Official SWF Matchup Chart v2.0

[SaveMeJebus]

Yoshi DOES NOT have a -2 vs Diddy. This matchup is honestly even at the very worst for Yoshi, otherwise he does very well vs Diddy. He also beats/goes even with A LOT more characters. DK's mus are severly underrated as well. Will elaborate more tomorrow.

What the hell is Yoshi supposed to do if Diddy glide tosses to D-tilt or jab?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

lol at Yoshi being even with Diddy.

 

[Alacion]

Just noticed that Sheilda has her own mini icon. Why isn't she an option as a Brawl main icon below our avatar?

 

[Shaya]

My only john is Marth vs Oli is even.

Nope, NEVER.

 

[Kinzer]

Question:

In the matchup chart: Link vs Falcon is even.

In the individual character spreads: Its +1 Link's favor

The chart says vs. is -2, but the individual spread says -3

Should be -4 imo, but I'll take the -3

The chart says -1 on kirby/pika yet on the individual character spreads, it's 0?

Which is which, lol? I'm starting to believe that there are a lot of mistakes here.

There are a couple errors that people have noticed, we'll work on fixing these asap.

I have to wonder if it was a mistake or if these were left in here intentionally to show how individual character "debators," as I'll say, had certain views in the end but the final product had to come to a consensus.

You have to admit afterall that some people would be adamant about this sort of thing.

 

[Snow Shard]

FINALY, Kirby has a -2 MU against MK! I mained Kirby for years and when my friend started using MK he'd say the MU isnt so bad for Kirby, but I ALWAYS knew it was. Yes Kirby isn't as plankable as most characters, but kirby's recovery is so predictable, and his jumps are pretty slow. Moch Tornado is a great recovery but its SO hard to inhale lmao. I think Kewkky explained this MU well, so thank you, Im tired of hearing people say Kirby is one of MK's hardest MUs lol.

Also, can someone explain to me why the GaW Oli MU has changed to -1 instead of -2... cuz I really suck at that MU, n now its better for GaW???? GaW cant bucket Oli's camp game, and GaW can't really force an approach. The EARLY kills and ledge guarding r nice, but i dont think they ourweight a camping oli, and those retreating grabs ....... Maybe I just suck at the MU lol, but if someone can explain it to me, id be happy.

Lastly, Id argue bout the GaW Snake MU only being -1, but if i can somehow manage to juggle a Snake, its VERRRRY fun, so i won't argue lmao All in all, great chart, thanks for the update.

PS: Ive faced V115's ZSS with GaW, lemme tell u, its not pleasing. That GR... I also thought Id bucket some of ZSS stuff, but shes to fast, makes it so punshiable. She also moves fast in the air, so I can't get to much air pressure. Still GaW can get some EARLY kills on her, and isnt bad for gimping IMO... I'd say its even, but W/E -1 isnt THAT bad.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I have to wonder if it was a mistake or if these were left in here intentionally to show how individual character "debators," as I'll say, had certain views in the end but the final product had to come to a consensus.

You have to admit afterall that some people would be adamant about this sort of thing.

There was no such thing.

Some might have been from V1, others might have been typos, etc.

They weren't intentional.

 

[Okuser]

Me and my friend Gunner always play MK vs Pikachu and have always agreed the matchup is super even

 

[Nike.]

Sweet, it's finally released.

 

[Kewkky]

I hope the Kirby vs Snake write-up doesn't discourage readers. I'm always writing walls of text even if I don't mean to, there's just so much I wanna write I can't find where to stop. I've only done 5 of kirby's write-ups though, and am willing to do the rest once i get back to USA from my vacation and get my laptop fixed (currently using my sister's).

 

[Vinylic.]

The write-ups are fine. Plenty of tips and info for kirbies.
ChuDat can approve as well if he was here, bro.

 

[Kewkky]

Huzzah! *high fives Vinyl and fellow kirby mainers*

I think our MU spread is pretty decent, too. I love debating.

 

[MVD]

Still disagree with a few of snakes but looks better

 

[zmx]

The biggest change (MK being even with Pikachu) unfortunately was discussed to death in the previous topic. Shouldn't have given that away so early.

Edit:

Don't get why Snake is +1 against ZSS now. IIRC it was -1 before. Last I checked MVD still loses to NickRiddle and I can't think of any other place where this MU comes up often at high levels.

 

[Mota]

Looks weird, IC should wreck haha.

Go Pika! Even with MK <3

 

[MVD]

Snake ZSS is even

 

[MVD]

So is snake ike, Took link, diddy

 

[TKD]

i love the look

 

[MVD]

And what's funny is how snakes minus ones are not all minus one, MK and pika are -2 since they are significantly worse than the other -1s, and I think snake loses to falco

 

[Vinylic.]

Snake ZSS is even

[collapse=etc].

