is skillful in both air and the ground, PK fire not much to worry about. You keep thinking about the typical Peach thats just floats and Dairs alot. Quit it and look on about Peach players that know how to fight air and ground and know what they are doing.

 

[NinjaLink]

well dark.pch if u want we could record matches for this topic.


and yes. AC Nair is godly. Its like......the best move ever XD

 

[Dark.Pch]

well dark.pch if u want we could record matches for this topic.


and yes. AC Nair is godly. Its like......the best move ever XD

AC=auto cancel?

and are you talking about this for Peach?

 

[NinjaLink]

AC=auto cancel?

and are you talking about this for Peach?

i meant lucas

 

[_Kadaj_]

Edit: nvm

*random post*

 

[Dark.Pch]

i meant lucas

Ok.

And you gonna have to pick a time to play and place to play me, unless you talking about wifi?

 

[deepseadiva]

That doesn't work. You're not marth, and that is nuts hard (and pretty much not worth it) for marth, too.

It's escapable? Aww.

What about Ness?

 

[jog]

okay so i can't find where to ask questions on the peach boards like the "ask here and get a simple answer threads" on the GW and lucario boards.

anyways since you guys are talking about lucas i thought this spot would be fine *shrugs*

does peach's grab have super armor? i was tooling around with lucas today playing against a CPU and i used lucas' dsmash right when i got grabbed and peach took the damage but no knock back and peach still grabbed me.

sorry if this is a noob question or if its already known. i just thought i'd share this