Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[Levitas]

I'm putting those diagrams on my all is brawl page they are amazing.

thanks, lol

Levitas, its not so much that I haven't played anyone with the skill to dodge them, (and sorry for this) but I have really good timing and I'm really good at buffering things consistently. Lucas has a real small window to avoid it, I don't think EIDI is practical to be consistently be done on someone who buffers perfectly. It's possible but it still makes them take a lot of hits. I'd say that being able to avoid that dash grab chain grab consistently is saying that the Lucas player has perfect skill.

Let me just say this: I don't believe in EIDI. I have never had sufficient evidence to differentiate it with normal stuff, and I don't think even Ref's made the claim that it works for lucas, or even for ness outside of a few characters. I think that if there's something that works sometimes, it's not because it's difficult to input in this case. There's got to be another factor.

Levitas I am gonna put it like this Cause i'm getting tired or going back and forth with you:

You went on about PK fire, I explained how we can deal with it. And your lil example about how you can deal with the list of options I made. This is when you PK fire man. Pay more attention You can not do all that you said when you do PK fires.

I haven't argued against anyone who refused to listen to what I have said in my posts since the last time I argued against Yuna. I'll drop the argument too, but the next time you argue out of someone, don't make personal attacks on them without even reading their posts to the point of comprehension. It's really insulting.

I never once said here that I won't get get hit?. No one goes into a match and not get touched with ANYTHING. You will get hit. my point here is PK fire is not your key to victory. And we can still take it to the skies in this fight, PK in the air or not. Done.

And I never argued against that point, so if you weren't arguing against me and I wasn't arguing against you, wtf were we doing?

Jab to grab works, thats the point, Done.

Jab to grab can work. But it isn't infallible. I don't really care about this, anyways.

This is all about his PK fire, which I said the many ways to deal with it, the others already got on the match up in general and it comes out that we have the advantage over you. 60-40: Peach Done.

[/COLOR]

MY GOD. Every time I post, you have the same reply, which NEVER ONCE addressed any of the points I've made about how, yes, there are ways to deal with PK fire, and NO, that's NOT what I'm arguing about. This is what I mean when I said it's insulting to me that you haven't yet read my posts to the level of comprehension.

And yes, I already said I agree with a 60:40, but that's not where my problem lies that made me keep arguing here.

I'm a little sad that immediately upon posting here and seeing a response, I feel like I made an enemy. I wonder if you understand the impression that you as an individual made as an envoy of the peach boards. Please tone it down in the future. Maybe if you're bored, you could look back at this little chain of replies and see how things escalated.

 

[PKNintendo]

I'm putting those diagrams on my all is brawl page they are amazing.

Levitas, its not so much that I haven't played anyone with the skill to dodge them, (and sorry for this) but I have really good timing and I'm really good at buffering things consistently. Lucas has a real small window to avoid it, I don't think EIDI is practical to be consistently be done on someone who buffers perfectly. It's possible but it still makes them take a lot of hits. I'd say that being able to avoid that dash grab chain grab consistently is saying that the Lucas player has perfect skill.

I'd match that by saying Peach can back air lock Lucas , which is a combo that does about 80% and can result in an upsmash kill. It's a gauranteed combo, it's possible to do, and can be set up. So, Peach beats Lucas really badly because of back air lock. See how it's not right to use things that aren't practical? EIDI will sometimes get you out but honestly, against a buffered chain grab it's not reliable. Do you have any videos of anyone using it in a real TOURNAMENT match and consistently nail it down? As a Ness player I've practiced it and it sometimes works, but it doesn't mean I can do it consistently and I don't consider it a real defense against dash grab chain grabs

By the way Rickedy, THANKS a lot for the Sonic write up. And you guys are free to discuss any matchup you want here, I don't care if its been gone over before. We're here for accuracy and if there's something relevant to be added there's nothing wrong with that.

EIDI doesn't work for Lucas, because Lucas grab break already has the good distance comparable to a EIDI'd Ness. (although not as good) Peach can still do that grab release>jab>regrab game.

Bair trap is sexy as hell.


And guys, give Levitas a break. I mean he doesn't even MAIN Lucas (well sorta) and gives plenty of info on the matchup.

Eh, specs on the matchup? 55-45 or 6-4 for Peach?

 

[deepseadiva]

So, seeing as we have such an advantage here. What are the cutandpasta tools we can abuse in this match?

Bait usmash?

SH Dairs?

Whatwhat.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

well you can't bait Usmash, at best you'll see that move 3x in one match.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

You CAN. Just don't think it'll happen too often. Drifting towards him with your umbrella out could. But what would you DO at that point?

 

[Morrigan]

^lol yeah, landing umbrella lag sucks, I don't think you can punish an Usmash with it...not with a fully charged smash at least.

 

[crazycrackers]

A lot of this argument with Levitas/Dark and such is pointless. We should move on. We all know its 60-40. We all get the matchup mentality. Continuation of this isn't really neccessary imo.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

You CAN. Just don't think it'll happen too often. Drifting towards him with your umbrella out could. But what would you DO at that point?

even then im not going for Usmash probably, i can stalk and Fsmash her.

^lol yeah, landing umbrella lag sucks, I don't think you can punish an Usmash with it...not with a fully charged smash at least.

yes and no, you really have to guess where she'll land for it to happen. all she needs is that last minute curve out of the way and then the grab shenanigans can begin.

maybe its cause i main peach too, so im not gonna Usmash her very often if at all....
unless of course shes doing something like full hop Dair straight down on my head....
*Zelda insticts kick in*

 

[Levitas]

Once you're inside a max length pk fire spacing, you'll be able to close the gap fairly easily. I'd recommend approaching with dair from a float with your feet just above lucas's head. That leaves you in an angle safe from everything except a fair, and you can pull back if the lucas does a fullhop fair anyway.

Lucas can't deal with that directly, and if you make him do the fair, you can drop the float into an airdodge and grab. Both the grab and the dair have higher yield and lower risk than the lucas options at that point.

 

[Irsic]

wtf@baiting usmash.

You can't bait a usmash, it will never happen.

 

[prOAPC]

Lucas is broken

 

[lil cj]

Lucas=high tier

 

[Morrigan]

yeah ganon is high tier too

Spoiler

in HRC

 

[BentoBox]

Falco: 50:50; G&W: 45:55; Why is it that Peach's supposedly worst matchups are rated as neutral? The previous ratios need an update imo.

 

[hiROI]

Jigglypuff should be banned

 

[Kataefi]

Bento it's because the OP is a tad outdated. I'm sure it will updated soon.

 

[deepseadiva]

I don't see how it could be outdated. Did anything change?

I blame EDREESES!!

 

[Sky`]

Falco Even with Peach?

Uhh...

 

[Morrigan]

Should we pause the missing characters' matchups and revise the previously seen ones? (esp. the ones with lawlific numbers)

 

[Dark.Pch]

Falco is not bad Vs Peach. that 50-50 is correct.

 

[deepseadiva]

Should we pause the missing characters' matchups and revise the previously seen ones? (esp. the ones with lawlific numbers)

We should finish first. Maybe make threads dealing with the problematic match-ups now?

Falco is not bad Vs Peach. that 50-50 is correct.

I think a character with the ability to instantly say "nope" to your float will have an advantage Dark.

 

[Morrigan]

Falco is one of those matchups that some top players say it's easy while others say it's rapetastic. So I guess it comes to wether who plays the smartest Falcos or who has better control of Peach against him...or both

 

[Praxis]

Falco is not bad Vs Peach. that 50-50 is correct.

Peach is definitely disadvantaged to Falco. As bad as G&W and MK? No. Disadvantaged? Definitely.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Falco is one of those matchups that some top players say it's easy while others say it's rapetastic. So I guess it comes to wether who plays the smartest Falcos or who has better control of Peach against him...or both

The only thing I keep hearing from peach players about falco is the lasers and that it shuts her air game down. And more than half these people don't know how to fight falco on the ground. I explained many times how to deal with his lasers. And the best Falco in N.Y I beat in a tournament set. His name is D1 He can the hell out of me but was also smart about it and played well. Trust me, cause of his lasers, Falco does NOT have the upper hand here at all. That match is even.

 

[Razmakazi]

it's hard to approach on the ground even w/ perfect shield. any ****** can keep camping and then maybe phantasm and do the normal falco things that wrack dmg. it's easier for them than it is for us so i'll say 60-40. falco's favor ;o

 

[Dark.Pch]

No it is not. Look this is what I did to D1:

I power shield the grounded laser, then ran out of my shield and then moved in. And keep doing it till I got close. He has no choice but to stop unless he wanted to eat an attack to the face.