So is snake ike, Took link, diddy

And what's funny is how snakes minus ones are not all minus one, MK and pika are -2 since they are significantly worse than the other -1s, and I think snake loses to falco

[/collapse]

Where's the proof in that?

 

[TKD]

snake doesn't lose to falco imo...ddd and mk are -2 easily though. olimar is -1 probably. no one else is bad for snake i think

 

[MVD]

San used to take games off ally, and ryo beat me, tl should always go to time cause we cant catch him, ZSS, I play riddle and we both agree on that, I also think wario beats snake

 

[Roller]

is definitely easier for than is.

 

[TKD]

edited post off

 

[Vinylic.]

San used to take games off ally, and ryo beat me, tl should always go to time cause we cant catch him, ZSS, I play riddle and we both agree on that, I also think wario beats snake

You do know that the movesets are more important than wins and losses, right?

 

[Stealth Raptor]

i think this is a far better chart then the old one, and was made using far better methods and far more diverse people then the first one. problem is with all of these are people have their own opinions and you can never please everyone. and really everyone is different in how they play and view each matchup so obviously there will be discrepancies. i disagree with a lot of matchups myself but i am willing to accept i dont know everything and to agree to the consensus found by a group of people. all im gonna say to all the disagreers and haters of the matchup chart, its probably more right then you are

 

[MVD]

You do know that the movesets are more important than wins and losses, right?

Movesets? Like snakes up tilt? LOL

 

[Vinylic.]

Yeah, that. And more specific things.

 

[MVD]

So you mean to tell me.that MATCH UP chart is based off not MATCH UPS but my moves....

 

[Kewkky]

People always look at MUs from their character's side of the argument. They never stop to think "maybe the other character's community think the MU ratio's different" and they immediately assume that they're right and the others are wrong, because "I main my character and you don't, even if you main the character I'm arguing against". Seriously.

Those are the types of people that we would like to leave out of discussions.

 

[Strong Badam]

I like this. Good work to all of the people who worked on it =)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

People always look at MUs from their character's side of the argument. They never stop to think "maybe the other character's community think the MU ratio's different" and they immediately assume that they're right and the others are wrong, because "I main my character and you don't, even if you main the character I'm arguing against". Seriously.

Those are the types of people that we would like to leave out of discussions.

That happened a lot more than I thought it did.

A lot of ratios were debated because people didn't agree on the number, though they were on point with the info provided.

Funny huh?

 

[Matador]

Guys guys guys...Mario vs MK is really ****in bad...

Results and theorycrafting both point to it being worse than -2. I also thought there was a consensus with it being -3. What's going on??

 

[Vinylic.]

Guys guys guys...Mario vs MK is really ****in bad...

Results and theorycrafting both point to it being worse than -2. I also thought there was a consensus with it being -3. What's going on??

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13864634&postcount=119

There's the problem.

---

I feel like there wasn't a strong discussion yet so I'm pretty much waiting for player-1 or others.
I'd to see what they think at this moment.

 

[MVD]

When you have certain MUs that only very few ppl play, what other basis do you go by? I'm talking about me and my.pika and zss experience that other snakes don't have

 

[da K.I.D.]

chart is still hilariously off
but i love the look

snake doesn't lose to falco imo...ddd and mk are -2 easily though. olimar is -1 probably. no one else is bad for snake i think

/\ they use a voting system for each match-up so the chart's never congruent lol

"The people that think they know everything really annoy those of us who do"
-anon

 

[Vinylic.]

When you have certain MUs that only very few ppl play, what other basis do you go by? I'm talking about me and my.pika and zss experience that other snakes don't have

Pika:
(p)http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185549
(S) http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=264731

ZSS:
(zss)http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5748202&postcount=2
(S) http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=282574

 

[Kewkky]

"The people that think they know everything really annoy those of us who do"
-anon

I'm 100% serious when I say this, I am wearing a shirt that says that this very moment.

Also, I main ZSS and I used to play against high-level Snakes in PR all the time before I moved to USA. Here, I've only played against one or two non-high-level player snakes so I can't really say much.

Well, gonna go to sleep and do stuff then see how this thread is like tomorrow, and when the next write-ups are up (if they're up that quick).

 

[Shaya]

TKD!

Our methods of doing the match up chart have changed quite a bit. It isn't "everyone in the bbr voting", like we once tried (but it never went through to anything, by the way).
V0 flopped. It started off with this 'vote this match up as even advantage disadvantage' and after all that it went further. Nevertheless, it didn't work out.
V1 used BBR members forming groups/panels representing individual characters and came to their own consensus on match ups before presenting to the opposing party if there was disagreement.
V2 went further and had a large chunk of out-of-BBR players (as well as BBR members) participating in panels for their respective characters.

 

[MVD]

Pika:
(p)http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185549
(S) http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=264731

ZSS:
(zss)http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5748202&postcount=2
(S) http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=282574

Those are all REALLY old lol I kinda am up to date in pika and ZSS