OLD, CLOSED Zero Suit Samus Video Thread (2/2/10)

[Z1GMA]

Good, I'll check 'em out.

 

[Z1GMA]

Jeepy (Wario)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdYLgpQU-OY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCFgGo798kI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg5X0PtQ_uQ&feature=related

You're good with the Suit Pieces.
Nice Fox Trotting around, and nice mindgames in general.

I find it hard to punish Wario's airdodge.
With Ganon, all I have to do is Uair x2 or Nair, heh.
Any advice on how to punish his *high* airdodge in the best way(s)?

 

[Nefarious B]

What do you mean high air dodges?

Jeepy likes to float outside my range and mixup airdodging in and dairing in, mostly, with some fair approaches mixed in. I've found that nB works really well against him, because it covers his landing without putting me at too much risk. If I land a nB I get a grab, which is an auto aerial (we can't infinite without a bike piece btw). I don't really expect to land a nB though, it's mostly to force him to shield or dodge, which let's me control his movement.

So I'm pestering him with nB, and he knows he's gonna have to try and get inside my range eventually. Foxtrots can help mess with his spacing and dash attack is really good for hitting him out of airdodges to the ground, so I use both of those liberally if I feel like I know where he's going to land (which becomes more predictable after you've figured the wario's movement patterns out with nB spam).

If I think he's going to dair, uair outright beats it, and often trades for 1 damage to us and 10 to him, so always uair if you expect a dair. A whiffed uair in most situations isn't gonna lead to much more punishment than maybe a nair. One thing I like to do is SH uair to force an airdodge, and either landing nair or bair depending on which side of me they DI, since both are safe on wario's shield and will probably beat anything he tries to do.

Dtilting if they try to land right in front of you is okay also, but i usually try and be as mobile as possible in this matchup (and in general really).

Watch for when they like to double jump, because you can kinda reasonably expect to punish his landing if he's used his double jump. I think staying grounded is generally a better idea in this matchup in the neutral state, since you'll never land a vanilla aerial on wario unless you get a hard read on his airdodge and DI; it's too risky.

Watch for fart patterns as well. There are obvious situations where you're gonna get farted on and can't do much about it, like if you're forced to recover from far away. However, if you don't allow yourself to be put in those situations, Wario has a significantly harder time landing a fart. I've found that if I don't get farted on I win, if I do I lose, in general. I could tell you exactly how Jeepy tries to set up his farts, but I'm sure it's different for every wario

 

[FIERCE]

NefB, when you're in the lead do you usually approach? I only saw Match 2 and I noticed when you had a stock lead you played aggressive, which allowed Jeepy to punish your whiffs. When you're in the lead, play defensive and punish their misspacing/whiffs. It's campy but it really works LOL. I usually just retreat with fair when they approach with those crazy jumpsies. (or I go Peach)

<3u.

 

[Z1GMA]

What do you mean high air dodges?

When he's airdodging high up in the air.
I'm good at punishing his Landing Lag when he's airdodging to the ground,
but when I jump up high to juggle him high in the air, it gets complicated.
I'm having some problems punishing his airdodge + mobility up there.

It's so easy with Ganon's Uair, while it's tricky with ZSS ;\

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Predict when the Wario is gonna jump, Wario's jump a lot and his jump startup is 7 + he has no real quick gtfo aerials. Predict a jump with uair or even dash attack, just make sure he can't see it coming.

 

[solecalibur]

Ninja Link :
Doubles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sxa6a_nHsg&feature=sub

Singles :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww4ePJ7vkxQ

dunno if they where friendlies or not but will was in the doubles video

 

[Nefarious B]

Interesting that he uses fsmash to cover tech rolls. That actually does seem like a legit use for the move :O

 

[NickRiddle]

I'm sorry, but that DDD was ****ing terrible.
Momentum cancelling with fair, **** yeah.
Also, he started to charge f-smash before the DDD rolled. DDD could have used the get-up invincibility frames to punish that f-smash.
Also, punsihing DDD's terrible lag up-b landing with charging u-smash.

