OLD, CLOSED Zero Suit Samus Video Thread (2/2/10)

[xxpatgxx]

Thanks for the feedback Nick Riddle, I'll continue to work and take notes.

 

[Nefarious B]

Here's some more to critique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgzQsZp3YQ0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbY8KPNf_qA

Second one starts at 1:15

So yeah my recovery sucks, can't get around nades, don't punish marth well enough, predictable when it comes to getting kills, didn't grab once in entire set I think?... I suck yeah. It's a work in progress

I had jitters pretty bad that first game, hence random fsmashes and throwing pieces off stage instead of down

My own personal notes:

Game 1:
-Usmash>uair if snake is consistently landing with nades, mix up with up b in the air
-He only spot dodged 14 times the entire game
-I grabbed once, out of a nB. I hardly used nB at all
-After getting hit high up, like with a utilt, I got punished for trying to land with side b
-I chose to approach through nades with SHs rather than run and shield
-Horrible lack of ground moves altogether, I used utilt to punish, some DAs, no dtilts

Game 2:
-Got punished super hard for down bs
-Missed a lot of punishes on Marth's ground game (2:14, freakin PSed fsmash)
-Didn't edgeguard effectively, could use some input on how to do this. Didn't ledge trap well either
-Got punished for predictability coming off the edge
-Didn't grab
-Marth's rising fair is very punishable, especially if shielded

 

[LanceStern]

cool vids, just my thoughts without checking your notes

Game 1:
First off I always liked your suit piece game... it frustrates me haha

The most immediate thing that comes to my mind in game 1 if nothing else is that 1st stock from the moment snake hit ~115% you stopped moving and stopped pressuring him. You seemed content to stand on the other side of the stage, sometimes even standing still and shielding or waiting. I can understand it's hard for ZSS to pressure a shield-spammer, but trying to camp out snake on the other side is almost suicide because it gave him time to rethink and lay some mines/pull out grenades, and he started controlling the stage. Those grenades shut you down o_o.

I'd say always be moving or doing SOMETHING even if you've establishing your spacing. I'm not condoning throwing out empty moves, but don't let your opponent get in the mindset "oh he's far away and can't do anything, I'm safe for now".. Plus always keep the pressure on snake but at a reasonable distance. His tilts are dangerous sure, but you can get away with some neutral bs or side bs on snake at a reasonable distance without being punished, and it can force him into a more panicked and reckless mindset.

At around 3:00 (start of second stock) you did a really good job of moving and spacing at a distance close enough to unnerve him. He really started to run away and pull out grenades at that point which was unfortunate, but your execution was done really well. I wanted to see more dash attacks after you read a roll or his own DACUS, but at the same time those grenades stopped it. Really nasty nade spam that game.



Game 2:
I'm not too familiar at all with the ZSS/Marth matchup, and I don't do too well against marths anyways.

- At 4:20 you threw out a grounded side B when he was a couple inches in front, and 4:36 missed a chance to punish, plus at 5:20 threw a side B the wrong direction.. input error or tight?
+ Your suit piece game was spot on again, but he got control of one piece and did a good chunk of damage.
+ Also I think you might have to be a little more gutsy and bait/punish his aerials. When you hopped close to him he usually responded with an advancing full hop fair or nair. I don't know how zss punishes that but it's gotta be done.
+ You started doing cross ups REALLY nice by your third stock and almost got a comeback. I'd like to see more of that
- With that said, you could be a little more safer with the spacing. some bairs against his shield (when you started the nice crossups on the third stock) I think should have been punished with his dolphin slash. And you got hit a few times for a laggy down B or neutral B a few inches away from him.

How useful is dash attack or fair against a marth in the air? He chose to full hop his fairs and nairs and it seemed like you may have had a chance to do something about his landings although he stayed grounded a little more than I'm used to seeing a marth be.

All I can really say on that one is it seemed you got a little tight, it's unfortunate what happened to your second stock. You don't suck, You'll get it next time.

Perhaps a ZSS main could help more.

 

[FIERCE]

I just skimmed through your comments about the matches Nef (forgive me).

Sake Hato is the campiest snake player I have EVER had the honor of playing.


But I just noticed you stayed on the opposite side of battlefield while he DACUS'd across the other side, he was OBVIOUSLY nade-camping you hard but you kept approaching the same way. Next time I'd suggest throwing them back, or even better just reverse glide toss them so you land closer to him.

