Official SWF Matchup Chart v2.0

[infiniteV115]

For ZSS vs. us I don't see why we lose... That's about it really. I think it's probably one of our most even matchups. Can she do anything about Nair? does her Uair beat our dair? How safe is she offstage? (our strongest area)

uair beats dair and she's very safe offstage. And also grab release-->uair

Not that I think it's +1 for ZSS but those could be some arguments for it.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Why is Pika on par with DDD for Wolf's worst MU? It's definitely manageable.

Why do we lose to Diddy?

You lose to Diddy because you can't safely land against him and are easily juggled. I feel the MU is between 0 and -1

 

[Seagull Joe]

Why is Pika on par with DDD for Wolf's worst MU? It's definitely manageable.

Why do we lose to Diddy?

Because we lost the vs matchup discussion...I'm still extremely salty how that ended up because it was honestly the dumbest way to decide the matchup....

Kain, Ish, and Gheb thought we lost to -1, but me and Lumi thought it was even. 3 to 2 so no discussion happened. Same for .

You lose to Diddy because you can't safely land against him and are easily juggled. I feel the MU is between 0 and -1

We juggle you better then you juggle us. Are you seriously saying that?

We land fine against him. He doesn't have Nado to cover out tracks. He has nanerz, which we can always Z-catch, shine, or just go to the edge to avoid landing near in general. INB4RETARDEDANSWERBYYOU.

 

[BSP]

I support that * system because there's no way Mario and Luigi go through the same amount of **** when dealing with MK

 

[SinisterB]

Because we lost the vs matchup discussion...I'm still extremely salty how that ended up because it was honestly the dumbest way to decide the matchup....

Kain, Ish, and Gheb thought we lost to -1, but me and Lumi thought it was even. 3 to 2 so no discussion happened. Same for .

Dumb.

That's just how it rolls I guess, I mean MU charts don't affect the way I play.

But yeah I consider Diddy even, mostly because of our amazing banana control and all-around mobility.


edit - LOOOOL JEBUS. You're funny dawg.

 

[Kinzer]

Isn't there usually a compiled list of people who worked on the project?

Although from reading earlier posts, maybe I ought to give it a few days...

 

[SFA Smiley]

uair beats dair and she's very safe offstage. And also grab release-->uair

Not that I think it's +1 for ZSS but those could be some arguments for it.

I didn't know that she had a grab release on us. But I don't think ZSS should be trying to grab us anyway. She takes some serious punishment from a whiffed (or ducked under) grab

 

[Doc King]

Is there gonna be matchup write ups for every single matchup or no? Any more matchup writeups coming up or no?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

We land fine against him. He doesn't have Nado to cover out tracks. He has nanerz, which we can always Z-catch, shine, or just go to the edge to avoid landing near in general. INB4RETARDEDANSWERBYYOU.

Are you kidding me? Wolf isn't one of the best characters at juggling (in fact, he sucks at it) and the only thing he has protecting him from below is his shine which is horrible because it cuts down his aerial mobility when he uses it which makes his landings predictable.

Also, Nado shouldn't really be a problem against a juggling MK. Just Shine it

 

[Mr. Johan]

Is there gonna be matchup write ups for every single matchup or no? Any more matchup writeups coming up or no?

There's over 700 MUs to write about. That's a lot of stuff.

I would suspect the hotly-debated MUs to be presented within a few days, with any others being trickled out over time. But for the very obscure MUs, I don't see them coming out and being elaborated. I can't imagine stuff like Jigglypuff vs. Mario being written out for the public when Wario vs. *insert character* would be more worthwhile.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

ZSS's grab is amusing.

Sometimes it just goes past me as I'm standing there.

Are you kidding me? Wolf isn't one of the best characters at juggling (in fact, he sucks at it)

I'm a new Wolf user, and I can tell you that you are wrong.

 

[Cassius.]

coolio

10 coolios

 

[Doc King]

There's over 700 MUs to write about. That's a lot of stuff.

I would suspect the hotly-debated MUs to be presented within a few days, with any others being trickled out over time.

Like !

 

[Yink]

Whoa, re-looking...DK really made a drop. Yikes.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I thought DK had a slight advantage against Marth

 

[Jimmyfosho]

eh marios MUs still look dumb, owell as expected

 

[SinisterB]

It's even, if anything slight Marth favor.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Are you kidding me? Wolf isn't one of the best characters at juggling (in fact, he sucks at it) and the only thing he has protecting him from below is his shine which is horrible because it cuts down his aerial mobility when he uses it which makes his landings predictable.

Also, Nado shouldn't really be a problem against a juggling MK. Just Shine it

His Uair usually combos into itself. Fair and Uair keeps many characters above him very well. I'd say he is one of the best jugglers. Not as good as or , but about as good or better then .

Why does he have to land with shine? Why doesn't he have the option to AD or Nair/Bair/Dair? Bair covers his entire body.

 

[SinisterB]

Not to mention B-Reverse blaster and Half-Cancel Wolf flash are great momentum based attacks to get you out of tough places.

 

[Yink]

I thought DK had a slight advantage against Marth

Honestly, I thought he did. Guess it's just an annoying 0 for Marth.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

When I hit people in front of me with bair when using Wolf, I laugh irl.

Reeeeeaaaally loudly.

 

[Doc King]

Whoa, re-looking...DK really made a drop. Yikes.

Because he's the only mid tier with a -4 matchup, which is . also has a very bad matchup (-3) against and . He also has a bunch of -2s and got moved to +3 for .