 

[solecalibur]

I will agree the d3 suck'd but I always put up zss vids if i find em
the d3 was pretty trash

 

[Dakpo]

wtf is that ninja link's zss? I have to say I am very impressed. Setting aside that the DDD blows , he had great control over armor pieces and the character in general

 

[Dumbfire]

Wow, huge lag on D3s part! Instead of charging a Down smash and chaining a second one + Arial for a good amount of damage, lets charge up smash for only 14 percent!

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

LOL

 

[Asa]

doubles session yesterday:

Hide yo kids hide yo wife (Asa/Cheesze) vs Robo Geisha (Bundt/Kodokan)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txajMhifbJQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llftv8NJqWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W6bG0_MFpA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9rHlXM4-84
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi2rVAOsVbA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zW_t2g-_-o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eH001zYjF4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFx_a2ZIg0A

and some singles:
Asa(MK) vs Cheesze(ZSS)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoO3ZJduGZc

Firefly(MK) vs Cheesze(ZSS)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9syoF29zzoM


Critiques are greatly appreciated ^_^

#1 motivation to win in doubles: hearing the bed intruder song which has replaced zoot's and ness's victory themes

 

[Cynan Machae]

Just watched your games Nefarious, I noticed (in the Marth match especially) that you used Neutral air for retreating purposes. Since I don't use neutral air at all and I want to incorporate it into my play, is this use being fairly consistant and good or those were only some random Nairs?

 

[Nefarious B]

The nice thing about nair is that it gives you a decent-ranged disjointed hitbox on your front side. It's basically your bair in front of you, since it autocancels unlike fair. If someone is trying to catch your landing, it can be a good hitbox to throw out to force a shield, since many characters can't outrange it and won't be able to punish it's range on shield, since it is somewhat safe.

A lot of ZSS players like to try landing with side b and nB instead. This can work depending on spacing, but if your opponent is doing a good job of staying on your ***, you will take lots of damage because those two options aren't fast enough. Watch Nick's second set at MLG Columbus vs Ally, I think it's a really good example of where nair could have been used to land, and he gets punished for trying to side b or nB instead.

 

[Zero]

nair also relies on spacing if your opponent is on point, unless it's spaced perfectly you'll get grabbed. other options can be beaten with jab/downB/other escapes

 

[Sovereign]

I've got videos vs. HadesBlade(Yoshi) and Count(Diddy) comin' up soon. You guys should be proud of my progress.



Sovereign(ZSS) vs. Count(Diddy)

Round 1
Round 2(Sovereign's CP)
Round 3(Sovereign's CP)

Sovereign(ZSS) vs. HadesBlade(Yoshi)

Round 1
Round 2(Sovereign's CP)
Round 3(Sovereign's CP)
Round 4(HadesBlade's CP)

Tell me what you think. Critique any vid you wish. I'll be studying these myself. I blatantly missed obvious attacks in a few of these, just so that you know I'm conscious of it, when you view these. Why? I don't know.

 

[solecalibur]

Good games but you had quite a few patterns (especially game 1 vs count) I could nit pick out and Norfair wasnt a good choice for diddy and yoshi imo , just because if they gain control of the middle platform (and stay there) its very difficult to approach both characters and the best solution is to just wait for the lava to rise or force your own control on this stage
Also what stages did they ban?
@count I'd probly take him to halberd/brinstar/frigate (ban FD)
@hades I'd probly take him to Halberd/frigate/brinstar (banning pictochat)

 

[NickRiddle]

I've got videos vs. HadesBlade(Yoshi) and Count(Diddy) comin' up soon. You guys should be proud of my progress.



Sovereign(ZSS) vs. Count(Diddy)

Round 1
Round 2(Sovereign's CP)
Round 3(Sovereign's CP)

Sovereign(ZSS) vs. HadesBlade(Yoshi)

Round 1
Round 2(Sovereign's CP)
Round 3(Sovereign's CP)
Round 4(HadesBlade's CP)

Tell me what you think. Critique any vid you wish. I'll be studying these myself. I blatantly missed obvious attacks in a few of these, just so that you know I'm conscious of it, when you view these. Why? I don't know.

vs. Count
Game 1

0:36
"Hey ZSS. I'm pulling out a banana. Please don't hit me."
You: Okay.

