Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[Morrigan]

- YOU MUST NOT GET GRABBED AT HIGH PERCENTS!!!!!

High percents = 70%+?

Can he kill you with Bthrow at the edge of stages like Smashville or FD? That bthrow is sexily dangerous.

 

[Airgemini]

In my opinion I'd consider it maybe about 110%+

Probably yeah.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Besides, it'll give Rick a chance to write something people actually read for once. ^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hys5ZH-37bE

Guess who the two characters represent

Hint: I'm Mario



I haven't played many Ness'. I can say this though - when you get to around 100% +, that's the warning sign that Ness is going to want to land that B Throw on you. It is crucial that you don't get stuck at the sides of the stage (this will make you easier to kill) and that you DI/momentum cancel properly to survive this beastly move

As for his Fair...urgh, it's an irritating move to say the least. I personally like to OoS throw/Glide Toss a Turnip at him as he's moving back down to land. If they're being really predictable, you can jump up and Toad them

And yea, don't Toad either Lucas' or Ness' F Smash. They both have reflecting properties :/

Another fun thing you can do is if PK Fire does hit you, you can use the pillar to activate Toad to make him eat spores

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Ummm.. A lot of what I wanted to say was said by Edrees.... I'm just going to add that hitting his PK Thunder while he recovers is lulzy.

 

[hotgarbage]

- His Fair beats ours in terms of range I think, if he spaces it nicely it might become hard to approach. Nair is a great aerial in this match up I think.

To add to this, peach's fair actually has more range than his. His fair has more disjointed range though, which means that he can beat out all her aerial approaches with it (save for the rare lucky peach fair that makes it through ness's fair's hitbox).



10 fairs

 

[Uffe]

Ummm.. A lot of what I wanted to say was said by Edrees.... I'm just going to add that hitting his PK Thunder while he recovers is lulzy.

I love how people think this is so easily done. I also love how people think Ness has the worst recovery in the game. From my personal experience, saying this is 60:40 is a bit too steep. I could see it being 55:45 or just even, but never 60:40. You guys should get some good players and settle this through a match instead of assuming.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I didn't say it was easy. I said it was lulzy. And I meant with a turnip. I've done it with Snake's grenades too. It's hilarious.

 

[crazycrackers]

Lol Edrees pretty much said everything there is too it. Also, always remember that Peach's bair will often trade hits with Ness's Fair and that hurts Ness more than it does Peach.

 

[_clinton]

To add to this, peach's fair actually has more range than his. His fair has more disjointed range though, which means that he can beat out all her aerial approaches with it (save for the rare lucky peach fair that makes it through ness's fair's hitbox).

I'm pretty sure Peach's Fair doesn't have as much range as Ness' Fair...do note that the range on Fair changes based off of Ness' air movement...

50:50

Edge guarding wise...I guess Peach has a somewhat easier time (maybe) but Ness' edge game shouldn't be underestimated as well...

Oh and no way is Lucas 6:4 to Peach...but whatever...

 

[PKNintendo]

Ness now. I guess Lucas is settled at 60-40 peach?

I use Peach AND Ness in tournaments. Nobody else does that, so just throwing that out there. I've faced Ness with Peach and Peach with Ness a ton. I've placed with Peach, and I've placed with Ness.

With that being said, this matchup is 55-45 in Peach's favor. Maybe 60-40, but probably more likely 55-45. Ness's range on his aerial can give Peach serious problems, Forward airs, properly spaced, really make her switch her game up. Ness CAN spike her through the umbrella with proper spacing. He can also punish her up b with a pk thunder kill if she whiffs it. Ness's back throw kills her relatively early. Ness can be a trouble.

But Peach's moves will damage him a lot more overall, and she can edgeguard him REALLY well. Float, latch on the ledge as soon as his PK thunders. Just like Lucas if he hits the ledge, he's been edgehogged, if he goes over, it's a free hit. Dash grab release grab chain grabs work most of the time, I -guess- you can EIDI, but its hard and I don't see anybody doing it consistently in videos, tournament or anything. It helps peach recharge her moves and she can use it to chain grab him off walk offs. Peach can kill ness relatively early something she can't do on many characters so it helps a ton. Turnips also really can bug Ness because his projectiles (PK fire, thunder) have cooldown lag where hers do not, she he can't really spam them against her. Still the range and priority on his aerials can REALLY give her some trouble even when both characteres space properly. Except down air - peach's up air and up tilt both beat it, so that becomes not as useful except offstage as a spike. Still Peach's advantage for sure but just somewhat, probably 55-45.

Note: Ness can bat the toad and she cannot reflect it and the spores will hit her instead. Useless but funny and cool!

