OLD, CLOSED Zero Suit Samus Video Thread (2/2/10)

[Zero]

Oh dear. Dear oh dear.

Never. Use. Fsmash.

Dsmash outclasses it in every way, in a punishing context and it just as safe.

If you want a gtfo move, use ftilt. If they're further away than ftilt range, then why do you need to use a GTFO move?

 

[noradseven]

You should try to get the spacing down for Side Smash and using it a little more when appropriate or as just a handy keep-the-f*ck-away spacing tool.
.

Bring back the f-smash own zone, dazwa!!!!!


Honestly its a bad move with only a few uses that are mostly don't do that smacks in the face or for a killing blow. Or for the one in a million times you need a meaty move on the oppenents landing and they arn't in range of d-smash or d-tilt, and over B would be too slow. Well that is about the only uses I can think of for it, and you will almost never see them that is why the rule of thumb is to just never use it ever.

Also im playing brawl again :D.

 

[Zero]

Bring back the N7!

 

[Cynan Machae]

I've started playing Brawl again and been trying to bring my ZSS to a decent level. I've played quite a lot of games today with Stroumbert (a top player in Quebec) and uploaded a few games (lower quality is because the games were taken from a stream). He's a Ganondorf and Falco main but I think is Snake is pretty decent as well.

vs Snake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0wMq8yOVw0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os50vWYtwxg

vs Falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhWvSEiMlho

vs Ganondorf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r8Gb14f9Rk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB42upwg0oY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89ZURCZITxk


I'd really appreciate any kind of critique regarding my play, whether it would be flaws, things I should incorporate in my playstyle/things that need to be worked on. Maybe some matchup advice, I think I'm doing okay against Snake/Ganon but Falco it's horrible usually <<

 

[Dumbfire]

I was quit hold back by the stream quality.. D:

I played ZSS again after like a year.
Its vs Acenea an MK, I played Cat with ZSS too but that didn't end to well haha.
Xonar might now who Acenea is and lol its quit funny actually
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N94BvbU-Ib0&feature=player_embedded

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

****, he really is that bad.

Nice texture btw : D

 

[Chali]

lol I'm an idiot, that sentence is definitely a typo. I did mean to say Down Smash cuz I noticed he didn't really have the spacing for it down yet.

But yeah you should never use Forward Smash, well when you add in the surprise factor I guess it could have some... no just never use it.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

lol I'm an idiot, that sentence is definitely a typo. I did mean to say Down Smash cuz I noticed he didn't really have the spacing for it down yet.

But yeah you should never use Forward Smash, well when you add in the surprise factor I guess it could have some... no just never use it.

It isn't fair to say you should never use fsmash. It's really good at punishign tech rolls after up+b if you aren't sure where they're going. It's also REALLY good as a surprise, I hit Dark.pch with fsmash more than you'd expect.

 

[Zero]

It isn't fair to say you should never use fsmash. It's really good at punishign tech rolls after up+b if you aren't sure where they're going. It's also REALLY good as a surprise, I hit Dark.pch with fsmash more than you'd expect.

Dsmash punishes 3/4 options as well and is much more profitable.

 

[solecalibur]

failed ftilt -) Fsmash

It saved me in a match once where i meant to ftilt but I fsmashed , I misclicked fsmash but charged it and they spot dodged twice then i hit them xD

 

[Zero]

Got some vids!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O7VUwyE4co - Zero vs Peach (Zxv) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlZiKXTh4Sc - Zero vs Peach (Zxv) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF-VUz8_psE - Zero vs Falco (Scoot) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5nujGw0_5o - Zero vs Falco (Scoot) 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydGCMYsec1c - Zero vs Sonic (Meteor) 3

Despite what they say, these are all tournament matches.

These are friendlies though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfhXfHjeKAI - Zero vs Peach (Zxv)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaG5O_d8kME - Zero vs Scoot (Snake)

Anyway some fresh, unbiased insights would be appreciated. Also if you can spot any bad habits, let me know!