Also, it's better if you punish his tilts with dtilts or (if you ps them) grab.

You got a little crazy with the attacks when he already had nades in his hands which made you take a lot of damage. Use a bit more neutral B when you get a chance (and when it's safe).

utilt vs snake really isn't that amazing.


I'd comment on the second match but the Marth matchup is something you just need to work on. Crawl more when he's trying to fair you.

<3fierce.


Lance you play ZSS?

 

[LanceStern]

@fierce...Nah I wish. Although I've been toying around with her, I'm thinking of carrying around a pocket ZSS (or marth) with Samus. If only I could transform in the middle of the match like I'm supposed to, then I could just use the pieces to KO rather than risk coming in.

I was up and I analyze better than I actually play haha. I can only give general comments not specific "oh use your dtilts here and neutral B here" etc.

 

[solecalibur]

The snake never throws in the neutral position (throws upward cant remember there term for it) so I dont see why a soild approach wouldnt work (just avoid loltilt) , DACUS I could see a number of moves out ranging it but of course im sure you know what moves do but you have to keep the pressure on and make it predictable for him to ,

@FIERCE Hi again =D

When recovering I also down B first in the situation you tried at the end of game 1


For game 2
refer to my video I was about to post lol
Neutral A stops marth's throwing armor pieces unless its a hard throw nonglide toss\
Down throw glide toss moar
You also seem to have 2 or 3 moves only after a glide toss , need to mix it up or just wait for an opening
Let marth approach , if there trying to time you out follow this guide
-) lol -) I dont have an answer for you I've never had a marth not approach
also work on your stage control a bit when there on the edge dont let them get back on the stage if you can control it , play rock paper scissors when he is attempting to recover



my vid vs marth on FD >.> (ignore game 3 I did silly things lol)
Critque pl0x
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwjMLCvpy3c

 

[NickRiddle]

Here's some more to critique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgzQsZp3YQ0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbY8KPNf_qA

Second one starts at 1:15

So yeah my recovery sucks, can't get around nades, don't punish marth well enough, predictable when it comes to getting kills, didn't grab once in entire set I think?... I suck yeah. It's a work in progress

I had jitters pretty bad that first game, hence random fsmashes and throwing pieces off stage instead of down

My own personal notes:

Game 1:
-Usmash>uair if snake is consistently landing with nades, mix up with up b in the air
-He only spot dodged 14 times the entire game
-I grabbed once, out of a nB. I hardly used nB at all
-After getting hit high up, like with a utilt, I got punished for trying to land with side b
-I chose to approach through nades with SHs rather than run and shield
-Horrible lack of ground moves altogether, I used utilt to punish, some DAs, no dtilts

Game 2:
-Got punished super hard for down bs
-Missed a lot of punishes on Marth's ground game (2:14, freakin PSed fsmash)
-Didn't edgeguard effectively, could use some input on how to do this. Didn't ledge trap well either
-Got punished for predictability coming off the edge
-Didn't grab
-Marth's rising fair is very punishable, especially if shielded

Nef:

Game 1:

1:07
Right here is a perfect place to grab/down-smash. Once you see Snake ISN'T jumping out of the way, outspace his bair, and throw out one of these moves. (D-smash is better for damage at 37%)

When Snake gets to 115%:
nah man, it's k. I'll just wait for Snake to NEVER approach. That'll help me win!
Also, his nade game is pretty... meh... from what I've seen so far.

2:28
Why would you stall here when the Snake ran away. It's like he said, "Please get back on the stage. Watch out for my slow-as-**** side-b.

4:05
When you see Snake going high, jump on one of the platforms so you can chase him easier.
Also, boost jump.

5:14
That boost jump could have been game if he reacted. Why no attempt to hit him with a side-b here?

5:55
You could have reacted to him blowing up his C4 with a grab or a dash attack.


Game 2:

1:27
Jumping backwards with Nair... why?

1:34
Punish the obvious air-dodging to the ground. Landing frames are your friend.

1:50
Right after the second hit of nair, you can throw armor down, without hesitation, and it will hit.

2:13
PS a f-smash, andy our punish is jump...
D-tilt here.

2:56
You have got to be kidding me...
Tether as fast as you can. NEVER go for the stall like you did, or that will ALWAYS happen. Marth's dair has LOTS of lag.

4:24
You basically asked Marth to please tipper you.

4:34
OH NO HE'S CHARGING SHIELD BREAKER AND IS GOING TO LAND IN A PREDICTABLE AREA! **** D-SMASH!