Pretty much sums it up. Yeah EIDI works, but it's relatively unknown so I don't see many peoeple pulling it off. You forgot that Ness kills Peach relatively early with his killers (notably backthrow) PKT2 (sometimes) and the others.

I see it as 50-50 or 55-45 for Peach.

I think it be best to get ness out of the way since we are done with lucas. And earthbound would be done.

Meanie! And a you stick Ness and Lucas together, yet again!

LOL.. you guys are going to hate me again. But with Ness.. it's pretty much the same thing only ness range. I hit him, and he dies. 6:4 peach's favor. maybe 65:35

What is this I don't even...

 

[hotgarbage]

I'm pretty sure Peach's Fair doesn't have as much range as Ness' Fair

It does actually, due to her leaning forward a crap-ton (which she doesn't do when floating btw). Once again though Ness's has more disjointed range.

...do note that the range on Fair changes based off of Ness' air movement...

oh? What exactly do you mean by this? I can't see the hitbox changing shape based off his aerial movement .

 

[thesage]

Peach is pretty easy to thunder juggle.

Make sure to watch out for Ness' uair, it's pretty powerful.

Probably advantage to Peach, I haven't played any good Peaches though.


I mained her in melee lol.

 

[Uffe]

Peach is pretty easy to thunder juggle.

Make sure to watch out for Ness' uair, it's pretty powerful.

Probably advantage to Peach, I haven't played any good Peaches though.


I mained her in melee lol.

It's unfortunate Pikachu stole her d-smash and her ***** slap was nerfed.

 

[gantrain05]

well one thing about this matchup, i'd think it would be a pain in the *** for ness to get his kills with his Bthrow, because generally peach is extremely hard to grab, although, her being in the air alot makes her a little more susceptible to Uair and Bair kills.

 

[_clinton]

It does actually, due to her leaning forward a crap-ton (which she doesn't do when floating btw). Once again though Ness's has more disjointed range.

oh? What exactly do you mean by this? I can't see the hitbox changing shape based off his aerial movement .

A. The only thing Ness has is DJed range...I mean really check it out...nothing on his body has a hitbox for that move...

B. Jump back C-stick forward, then just jump and C-stick forward, and then jump forward while using fair...

You'll see what I mean...

well one thing about this matchup, i'd think it would be a pain in the *** for ness to get his kills with his Bthrow, because generally peach is extremely hard to grab, although, her being in the air alot makes her a little more susceptible to Uair and Bair kills.

I think I should make a list of how many people say that...

God people it is a 6 or 8 frame KO move that you can't block and has set ups for...not a 20 frame KO smash attack

 

[deepseadiva]

Peach is pretty easy to thunder juggle.

This, at least, is horribly horribly true.

Something I don't have a good answer for.

 

[Razmakazi]

i just dair the thunder if i can. i'll take anything but an airdodge ;x

 

[gantrain05]

please explain to me how your going to just set peach up for a grab....please because even DDD can't get his fat hands on peach.

 

[_clinton]

please explain to me how your going to just set peach up for a grab....please because even DDD can't get his fat hands on peach.

Jab cancel...Dtilt...Fair cancel...about 3 of the ways I may try it...

 

[gantrain05]

jab and Fair cancels can be spot dodged afterwards, its not a true setup, its been tried on me before and it only worked when i didn't know about it, it hasn't worked after that, not sure about Dtilt tho, never seen it.

 

[_clinton]

jab and Fair cancels can be spot dodged afterwards, its not a true setup, its been tried on me before and it only worked when i didn't know about it, it hasn't worked after that, not sure about Dtilt tho, never seen it.

Fair can cause a trip at higher %...the same with Dtilt...of course if I actually got you with Dtilt...I'd go for the bat

The 2nd hit of Ness' jab puts you up more as well...

 

[Praxis]

I'm pretty sure Peach's Fair doesn't have as much range as Ness' Fair...do note that the range on Fair changes based off of Ness' air movement...

50:50

Edge guarding wise...I guess Peach has a somewhat easier time (maybe) but Ness' edge game shouldn't be underestimated as well...

Oh and no way is Lucas 6:4 to Peach...but whatever...

No, you're quite wrong. Peach's fair outranges Ness', but his comes out faster. So Peach should be using it defensively, backing away and fairing, since if they're moving at each other Ness' will hit first.

This matchup is 50:50 IMO...but if it's in anyone's favor, it's in Peach's. As a side note, Peach can set up grabs fairly easily and she's got a CG on Ness...the damage done is less important than the fact that pummeling refreshes the rest of Peach's stale moves and helps her kill. I can definitely see 55:45.