 

[zeldasmash]

I expected Link to have better matchups. Oh well.

 

[infiniteV115]

I didn't know that she had a grab release on us. But I don't think ZSS should be trying to grab us anyway. She takes some serious punishment from a whiffed (or ducked under) grab

I know it's a bad grab. But that's what dsmash and neutralB are for.
And I meant air release, btw.

 

[Chuee]

and got moved to +3 for .

implying that moving it down from ****ty to **** makes a difference

 

[SinisterB]

I expected Link to have better matchups. Oh well.

I think Falcon should have some better MUs but then I remember low tiers don't matter.

 

[Doc King]

I expected Link to have better matchups. Oh well.

He did get a winning Falcon matchup along with an even Puff matchup.

implying that moving it down from ****ty to **** makes a difference

It actually does.

Not a big one, but a difference indeed.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

His Uair usually combos into itself. Fair and Uair keeps many characters above him very well. I'd say he is one of the best jugglers. Not as good as or , but about as good or better then .

Why does he have to land with shine? Why doesn't he have the option to AD or Nair/Bair/Dair? Bair covers his entire body.

Nobody should be getting comboed by U-air. It's not even legit. His F-air is pretty good, but it's horrible for juggling because it's laggy as hell (lots of ending lag). He is not the worst juggler, but he is definitely no where near the top.

When he is getting juggled, his aerial options are horrible since most of them have really horrible hit boxes under them and D-air is laggy. In my opinion, his best option would be to wave bounce a laser.

 

[Doc King]

Nobody should be getting comboed by U-air. It's not even legit. His F-air is pretty good, but it's horrible for juggling because it's laggy as hell (lots of ending lag). He is not the worst juggler, but he is definitely no where near the top.

When he is getting juggled, his aerial options are horrible since most of them have really horrible hit boxes under them and D-air is laggy. In my opinion, his best option would be to wave bounce a laser.

You forgot to mention how you can auto cancel it.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

You forgot to mention how you can auto cancel it.

No I didn't. If you go for a full hop Fair, you are not going to get another chance at attacking until you touch the ground

 

[Doc King]

No I did not. If you go for a full hop Fair, you are not going to get another chance at attacking until you touch the ground

A will most likely wanna do shorthop fairs than a full hop when juggling.

 

[Chuee]

It actually does.

Not a big one, but a difference indeed.

1. nobody's MU with Lucas really matters towards their tier position
2. either way DK shouldn't lose that MU ever really, labeling it as -3 or -4 doesn't change the fact that DK wins by a lot

 

[z00ted]

The Peach MU chart is wrong... I can name three matchups that we agreed upon on both sides but it's not shown here.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

A will most likely wanna do shorthop fairs than a full hop when juggling.

Characters that are good at juggling should not be limited to short hops.

 

[Seagull Joe]

No I did not. If you go for a full hop Fair, you are not going to get another chance at attacking until you touch the ground

You forgot to mention how you can auto cancel it.

What he said that I quoted about you is actually factual. Fair has a lot of end lag associated with it. You can auto cancel it, but it won't end in a Fh till you actually touch the ground.

Nobody should be getting comboed by U-air. It's not even legit. His F-air is pretty good, but it's horrible for juggling because it's laggy as hell (lots of ending lag). He is not the worst juggler, but he is definitely no where near the top.

When he is getting juggled, his aerial options are horrible since most of them have really horrible hit boxes under them and D-air is laggy. In my opinion, his best option would be to wave bounce a laser.

People get Combo'd by double Uairs all the time. It's really not that hard. Hell, if you go into training mode you can true combo with Usmash>Uair>Uair. It combos into itself.

If you Fh jump and uair at the same time then you have the option of doing a second one upon landing (Or Bair or jump again). This is how juggling tends to occur unless you true combo a Fh Bair>falling Uair in which juggling with Uairs/Fairs tends to occur as well.

 

[wWw Dazwa]

does her Uair beat our dair?

For the record, it does, but it's not nearly as clean as other ZSSuair vs (Insert Move Here) matchups usually turn out.

If you're beating her Uair with GaW's Dair, odds are the ZSS you're playing against is too adjusted to Uair's easy-mode spacing, and doesn't realize they need to work in order to beat your Dair. Uair has a needlessly huge hitbox, and typically beats a whole ton of **** regardless of the timing used, but has to be properly timed to beat Dair.

Trading with dair, on the otherhand, is very easy, but not worthwhile.

 

[Doc King]

1. nobody's MU with Lucas really matters towards their tier position
2. either way DK shouldn't lose that MU ever really, labeling it as -3 or -4 doesn't change the fact that DK wins by a lot

1. I just said it wasn't a big change, but it's a change that matters (Probably very slightly matters but still it matters).

2. I'm just showing the matchup changes DK has from V1 to V2.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

People get Combo'd by double Uairs all the time. It's really not that hard. Hell, if you go into training mode you can true combo with Usmash>Uair>Uair. It combos into itself.

If you Fh jump and uair at the same time then you have the option of doing a second one upon landing (Or Bair or jump again). This is how juggling tends to occur unless you true combo a Fh Bair>falling Uair in which juggling with Uairs/Fairs tends to occur as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHQwUxGCcmQ this is supposed to be a true combo but any human player can easily air dodge it. You shouldn't really trust training mode.

 

[z00ted]

Wow, do not like this list across the board at all... LMAO

 

[Cassius.]

Illm you probably should post the matchups if they're actually wrong so he can fix them