OH YEAH, these vids aren't as old as they're dated. They're 31/10, not 31/05, lmao.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Got some vids!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O7VUwyE4co - Zero vs Peach (Zxv) 1

UH, OK. First, this Peach is playing the match-up so wrong that I don't even know where to begin. But I guess that isn't reall your problem.

Second, stop down-b kicking onto the stage. There are some characters you can get away with this against, but Peach punishes it for free. While she's floating her 3-frame nair will cut your nuts off and while she's grounded, she can usmash you, even through the kick. Haven't even talked about the charged fsmashes, the Toads, the... ugh, I could go on forever. Just don't do it, even if Zxv repeatedly let you get away with it here.

There were definitely a few beautiful reads here, particularly at 2:45... very very nice.

If Peach is jabbing your shield, or fair/dair->jab, there isn't anything you can do but stand there and eventually have your shield break, spot dodge, or roll. As a result you are pretty much guaranteed to take a lot of damage when you shield, especially at early percents where Peach can just mash buttons and deal like 60% damage. I would avoid being close to her, and if you are, attempt to jab to get away. Peach can't catch you, so camping her is the way to go. Overall, I'd say you were much too aggressive.

Don't side-b when Peach is floating.

ALWAYS fast fall your second uair when juggling Peach to reach the ground faster, You won't hit her with a third one, and if you land on the ground you have the opportunity to juggle her again. I've managed 7-uair+ juggles on Peach using this technique.

Zxv likes to jump after being jabbed, abuse it.

 

[Nefarious B]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF-VUz8_psE - Zero vs Falco (Scoot) 1

Yeah you should definitely watch with the down b onto the stage. From what I can tell you're doing a drop down 2nd jump down b to get that angle. It's never a good idea to use your two recovery tools so quickly, if you get hit out of that, like you should have been when you challenged Scoot charging an Fsmash, then you would have been dead against any competent opponent.

This Falco didn't seem very good at controlling the stage in my opinion, he was always at the edge and didn't abuse phantasm to not get trapped there. Against a defensive falco, if you get them cornered against the edge, you should be ready for the phantasm or the roll behind. Normally these are difficult to cover at the same time for ZSS, one of the main reasons he beats us IMO. This falco wasn't abusing phantasm as much as he should have, so I think you could have covered the roll better.

With your edge guarding you seem reluctant to leave the stage ever. He was off the stage a lot, yet you never challenge his phantasm recoveries directly, instead opting to try and intercept with side b or dsmash, which really only worked on that first kill. I think you could have made use of jab edgeguards because he liked to phantasm onto the stage when he was far off the stage. I like to drop below the stage and rising fair as well, because a lot of falcos have it in their heads that their only two options are to phantasm low onto the stage or onto the edge, and fair will beat both of those.

 

[solecalibur]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17Iv9bHybvU

pat g vs doom

 

[Zero]

Pat needs to hitconfirm dsmash much better, and needs to fast fall airdodge a lot more.

 

[Dakpo]

Dakpo vs Espy

Match 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-L89itmq2k
Match 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_rAvtIOl_w&feature=related

i learned to never grab....they can run across stage and punish with Fsmash.
Tips/ advice? also plz dont remind me to not Fsmash... i know

 

[Dakpo]

also: we dont go frame positive when teching the Dthrow to jab but characters like ike do?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You must DI down iirc

 

[Dumbfire]

Nice games Dakpo.

 

[NickRiddle]

also: we dont go frame positive when teching the Dthrow to jab but characters like ike do?

I learned afterwards.
DI down + Tech + u-tilt.
We're positive enough for that.

 

[Dakpo]

nick did anyone get your matches vs X?

 

[Snakeee]

My set a couple weeks ago vs Fatal...well games 1 and 2 anyway. He won the set on game 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRTpnG6YJnE

 

[NickRiddle]

nick did anyone get your matches vs X?

Nope.

My set a couple weeks ago vs Fatal...well games 1 and 2 anyway. He won the set on game 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRTpnG6YJnE

I'm watching now. Will critique on Sunday. <3

 

[Dakpo]

My set a couple weeks ago vs Fatal...well games 1 and 2 anyway. He won the set on game 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRTpnG6YJnE

Game 1
0:21 good armor pressure
0:30 dont roll, punish with up tilt, or better yet, you can see that nair from a mile away. Step back and grab.
0:54 Im suprised he let you get away with that roll XD
1:04 roll punish
1:24 I would have gone for a grab, then again you played it safe sooo
1:34 lol hawt
2:00 really nice try, i gotta do that more often. Is it a for sure thing if you buffer Dsmash?
2:11 roll punished
2:31 so if your right next to him jab works?
2:33 roll punish
3:38 same as 0:30
4:02-4:13 get your **** on snakeee :D
4:55 really good dash attack punish
good calm patient playing here
5:55 roll punish
6:00 you can thank sweet jesus that he doesnt know how to properly gimp zss lmao. it might have just caught him off guard.
good comeback though

GAME 2
6:30 nice follow ups
6:50 roll punish
6:56 2008 :D
7:15 .... what an awful place to be. You cant roll and cant attack... the only things i could see to get you out of that awful mess is to either tech off the wall (because you know uptilt is coming) or .....dare i say it? Stand up and down B out lolololol. (But seriously <_<)
7:48 ahh reminds me of why i play zss awesome
8:15 roll punish
also a little trick i love to use with the windmill: Down B goes right through it, as long as you dont kick before hand.
9:10 roll punish

Over all I would have to say you have gotten a lot better since the last time i studied you. You do have a bad rolling habit though I have one too when i fight against high skilled players ( Nerves D Your combos are all there, but you just got out spaced and outsmarted. Really good games, i hope to see you play against another top level player soon

 

[Nefarious B]

Yeah Snakeee solid matches, I'm definitely gonna study these vids to figure out the snake matchup better.

Couple things:
Do you intentionally use the crouch from nB to duck nades? I noticed you did that a couple times against the neutral toss grenade, that was pretty cool, wasn't sure if you meant to

I think every ZS main I've ever seen has the spotdodge to utilt habit. It works alright but Fatal knows, you got punished quite a bit for this. I lost to a Snake in tourney a couple months ago, and asked him afterwards what he did to me, and he specifically pointed that habit out for me as well. Snake punishes it hard obviously

Yeah your roll habit it turrible, try jumping out of shield IMO. You were also using roll just to move sometimes it seemed, when you could easily just walk or foxtrot to space yourself better. Just something to keep in mind

 

[Snakeee]

Yeah Snakeee solid matches, I'm definitely gonna study these vids to figure out the snake matchup better.

Couple things:
Do you intentionally use the crouch from nB to duck nades? I noticed you did that a couple times against the neutral toss grenade, that was pretty cool, wasn't sure if you meant to

I think every ZS main I've ever seen has the spotdodge to utilt habit. It works alright but Fatal knows, you got punished quite a bit for this. I lost to a Snake in tourney a couple months ago, and asked him afterwards what he did to me, and he specifically pointed that habit out for me as well. Snake punishes it hard obviously

Yeah your roll habit it turrible, try jumping out of shield IMO. You were also using roll just to move sometimes it seemed, when you could easily just walk or foxtrot to space yourself better. Just something to keep in mind

I knew about the nB being able to let you duck the nades, but I was really doing it subconsciously...well then again just about everything I do is subconscious >_>

You can't really jump out of shield vs Snake at close quarters, that's the problem and why I had to roll so often in those spots :/ . I admit, I did make a habit of rolling too often otherwise. I was tense, letting anxiety take over again. This really wasn't my best, but it was getting there.

Yeah, that habit is quite common, and is really dangerous of how long that lag is after uptilt.
I've gotten over that spot dodge-uptilt habit as well as most of my other habits now though .


And thanks Dakpo for your analysis I didn't expect you to do that.

I was tense at this tourney, letting anxiety take over again. I've had generalized anxiety disorder and get somewhat frequent panic attacks -_- . Because of that, this really wasn't my best, but it was getting there.I'm playing much better now than I did on this vid because I'm having much more fun with it and have been able to control my anxiety better, but this is good enough to show a bit of the direction I'm taking with ZSS now.

 

[solecalibur]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRIGu_i19MU

thought I posted it

enjoy game 3 and my ****tastic snake

 

[shlike]

My set a couple weeks ago vs Fatal...well games 1 and 2 anyway. He won the set on game 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRTpnG6YJnE

Your play style has changed so much snakeee.

These are just some of the things that I noticed (its kinda hard to put new stuff because dakpo pretty much said everything)

4:05 Nice dsmash mixup, but I think you would've gotten more damage out of a dsmashx2 aerial

4:11 If you would've ran off the stage and down b kicked while landing back on the stage, I'm pretty sure it would've spiked him.

4:57 Nice dash attack punish, I would probably tried to dsmash and then I would've died :3

5:42 Almost cost you the match lol

Props on staying patient and bringing it back

6:55-6:59 Nice read but I'm wondering why you only did dsmash to utilt lol

7:47-7:54 One of the best strings I've seen in a while. I really like your use of up-b (im gonna steal it :3 )

All in all you played very patiently and it worked pretty well for you. Just make sure you dont hesitate in punishing. You did that sometimes. I liked your use of the 2nd hit of fair to kill, and your use of up b in strings. Glad your back in the tourney scene, We missed you


also i have no idea why fatel and alleye di jab combo up lmao. I wish every snake did that

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't have a spotdodge-utilt habit, I do have a spotdodge habit though. =/

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I don't have a spotdodge-utilt HABIT, but I do use it frequently, it's good against some chars obviously, but if they get to close while you're spotdodging you're pretty much ****ed.

Snake can punish shielded utilt with a fsmash though, so watch out

 

[DRN]

Finally got new vids recorded and I need some help. Went to a tourney on the 20th and placed 3rd losing to BigLou and Micaelis. Although I did beat Micaelis in winners semis i ended up losing LF to him. He knows the match up and is one of my training partners which is why i need help.

Anyway the vids are currently only on justin.tv(HD, great quality) so ima post the times according to the matches. Thx in advance :] Color'd for you all cause i know u like it.

Me Vs Micaelis (Mk) 2/3
Time: 0:35:37
http://www.justin.tv/digtalcrachead/b/274247932



Below are all on the same link just different times
Me Vs Micaelis (MK) 3/5
Time: 0:38:54
Me Vs 4God (DDD) His worse and only recorded match against me that day
Time: 0:30:43
Me vs BigLou(Snake, Luigi, then Marth) 3/5 (3-0 T__T)Watch if u wanna c me get read like a book and look like i had just picked up the game :[
Time:0:02:00
http://www.justin.tv/digtalcrachead/b/274255335

 

[FIERCE]

I saw the first set of you vs Micaelis and a few things stood out.

a) I don't think OOS Grab should be used as a punish vs Metaknight UNLESS you're punishing a F-Tilt, anything else is just asking for a smash from him considering his are much faster.

b) When you were shielding Tornado on SV I notice that you never really tilted your shield up and it thus shield poked you. I'd suggest angling your shield upwards and as soon as it starts to look like it'll poke you - roll away and punish with a buffered d-tilt.

c) and on the last note, know what punishes what and at the range it punishes at. For example, if you PS a shuttle loop, you have a guaranteed Up Smash OOS or Up-Air OOS iirc. (: <3

 

[DRN]

I saw the first set of you vs Micaelis and a few things stood out.

a) I don't think OOS Grab should be used as a punish vs Metaknight UNLESS you're punishing a F-Tilt, anything else is just asking for a smash from him considering his are much faster.

b) When you were shielding Tornado on SV I notice that you never really tilted your shield up and it thus shield poked you. I'd suggest angling your shield upwards and as soon as it starts to look like it'll poke you - roll away and punish with a buffered d-tilt.

c) and on the last note, know what punishes what and at the range it punishes at. For example, if you PS a shuttle loop, you have a guaranteed Up Smash OOS or Up-Air OOS iirc. (: <3

Im surprised i didnt point my shield upward at all then since i actually do that too often now and actually my feet get hit in a lot of matches because of it. Yea i missed a lot of grabs this weekend and got punished for them. I usually use them at better times and it helps A LOT, at least for me. Instead of downtilting though i usually roll then dsmash.

 

[D0N]

Man TuRtL, you suck. Who loses to BigLou?

 

[DRN]

Man TuRtL, you suck. Who loses to BigLou?

Lol i know. The only people worse then that are the people who lose to me.....twice.... <3

Btw come back to GA already.

 

[D0N]

lol. I may be back soon. Maybe for the Dec. monthly. I should be able to fly for free anywhere in the US for a time very soon if everything works out.

 

[Zero]

omg don <33

come back to australia~

 

[Asa]

Asa vs CaptainL(Pikachu)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKVCY15XucU

Cheeszeman vs CaptainL(Pikachu)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12Za3m4AdP4

Cheeszeman vs Breez (MK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE37fUuGn0M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjerBzpsPr0

Cheeszeman vs Crisis (Falco)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJluGz3cAg8

Critiques are much appreciated ^.^

 

[Snakeee]

For some reason I'm giving a critique on a critique

I saw the first set of you vs Micaelis and a few things stood out.

a) I don't think OOS Grab should be used as a punish vs Metaknight UNLESS you're punishing a F-Tilt, anything else is just asking for a smash from him considering his are much faster.

No way you can punish f-tilt with grab, not even powershielded. Actually, you can't punish his tilts with anything if he's at the furthest distance. If he's closer (which will be very rarely with competent MK's that can space well) it's possible to punish them with d-tilt and that's probably only with a powershield as well. Usually you just want to try and roll (much preferably forward roll) when shielding tilts. However, it should become very easy for MK to read you on this, and chase- punish you........God I hate this match up -_-

b) When you were shielding Tornado on SV I notice that you never really tilted your shield up and it thus shield poked you. I'd suggest angling your shield upwards and as soon as it starts to look like it'll poke you - roll away and punish with a buffered d-tilt.

Wait, are you trying to say you can punish tornado with d-tilt, or you mean to d-tilt as it ends? If it's the first one, then that is news to me o_O. For the latter, that's very rarely an option against an MK that makes sure not to end the nado close to you. The only thing I really do if I think I have enough time is dash grab him, but it requires good spacing because a lot of the time the MK will Up B approach attempts after nados.

c) and on the last note, know what punishes what and at the range it punishes at. For example, if you PS a shuttle loop, you have a guaranteed Up Smash OOS or Up-Air OOS iirc. (: <3

Yup, up air is always the better option though. If you're not confident in your up air speed/spacing, then I suppose go for the upsmash if he's within that height.

Don't get mad that I did this, you pointed out some good things in the vid and general ZSS issues that should be talked about. I just wanted to clarify a few things.

 

[DRN]

For some reason I'm giving a critique on a critique



Don't get mad that I did this, you pointed out some good things in the vid and general ZSS issues that should be talked about. I just wanted to clarify a few things.

Snakeee critique my actual vids please as well ;o. Of course this applies to anyone else who wants to help. I need to learn as much as i can about what im doing wrong and what im not doing that i should be doing.

Thaaaaaaaanks in advance