 

[thesage]

Nobody knows the matchup except like Edrees lol. It's weird that Ness and Peach barely face each other in tournament. Oh wait... nvm

 

[Praxis]

I've fought Dog Latin and Cazcom quite a few times.

Last time I fought Dog Latin I CG'd him off a walk off ledge on Delfino. xD

 

[Canvasofgrey]

I say a 55:45 favor por Peach. Most of Ness' KO moves invovle throws, Fsmash, Bair, sometimes Uair, and PKT2.

Against Throws, most of Ness' set up invovle either a running grab which can be predictable when used since Ness players grab much more often when the opponent is at higher percents, and a PK fire to Throw combo, but Peach can't really be killed with that set up since at higher percents where Peach would die from a BThrow, the PK fire will just knock her out of the pillar.

Fsmash is slower than in Melee, and jabs will take care of it. Since there's a low hitbox on the Fsmash, a Sh can avoid it as well.

Bair needs to be sweetspotted to hit, but Peach can out manuever Ness in the air with her more unpredictable air game.

Uair can beat Peach's Dair in some instances, but this is a rare occasion it seems.

PKT2, well, just try to avoid it.

A tip to Peach players though, watch out for Ness's PK bomb (I refuse to call it PK flash) Ness can lock Peach's float approach if Ness does an insta-release on the B, as I tend to do not only as a move refresher, but for mind games since People can mis-judge the frams which Ness is vulernable on a PK bomb. The hitbox is small, but it can kill some apporaches.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Peach is pretty easy to thunder juggle.

Make sure to watch out for Ness' uair, it's pretty powerful.

Probably advantage to Peach, I haven't played any good Peaches though.


I mained her in melee lol.

Peach is impossible to thunder jungle, All her aerials easily cancel out the PK thunder, including down air which doesn't even require timing. I punish Ness's pretty bad for trying it because it gives me a free hit as I come down ;D

Ness can grab her pretty easily if she's at all offensive. Just powershield her forward air and shield grab it. Sure, you might mess up, but even if you get it once in three, it's a KO. It works well and it's so simple. People also don't realize how good Ness dash and reverse pivot grabs are. He can mix these two up to create spacing options, that if Peach is trying really hard to avoid the grab, because they have so much range, will leave her open to a massiveload of other offensive options.

(For Peach to realistically be able to avoid dash grabs, she has to keep a certain spacing away, which does NOT coincidence with the spacing needed to space Ness's forward air. A really well spacing ness vs a really good spacing Peach and I honestly think the ness wins that battle, Peach has to rely on creating spacing options via turnips when the ness is also good) If ness can predict when she will grab a turnip, it's pretty much a grab right there if you can predict it.

 

[_Kadaj_]

Hey I don't play peach but i'm pretty technical with her. I noticed that she can combo INSANELY with her insta-float (Like Insta-float Nair, run Insta-float bair, run Insta-float uair, jab, grab. You can set-up numerous combos from zero like the one I've listed above.)

I don't see alot of peach players doing this so i figured I'd mention it.

You can also **** sheilds pretty well with Insta-float nairs and then switch up and jab sometimes after wards. Because there's absolutly NO lag at all.

The only catch is you have to be really good at it and very fast and coordinated while your doing it.

If you guys get good enough at it it'd be very useful for peach.

I mean you can even lock someone against a wall at 0 until 40 with repeated insta-float bairs or insta-float nairs.

also insta-float uair is really really good and you can get alot of grabs afterwards at low damages or for higher and mid damages you could up tilt or possibly up smash afterwards.

Anyone want to discuss this?

sorry for bombarding your match-up thread with this, I just wanted to help you guys out.

 

[Levitas]

Peach is impossible to thunder jungle, All her aerials easily cancel out the PK thunder, including down air which doesn't even require timing. I punish Ness's pretty bad for trying it because it gives me a free hit as I come down ;D

if it were a matter of that alone, she would be. However, she's biggish and falls slow, so a tailwhip will usually guarantee a bolt hit. Once her DJ is gone, she's gonna have a much harder time avoiding PKT on the basis that her only option to avoid a tail will then be airdodge, which sets up for her to be hit with the bolt.

 

[Earthbound Zero]

I used to secondary Peach, ad I feel the match is very even.

Like Edresse said, if both were to space very well, Ness would probably win with his range. Though Ness does have quite a few combos, Peach has many more and can punish quite well. On the ground, they're pretty even. Peach has a chaingrab on Ness, though Ness can space with his dash attack and Yoyo's which have decent range and priority. Peach has fast attacks on the ground and close range is favorable to her, mid range is favorable to Ness. In the air, Peach has faster options and Ness' options have longer range, both are pretty even there. Off stage, Peach can easily gimp Ness from up close, and with a perfectly aimed turnip. If Ness gets an offstage spike however, Peach won't make it back. ): Ness also can tailwhip Peach very easy, but Peach easily outpriortizes the head of PK1, so just space the head carefully.

