infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Doesn't matter what LzR says, he's from Finland. I don't even know where Finland is so there's no point in taking his opinions into consideration
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJLmgnFpJg8Why is Marth vs Pikachu even?
THIS!Doesn't matter what LzR says, he's from Finland. I don't even know where Finland is so there's no point in taking his opinions into consideration
At the same time, I do believe their was an extremely strong bias from that panel.Im skipping over posts that are clearly bias while also not acknowledging or understanding their lack of knowledge on certain subjects.
If you have an honest concern dont attempt to present it from a high horse because theres a very strong chance the people who determined the MU have a lot more knowledge and experience.
Yes; he has a lot of it, in fact, with a great player.WTF at Diddy gimping ZSS better than she gimps him. Does P-1 even have experience in this MU?
Mario doesn't lose to Diddy that badly. He has the tools to fight Diddy and force approaches. His cape is really good when you know what you are doing and he is pretty good at gimping Diddy. Flip kick does destroy most of Mario's options though, but I still think this match up is -1.
-4:
-3:
-2:
These are what I believe to be Mario's real bad match-ups. Only characters Mario has an avantage against for sure are Falcon and Yoshi. Ganon, Zelda, Link and Puff are somewhere between 0 and +1 for Mario.
Ganon doesn't lose vs Mario, Luigi and Falcon imho.
I said that dsmash sets up into all of those moves that were listed and that said moves are unsafe on shield, not that dsmash is unsafe on shield.LOL P-1 SAID ZSS DSMASH IS NOT SAFE ON SHIELD. PAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH/ Thread
Exactly, just because the match up chart is like this with MK around, doesn't mean it's going to be like this with MK gone. From what I've seen in the past, it looks like his match ups are only going to get worse unless they remove the LGL.We don't and they might.
In terms of this chart's indication however, he's high tier. Or at least that's what Maha is saying.
Well, 4God beat TheOneJanitor's Pit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4QQB8Vw0-_0i have no real discrepancies but i would like the pit ddd write up if that could come soon and the pit pika write up. im probably one of the only pits who IS suprised DDD has gone from getting countered (b4 the MU chart) to getting gayed (MU chart 1) to going even. im also one of the few who will not be suprised that pika is a -1 but still those are my only curiosities. glad snake was correctly labled as even.
I knew that was the reason!Here is the Pikachu vs Metaknight write-up
[collapse=Pikachu vs MK]Seeing as Pikachu is now the only character with an even match-up against Metaknight, we felt like we should explain this. There will be 2 parts to this explanation: the Match-up itself and then comparing to other contenders for the 0 with MK.
Pikachu vs MK is basically all RPS situations. MK has the slight edge on spacing and safety, but Pikachu gets much more per-hit because of follow-ups. Pikachu's projectile also helps because it makes MK initiate. Couple this with the fact that Pikachu is an amazing punisher and you get a pretty good situation for Pikachu. MK's safety is his main attribute in this MU, and it is mostly for pokes more than camping. Pikachu's uair is a really good move to combat dair camping, and planking is rendered semi-useless with T-jolts. MK's safety translates to his kill game. D-smash is pretty safe and at max range it is near impossible to punish without a power shield. However, it won't kill consistently until the 130% range while Pikachu's more punishable kill moves will take a stock closer to 105-110% (F-smash or u-tilt/u-smash thunder).
Now, there are 2-3 candidates that could be even with MK, and those are Diddy, Falco, and Fox. A huge factor that Pikachu has above all of those is the fact that Pikachu doesn't get gimped. All of the other 3 are in REALLY bad situations if they are ever off-stage, while Pikachu is pretty safe. Diddy has better ground control than all, and fox/falco can camp better than diddy/pikachu. Pikachu has all of those abilities, but is outshined. The gimping is a huge factor because there is honestly more of a chance of Pikachu getting a fluke kill due to MK having bad DI than getting gimped. Pikachu also doesn't suffer from stages like those 3 since he can definitely handle RC, Delfino, and Frigate (Although Pikachu will always ban Brinstar). [/collapse]
Just to circumvent Marc having to realize it and edit it on here.
Really? Even with the infinite? I think the match up is pretty easy but none of the players I play know the infinite.ZSS/Diddy is -2, but almost everything P-1 said is wrong so lol
Both sides came to the same consensus by themselves that olimar has the advantage.Can someone explain how the Olimar verdict was found? The last time in like six months any ZSS player that matters even played an Olimar was 1-stock at Concentrate 2 and even then Olimar lost, that MU was always +1 or 0. What changed here?
LOL at Marth's ridiculous match-up spread
I don't see it that way. By that logic, Olimar would get destroyed by MK. Most characters balance themselves out by having a better ground game than MK.The pikachu v. MK write up makes perfect sense to me. Recovering is honestly the only reasons why I think characters like Falco,Fox, Diddy, Snake, heck even Marth should be stated as losing the MK MU ( Although I do feel Snake should be even thats just me though.)
ZSS/Diddy is -2, but almost everything P-1 said is wrong so lol
yup, obviously ZSS's item control is way better than Diddy's. Diddy doesn't have an amazing dash attack, fast aerials for catching bananas, fast item throws, the best glidetoss for item control or anythingDiddy has way better item control than Zero Suit Samus does, and can easily get control of them
yeah, her juggling game isn't good against Diddy at all, I forgot how it's super difficult for a character with a fast uair that easily frame traps and a dsmash that wrecks the **** out of air dodges to juggle a character with one of the worst air speeds in the gamethe fact that she is really good at juggling Diddy, and Diddy's poor drift speed doesn't help either.
yup, ZSS doesn't have an infinite on Diddy at all and it's super difficult to setup, I forgot that ZSS's glidetoss is complete **** and can't set up at all with itZSS does have some tricks she can use with bananas if she does get control of them that can lead into some nasty combos. Also, Zero Suit Samus has an infinite on Diddy if no platforms get in our way. It's probably one of the easiest infinites to set up in the game too, BUT it's still difficult to set up if the Diddy is watching out for it. ZSS can do a footstool variation infinite that she can easily get with a dsmash. Unfortunately for her though, she can't do a dsmash while holding a banana, so in order for her to land the infinite, she has to have a banana near her while she gets the dsmash. Probably the most common setup for this is a glidetoss to dsmash since the banana will land right near her to get it. She has a long glidetoss so if she is faraway with a banana in your hand then be prepared for it.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=307620Alternately, ZSS is also in the group of characters that has the easiest infinite timing for Diddy in the game and since her moves are very unsafe on shield when Diddy has a banana in his hand then it easily lead into an infinite if they're not careful as well.
yeah, Diddy doesn't have one of the best shields in the game or anything, obviously sitting in his shield is unsafe when she tries to get kills especially because her grab and throws are so good at killing.I feel that ZSS has a very hard time killing Diddy if Diddy just sits in his shield. Her kill moves are pretty much just bair, uair, side-b, and dsmash sets up into all of those, which are all very unsafe on shield if Diddy has a banana in his hand.
Neither character can do much to each other while recovering to gimp one another, but I'd have to give the slight edge to Diddy.Diddy can gimp ZSS a bit better than she can gimp Diddy, but both characters can get back to the stage fairly well against each other. Diddy can mess with her while she tries to tether recover with items and the such, but if she's careful then it won't matter too much. Her down-b can footstool items too to help recover. Against Diddy, she can dsmash us out of a poorly spaced side-b to the edge as well as drop of the edge and up-b back to get her invincibility frames back fast.
Would love to hear what stages you think are the best to CP/Ban for Diddy in this MU. I mean if FD/SV/BF aren't good stages to CP with Diddy (a character with one of the best ground games and stage control in the game) then IDK what would be.I like to ban Brinstar as Diddy in this MU. If they know the infinite and you don't want to take any chances then FD wouldn't be bad to ban either. I'll counterpick FD (if they don't know the infinite), SV, or BF against Zero Suit Samus.
If you and me played, you'd probably say it's even. The MU's a +1/-1, I main both at a high level (kirby better though), I see it from both sides of the MU. Why do you think you're right?ZSS/Snake is even
ZSS/Wario is even. Why does anyone think this is -1? lol
ZSS/Kirby is +2. Sorry, Kewkky, you're wrong.
ZSS/Diddy is -2, but almost everything P-1 said is wrong so lol
Can someone explain how the Olimar verdict was found? The last time in like six months any ZSS player that matters even played an Olimar was 1-stock at Concentrate 2 and even then Olimar lost, that MU was always +1 or 0. What changed here?
LOL at Marth's ridiculous match-up spread