I'm just gonna be honest and people can take this how they want or look at me as they wish. built up your ground games. people so use to just floating care free, that when you get pinned to the ground you get beat up for it. Focused on the air so much you forget to tighten up your ground game. also people are not patient. I say this all the time, you need to have patient and playing aggressive to look cool/fancy and show off will not get you anywhere. only thing you have coming from this is an azz kicking.

And it be stupid for Falco to just F-B and continue to camp. For if he does, get a few feet in front and wait for it, then attack him out of it or grab him when it is done. Better yet, if he does that, this is your good chance to get a turnip. Then go on with the power shielding until you get close. Now if he thinks you will toss a turnip, most typical thing he will do is D-B, this is when you go in with a Fair. Or if he does it again, Glide toss the other way. he gets hit and that is your chance to get him.

This match is no way in hell in his favor.

 

[Sky`]

The only thing I keep hearing from peach players about falco is the lasers and that it shuts her air game down. And more than half these people don't know how to fight falco on the ground. I explained many times how to deal with his lasers. And the best Falco in N.Y I beat in a tournament set. His name is D1 He can the hell out of me but was also smart about it and played well. Trust me, cause of his lasers, Falco does NOT have the upper hand here at all. That match is even.

And...

You don't think you're being Baised... at all?

 

[Dark.Pch]

And...

You don't think you're being Baised... at all?

Not even close.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

once you get in Falcos face its not that bad and we gimp him good. hes just a pesky camper.

 

[BentoBox]

Matchup ratios should clearly determine the character who has the most options to shut down another's. Peach does not have many ways to deal with camping. And being patient isn't much of a tip when the Falco can be just as patient and zone you all day with lasers while over-Bing from side to side. PSing is indeed the only reliable way to approach one, but that, every single character in the game can do. The problem lies in pinning him down.

Also, the CG against the spacies was a hoax. It really does not work at all :<.

 

[Airgemini]

We should do Jigglypuff next! :D

 

[deepseadiva]

Also, the CG against the spacies was a hoax. It really does not work at all :<.

Whaa? I do it all the time.
WhatchyoutalkingboutBento.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

the CG isn't a hoax, but were not Falco who does it all day/night/sleep/eat/****. id' give it a bit to Falco, but not that much and sideb can be stopped and chased if your still shielding

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

On FD Falco is tough. T_T

each has methods of dealing with him. The CG early and the ability to fair him out of SideB. He denies the float... from far away. His jump has noticable startup and you can really hurt him once you're up close. Falco can't CG Peach either without eating Dair so a lot of his game is going to involve bairs and lasers. Just keep the pressure on and you can trash him.

Despite how I just worded all that I think it's 50:50. Wait for more peoples to say stuff before addingz.

 

[BentoBox]

Wolf can shine out of it after the very first or second throw. Falco/Fox can simply DI away. Tell your crew about it and see if you can still pull it off~ D:

 

[gantrain05]

Wolf can shine out of it after the very first or second throw. Falco/Fox can simply DI away. Tell your crew about it and see if you can still pull it off~ D:

easy enough to see their DI, after they DI its still an easy follow up with an Ftilt > Utilt/Nair.

 

[BentoBox]

Point being that the CG does not work, and they can often air dodge through your follow up.

 

[Praxis]

Wolf can shine out of it after the very first or second throw. Falco/Fox can simply DI away. Tell your crew about it and see if you can still pull it off~ D:

Wolf can shine out at 18%, Falco/Fox can't DI away till past 25% >_>

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Yeah. And AT 25 you can ftilt/bair. Maybe you aren't doing it right.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Moving back onto discussing who's jab is faster...

Did it ever occur to anyone that you might be able to use your 2nd jump to hop over an air Pk Fire? I'd have to test but I reckon it'd be possible so long as you were high enough to begin with. And if Lucas aims it higher, you can just drop down

Seems like approaching with a Turnip in hand is a good idea to me

Other than that...it seems this match up is just a 'space well, use turnips well etc. etc.' match


Can I reccomend we do Luigi next? He seems like a good choice as he's next on the tier list as far as character's we have covered