5:15
Sometimes charging paralyzer where marth cannot hit you is a good thing.


Overall:
Your punishes need work. Gotta get better at knowing what moves have lag, where they have it, and reading where people are going to land. (In lag, landing frames.)
Also, you asked for edgeguarding help.
You cannot really edgeguard Marth. Offstage, his moves just beat yours. You can try to d-smash his up-b, but that's not consistent. What you SHOULD be doing, is when Marth grabs the edge, just get right out of his range, and either d-smash or d-tilt when you see him use his aerial. If he doesn't aerial, quickly dash-attack him back off the stage. Marth sucks on the edge, abuse it.

The snake never throws in the neutral position (throws upward cant remember there term for it) so I dont see why a soild approach wouldnt work (just avoid loltilt) , DACUS I could see a number of moves out ranging it but of course im sure you know what moves do but you have to keep the pressure on and make it predictable for him to ,

@FIERCE Hi again =D

When recovering I also down B first in the situation you tried at the end of game 1


For game 2
refer to my video I was about to post lol
Neutral A stops marth's throwing armor pieces unless its a hard throw nonglide toss\
Down throw glide toss moar
You also seem to have 2 or 3 moves only after a glide toss , need to mix it up or just wait for an opening
Let marth approach , if there trying to time you out follow this guide
-) lol -) I dont have an answer for you I've never had a marth not approach
also work on your stage control a bit when there on the edge dont let them get back on the stage if you can control it , play rock paper scissors when he is attempting to recover



my vid vs marth on FD >.> (ignore game 3 I did silly things lol)
Critque pl0x
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwjMLCvpy3c

Sole:

0:36
Dash-dancing? Why not move more under Marth, so you can actually... hit him?

0:52
Jab > Jab > Marth up-b is a combo y'know. Be careful of that.

2:17
You were asking Marth to fair you.

4:23
In case you didn't know, you were basically dead here. Please tell the Marth player to not miss gimp attempts.

5:15
You can punish this if you see it. Double jump fair.

6:40
Flip-kick is unpunishable I guess.

Overall:
Not much to say to you. If I mained Marth, I'd be yelling at your opponent though. -.-
Also, you need help with the Marth on edge thing too.

 

[solecalibur]

Marth's edge game is so brokenn lol I said not to watch game 3 >.>
I needed to take my time / dtilt/ftilt more
derp time to train with shugo b4 apex

 

[Dakpo]

here is me getting ***** by infinity as well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfZXwX8Bf24
i know i nut B to much.....i gotta work on that

 

[Nefarious B]

Sole I like how you landing trapped Marth with nB. I was amazed that you didn't get ***** harder for trying to grab his landing fairs. Seriously, that **** dun work. Or for all those flipkicks for that matter

 

[solecalibur]

I need to encourage the guy to upload my vids from my lastest tounry i went to about 2 weeks ago thats when I was rly doing good I thought i was on a considerably slump when i was at that smashfest

 

[solecalibur]

Double post for

Set 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvBjvmcjtp4 Game 1 & 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qhuTyqYaj4 Game 3
R.O.B.

Set 2 (diff R.O.B.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjG-rQb6CAU
Im doing it wrong? lol (win set 1)

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

If I had to suggest anything it would be attempting to stay out of ROB's frontal zone (easier said that done, I know). His tilts give ZSS trouble. You can jab combo him, though, something to keep in mind.

Also, patience when you get him in the air. When you follow him I noticed he reads you pretty well.

 

[NickRiddle]

Double post for

Set 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvBjvmcjtp4 Game 1 & 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qhuTyqYaj4 Game 3
R.O.B.

Set 2 (diff R.O.B.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjG-rQb6CAU
Im doing it wrong? lol (win set 1)

Set 1
Match 1:

0:08
Do not try to beat attacks with armor. EVERYTHING turns armor from an ASP (Active suit piece) to an ISP (inactive suit piece.)

0:17
You're ZSS. Your jump is amazing. Jump up there and hit the *****!

0:45
You obviously tried to bait an air-dodge, but when you saw it wasn't going to happen, why didn't you land with an up-b? You could have hit him, or forced and air-dodge to punish when he landed.

1:14
Did you mean to charge f-smash? D-smash would have been so much better here.

1:53
Even though the ROB died, did you try to tether the ledge instead of hit him here? Why?


Match 2:

5:58
While I am a HUGE advocate of d-smash, d-tilt would have hit here, and led into a combo.