3:22
Guaranteed contact with u-tilt is better than trying for the uair/bair.
Diddy doesn't die at 119.


Game 2

0:18 - 0:34
You're winning, but you're approaching, and taking damage because of it. You're not even winning the exchanges, just getting less and less in the lead.

0:34
Because you tried to approach towards Norfair's strongest point, you are now losing. Don't do that. Brawl, baby~

1:58
The more moves you throw out, the more time spent not being able to shield/dodge.
This gets you killed by the uair in a couple of seconds. Be patient, and if you don't like your position, jump to the other side. ZSS jumps really ****ing high.

2:53
AD > Pause > up-b.
Why the pause?

4:57
Charging d-smash vs. Diddy, while you are above him is a terrible idea. If he wanted, at any time, he can run off platform > throw nanner up > combo off of the trip.
Stop it~


Match 3

0:00
Back to Norfair? Real men go back to the CP they lost on.

0:34
Charging d-smash was a good way to force him high... but when he went high you continued to charge d-smash...
PUNISH WHAT YOU SET UP, SON!!

2:02
Down-b?

2:11
*See 4:57 of match 2. Told you so~*

2:16
See Diddy charging any smash.
Tether ledge quickly, and get ready to punish the lag.


vs. Hadesblade
Match 1

Basically the entire match:
I'm sorry, but did you forget how shields work?
They're this protective bubble that can stop eggs from exploding on you.
Seriously, how many of those things are you going to let hit you?

Also, Yoshi on the edge can only shoot 5 eggs qhile regrabbing the ledge.
Just throwing that out there.


Match 2/3/4

I don't really watch anymore Yoshi, sorry.

Don't take Yoshi to Norfair/Halberd. Tiny, tiny, tiny ceiling. Yoshi's best kill moves send you up. Lower ceiling = easy kills.

Also, he didn't seem confident/good at the cg, so flat stages were okay... but not striking FD against Yoshi? For real?

 

[Asa]

D:

10sadface

 

[Dakpo]

hawaii Mks gimp hard, good stuff. That zss need to make a few better choices in moves though, to lazy to specify

 

[solecalibur]

vs. Count

Also, Yoshi on the edge can only shoot 5 eggs qhile regrabbing the ledge.
Just throwing that out there.

wait , really?

 

[Sovereign]

All this is great help. Thanks so much. I'll keep this in mind, and the next time I play these people, I should win.

 

[Cheeszeman_]

Anyone think they can critique my vids?
I'll love you forevvveeeerrrrr!!! <333

doubles session yesterday:

Hide yo kids hide yo wife (Asa/Cheesze) vs Robo Geisha (Bundt/Kodokan)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txajMhifbJQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llftv8NJqWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W6bG0_MFpA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9rHlXM4-84
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi2rVAOsVbA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zW_t2g-_-o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eH001zYjF4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFx_a2ZIg0A

and some singles:
Asa(MK) vs Cheesze(ZSS)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoO3ZJduGZc

Firefly(MK) vs Cheesze(ZSS)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9syoF29zzoM


Critiques are greatly appreciated ^_^

#1 motivation to win in doubles: hearing the bed intruder song which has replaced zoot's and ness's victory themes

 

[Nefarious B]

On your match against Firefly

Do you DI downwards? You got slammed on the ground a couple times after getting hit, and that led you into a tech chase where you took more damage. Airdodge or something before you hit the ground so that doesn't happen.

You get up off the ledge the same way every time pretty much. He didn't punish it, but you have to be really carefuly about that, especially the specific way you were getting up. If he hits you out of a drop down 2nd jump aerial, you're dead pretty much.

Your recovery in general was pretty sloppy.

You should buffer a move after hitting a shield with dsmash. Go over its frame data so you can internalize what you should be buffering depending on the spacing, but you shouldn't be getting punished for hitting a shield with dsmash unless they predict your followup.

Lastly you could work on your edgeguarding. Against MK you usually can't do much more than try and dsmash a sloppy recovery, but you can tack on a lot of damage as they try and recover from the ledge onto the stage again.

Other than that you seem like a fine intermediate ZSS like myself, you have the basics down and need refining.

 

[FIERCE]

In the match on Yoshi's island, I would have kept at least two of the suit pieces, I'm not quite sure why you threw them off.

Yoshi's island is an AMAZING stage for suit pieces, especially since the platform slants, the pieces can bounce until they hit the floor, allowing for pretty fun stage control, if not a good bait.

When you're recovering from the ledge, I find the best thing to do is to Flip Jump/Tether a few times just to see how the opponent would have retaliated to a get up attack. If you notice at 1:00, Asa already had the tornado brewing before you had jumped, had you attacked with a Flip Jump kick he might have been dead or at least been in a bad position.

1:45, if you're going to roll in any direction, at least don't roll in the direction closest to the edge of the stage, if you would have rolled forward you may have had a chance to salvage that stock with good DI.

3:02: Uncharged Downsmash at that range? EEk!

3:30: You're tethering way too long, just roll onto the stage if he's being edge-guardy, you could have made it back. ZSS Recovery is good but not when Metaknight is being aggressive like that, if you would have gotten up from the ledge and he Up+B'd you at least you would have had your 2 jumps and Flip back for another recovery chance.

Your ZSS is fun, but your bait & punish game needs a little work. The Metaknight matchup is the one that really relies on that type of framework so learn some baits with easy punishes and you can be fine.


Sorry, I don't post much on this thread but I pwomise I'm pretty gewd at this matchup.

Ask Nef B, we play in the same tourney scene. <3

 

[Nefarious B]

Fierce is hawt

 

[Zero]

I wish people played in my tourney scene. :>

 

[vato_break]

needs more warpstatus videos

 

[solecalibur]

I've been working on my 2ndarys way to much , I'll be sure to give you an updated video of my zss once I get a chance, but im sure she is getting rustyish since I've been playing nothing but my 2ndary lately

edit - that and my item control has gone to hell

 

[culexus・wau]

So.

who wants to be cool and record videos for me. :3

http://www.mediafire.com/?heukfzdja55bgbi

or at least look at the replays before I inevitably record them, [tomorrow]

Warning: not all of them are zero suit lol. I have a few matches VS Oki's G&W though.

 

[culexus・wau]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE_qGOis0fs

still processing and no sound because I forgot to set sound recording to dazzle.

just watch it with some music or something :>

 

[Zero]

I've given you critique. :>

 

[FIERCE]

FlamewaveK, were you asking for ZSS advice, or match-up advice, or recovery advice? You could use a little of all three but since you're going from Lucario to ZSS your match-up approach was pretty outrageous g0rl. If there's one of the 3 more important to your let a sista know and I'll review you match accordingly.

 

[culexus・wau]

all 3.

:3

 

[Nefarious B]

Agreed with Fierce lol. Next time we're at a tourney together I'll show you how to use the items. Your approach worked because your opponent was retardedly running into the same thing every time, but it can definitely use some work.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Here are my most recent matches against Snake:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz_wp_22QcQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvGiP...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OstBf_4zink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUMAq...eature=related

And here are a few falco.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IXmE_h-WWw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P22hDk38Ko4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkYQwLVo74Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiTfge-1vgE

Obviously the falco's are god awful. So don't judge. Just help me out.
Spot any bad habits? Etc.

 

[Chali]

*snip videos*

Obviously the falco's are god awful. So don't judge. Just help me out.
Spot any bad habits? Etc.

I think the first time you used Down Tilt was the last game against Snake which honestly, should be nuff said. Use it a little more, I think you'll instantly learn to love it.

Your close-range combat needs some work. You should try using more Jab 1, Forward Tilt, and the aforementioned Down Tilt. At least in your matches against Snake not using those moves was a good thing since his tilts and Neutral A can punish ZSS' pretty badly.

You should try to get the spacing down for Side Smash and using it a little more when appropriate or as just a handy keep-the-f*ck-away spacing tool.

Also I didn't see enough SH Back Air. It comes in handy especially against tall characters *cough*Snake*cough*cough*

What I did see too much of was your grab. Sure you'll end up grabbing a few times but dont get to reliant on it.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

You should try to get the spacing down for Side Smash and using it a little more when appropriate or as just a handy keep-the-f*ck-away spacing tool.

DarkWater has returned!