Anyway I think it's 50:50. :x If I repeated anything, sorry. I only skimmed the thread. ^^'

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Can someone confirm this? Will Toad stop Pk Thunder? I know her aerials won't stop the tail but will Toad protect her long enough from the tail end (or better yet, will the spores hit the ball part and negate it?)

 

[thesage]

Lol I used to use rising ledgeattack toad in melee against Marths lol.

Does toad have a hitbox below and behind Peach in brawl?

 

[hotgarbage]

You can also **** sheilds pretty well with Insta-float nairs and then switch up and jab sometimes after wards. Because there's absolutly NO lag at all.

Eh, unfortunately this isn't melee :/. Her aerials do have lag... for instance her nair has 11 frames of landing lag, making it not safe on shield; your opponent can easily grab you.

What you said about comboing characters with floated aerials is true though...... but the catch is that you really have to be right next to them to do this, and getting in that kind of position against the better characters in the game is no mean feat; especially considering peach's crap movement speed.

This does need to be looked into though. I'm actually in the process of getting detailed frame data on this type of thing. Hopefully the results will be useful!

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Lol I used to use rising ledgeattack toad in melee against Marths lol.

Does toad have a hitbox below and behind Peach in brawl?

I use rising ledge attacks with Toad all the time. It's a great way to get people who wait for invincibilty frames to go and then attack away from you. Of course you're comlpetely screwed if they predict it...

It has one behind...below, I'm not sure. I would imagine it does - I'm pretty sure Toad covers nearly all of Peach. He's also got invinciblity frames (although I still don't have exact data on when they are. I'm pretty sure they're just after the start up and just before the actual counter comes out)

 

[Gindler]

Fun fact: I noticed when I was playing Ness against a peach that peach bomber goes over PK Fire. So if you hear ness say "PK FIRE!!!" just bomber immediately and you'll hop over the bolt and hit ness during the massive lag pk fire has. Just keep it in mind, it's kinda funny how ridiculous it is. So if you can hear, grounded pkfire isn't very useful in this matchup at all.

Peach and Ness have crazily similar Nairs. Spinning helicopter or w/e. (not important, just notice)

As mentioned before, at about 105 you don't want to be grabbed anywhere on the stage and at about 100 ness' get grab happy (trust me i second him). If he's dashing at you he may run by you and pivot grab which is bad if you expected a normal dash grab and spot dodge right into the pivot grab.

I hate trying to recover with pkt, only to eat turnip after turnip until I'm at a death angle. So peaches should use alot of turnips, if you think you'll get there in time you can go and aerial him but I've killed alot of people at crazy low percent when they mistime it.

Don't airdodge PKT when being juggled. Floaties cannot airdodge it well, try something else anything is a better choice for peach.

 

[thesage]

Pk fire is like never useful lol.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

if it were a matter of that alone, she would be. However, she's biggish and falls slow, so a tailwhip will usually guarantee a bolt hit. Once her DJ is gone, she's gonna have a much harder time avoiding PKT on the basis that her only option to avoid a tail will then be airdodge, which sets up for her to be hit with the bolt.

Maybe it's a case of personal knowledge. Because I know Ness so well, I always can tell if he's giong for the tail whip, and as soon as he busts out PKT I will send my trajectory towards its head and attack it, to prevent myself from being tailwhipped.

 

[thesage]

Maybe it's a case of personal knowledge. Because I know Ness so well, I always can tell if he's giong for the tail whip, and as soon as he busts out PKT I will send my trajectory towards its head and attack it, to prevent myself from being tailwhipped.

I never thought about toading PK thunder. Holy **** that could be ridiculous against Ness.

Or vice is just bad at pkt juggling >_>;

If it works on Azen it MUST WORK.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Hahhahaah, it's not jsut vice. I told peach players i know how to deal with ness and i couldn't do it against their peach with my ness.

 

[thesage]

Maybe you're jsut bad at pkt juggling too?

 

[deepseadiva]

if it were a matter of that alone, she would be. However, she's biggish and falls slow, so a tailwhip will usually guarantee a bolt hit. Once her DJ is gone, she's gonna have a much harder time avoiding PKT on the basis that her only option to avoid a tail will then be airdodge, which sets up for her to be hit with the bolt.

Yea, Edreese, Peach is easy to juggle. She's always going to get hit by either the tail or head. The tail being much more of a problem. It's sooo stupid...