6:20
Drop shield > d-tilt would have hit.


Match 3:

Only one thing to say. When you kill your opponent here, or anywhere that you can hit stuff, single jab or d-smash those things, to refresh your moves. (Obviously not after you die, but if you have used any move you like to use.)
Even though you're not looking for the fresh kill power, the small extra % helps.


Set 2:
I'll do this later.

 

[solecalibur]

If I had to suggest anything it would be attempting to stay out of ROB's frontal zone (easier said that done, I know). His tilts give ZSS trouble. You can jab combo him, though, something to keep in mind.

Also, patience when you get him in the air. When you follow him I noticed he reads you pretty well.

Person I play a ton, he can make a flow charts of my habits

And thx for crituqe I'm kind of fructrated at this mu already lol

 

[shlike]

some friendlies against sonic at tourney two months ago

i'm probably the most grab happy zss main out there.

10 badhabits

Shlike vs Tesh 1

Shlike vs Tesh 2


Shlike vs Tesh 3 if you watch any one video watch this one

Shlike vs Tesh 4

there's a fifth game that i lose but i can only see in it his channel for some reason :/

anyway,

I notice that I'm either wrecking or getting wrecked, nick/whoever how do you keep from losing momentum/keeping consistency and cool?

I lose tourney matches because of this.

Halp pls.

 

[NickRiddle]

some friendlies against sonic at tourney two months ago

i'm probably the most grab happy zss main out there.

10 badhabits

Shlike vs Tesh 1

Shlike vs Tesh 2


Shlike vs Tesh 3 if you watch any one video watch this one

Shlike vs Tesh 4

there's a fifth game that i lose but i can only see in it his channel for some reason :/

anyway,

I notice that I'm either wrecking or getting wrecked, nick/whoever how do you keep from losing momentum/keeping consistency and cool?

I lose tourney matches because of this.

Halp pls.

You get used to it.
That just means you have your good times, and your bad times.
Also, when does it seem like you're losing momentum?
There's when you're losing, and you feel like you cannot catch up. If this is the case... stop thinking that? ANYTHING can happen, even MK SDing.
There's when you're winning, where you feel like it's too easy so you don't have to play your hardest. If this is the case, always assume you're losing.
There's when you're going up against somebody "better" than you, or somebody with a "big name." If this is the case, remember everybody is human, makes mistakes, and that you can always win. If all else fails, do not go into thiese matches to win, go into them to learn.

I'll try to critique your vids later. I have 0 exp. vs. Sonic, so some things I say may make no sense.

 

[shlike]

You get used to it.
That just means you have your good times, and your bad times.
Also, when does it seem like you're losing momentum?
There's when you're losing, and you feel like you cannot catch up. If this is the case... stop thinking that? ANYTHING can happen, even MK SDing.
There's when you're winning, where you feel like it's too easy so you don't have to play your hardest. If this is the case, always assume you're losing.
There's when you're going up against somebody "better" than you, or somebody with a "big name." If this is the case, remember everybody is human, makes mistakes, and that you can always win. If all else fails, do not go into thiese matches to win, go into them to learn.

I'll try to critique your vids later. I have 0 exp. vs. Sonic, so some things I say may make no sense.

Yeah everything you're saying makes a lot of sense. I let my guard down whenever I'm winning or whenever I land a good string of hits and what not. I do that A LOT, and I never noticed that. Thanks for that. Also yeah, I've beaten some 'big' names because I kept my cool and believed that I could win. I just need to do that all the time. That comes with experience I guess. Thanks

 

[Magik0722]

just stop doing that dsmash to shutter step side b thing you always do against sonic, because it doesnt work on him.

 

[Rybaia]

Shlike your ZSS is very nice.
Nice job.

 

[NickRiddle]

BEHOLD! THE ZSS WHO HAS TAKEN ZSS FAR BEYOND ANYTHING ANY OTHER ZSS COULD HAVE POSSIBLY DONE!

10orly

 

[shlike]

BEHOLD! THE ZSS WHO HAS TAKEN ZSS FAR BEYOND ANYTHING ANY OTHER ZSS COULD HAVE POSSIBLY DONE!

10orly

lmfao

i liked snakeee's playstyle for being fast

but he's mad slow now

metaknight be the answer now

 

[Rybaia]

BEHOLD! THE ZSS WHO HAS TAKEN ZSS FAR BEYOND ANYTHING ANY OTHER ZSS COULD HAVE POSSIBLY DONE!

10orly

Nick I love you. <3

I get infracted for saying that his "new 2010 style" looks like mine in early 2009.
But I wasn't trolling at all. That's actually the truth.

 

[shlike]

Nick I love you. <3

I get infracted for saying that his "new 2010 style" looks like mine in early 2009.
But I wasn't trolling at all. That's actually the truth.

LOL

yeah i was thinking this


ROFL

my early 2009 style was garbage btw

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Tourny match vs GDX

Match 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOSRz0IqVkI
Match 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w_G5HORH6I

and some LULZies vs HRNut (which are somewhat serious)

Match 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIkKlnrx9YY
Match 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN0Qo956ONk
Match 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw0ystiFZdc (please don't ask why I just stand there taking Ftilts all day, I just did)

I also have the bad habit of jabbing after dsmash when the opponent is at low percent. I should just dsmash twice like Riddle tells me to.

 

[Nefarious B]

Hey guys just got some more videos posted from the same tourney, this is first round winner's bracket:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilUcc9noAOk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilUcc9noAOk&feature=related

Couple notes for myself:

He really showed me how predictable I am OOS with his kills
He landing traps like a pro, I'm going to take notes
Learn to dsmash chain nub

Edit: New York has been pretty cool, SFP I thought I saw you initially while I was walking around Manhattan but I don't think it was actually you

 

[Nefarious B]

*Bump* I thought it'd be easy to critique seeing as how we very recently did the Fox matchup discussion. Snakeee I know you got that rookie xp, enlighten meh

 

[Snakeee]

*Bump* I thought it'd be easy to critique seeing as how we very recently did the Fox matchup discussion. Snakeee I know you got that rookie xp, enlighten meh

I don't like watching vids, but I'll give you a simple rundown of the MU.

If they're good, and know about ZSS at all, use d-smash almost NEVER. Not even to punish them in the air because you'll just get d-air comboed. You actually will have them in advantageous spots BECAUSE they will be playing in a way to try and avoid and exploit d-smash. Of course if they catch on to this strategy, then you can start throwing them in here and there for that free stock

 

[Dumbfire]

Watching videos is awesome, it reminds you of how good that guy is and you are not!
Well, at least for me.. =/

 

[solecalibur]

I wish there was a spectate mode of people that actually KNOW how to play the game and not just spammer that do nothing but dash attack -.-

 

[da K.I.D.]

I'll try to critique your vids later. I have 0 exp. vs. Sonic, so some things I say may make no sense.

money match at MLG dallas?

 

[Nefarious B]

Dtorr I would critique your vids but I have very little Diddy xp, and I like how you play against Snake better than I do so...

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Thanks for the compliment, Nefarious

 

[NickRiddle]

money match at MLG dallas?

Hell yeah.
I'll figure something out.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Nefarious if you're in NYC why don't you stop by and play a few?

 

[Nefarious B]

I'm in Boston now, leaving Monday :/

 

[xxpatgxx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5qKsCrudo

My ZSS vs Vex's ICs

Help me guys!!!

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

@PatG:

Dont' dash attack before 20%, especially versus the Ice Climbers. It's not safe on hit.
I would not recommend using dsmash as a trap in this match-up. In all match-ups you risk a grab, but vs. ICs, that's really bad obviously.


Anyway this match-up is pretty bad on some stages because of the way ZSS' moves are built. None of them have high enough KBG to be safe at low percents. Ftilt, utilt, fsmash, dash attack, jab, and even uair can all be punished on hit at low percents because they moves don't do enough knockback damage early on.

Vs. many characters you can kind of get away with it but the Ice Climbers will make you hate life. Early on in matches, I would gauge the ICs ability to PS side-b (it is VERY HARD for both ICs to PS) and deal with paralyzer shot, and then I would attempt to use safer moves to build damage until your other moves start to send ICs to tumble.

That's all I got.

 

[NickRiddle]

I had a writeup, and Smashboards ate it.
Don't u-tilt shields, ever. You did it twice, got grabbed twice.
Kill Nana whenevery ou get the chance.
Bair/D-smash are your friends in the IC MU,
Also, Vex enjoyed running in and shielding. Grab that. Even if Popo dodges, odds are you get Nana, and then you f-throw and it hits them both.

 

[FIERCE]

What I find helpful in the Ice Climber matchup is the backwards through after a downsmash. That way you've separated them and can choose to go after Nana. (: