theunabletable
Smash Lord
I'll agree with that.
Just saying that writing off all of MLG Orlando because of random seeding is ridiculous.
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Official Metaknight Discussion
- Thread starter Hylian
- Start date
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Just saying that writing off all of MLG Orlando because of random seeding is ridiculous.
solecalibur
Smash Master
Its a 60/40 MU that just means they have the 61+ to win, the MU only consist of dont lose the lead and out smart your opponent like +++++++
Just proves your legitimacy of all your posts, Falco does NOT win vs ICs as lain as proves as lain won at pound 4 as it is still a 70/30 MU
edit - In the matches of Lain vs Notra (see game 2 at http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=268832 )
It was believed falco was able to defeat lain but this is defiantly not the case as you can see towards the end of game 2 when he started realizing the very obvious pattern
Your killing me the top players are not only what matters and did you notice how you will never see 2 of them same character other then metaknight?
Fox in melee is just as dominant as metaknight in the melee scene but does not claim as many victories in tounrys as melee fox , I'd also like to mention Melee fox HAS bad MUs and if you see the melee tier list Fox and Marth are almost tied(http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199342 )
I also find your sarcasm ridiculous, its just like posted a results chart of TV sales in a 3rd world country and saying, huh I guess no one likes TVs anymore,
this character has the best defensive and offensive game as he has the ability to make himself invincible for any set amount of time expect 1 - 3 frames and the idea of going off stage to hit him during those 1 - 3 frames is such a terrible idea, How this character can be joked about in so many tounrys/blogs on how "Well I'll just pick up metaknight for matchup X" how metaknight is continuing to grow and grow in the % of players that play him to "cover up there bad match up" or to "stop losing"
That's even better evidence that Melee is a poor basis for saying that MK is acceptable.
theunabletable
Smash Lord
I was joking mostly...
It is notable, though, that lots of top MKs were beaten. That's the only point I was trying to l make, which I reiterated in my later posts.
That tier list is so outdated...
So you agree that his planking makes the game essentially unplayable? Then it's already illegal using the SBR definition, and an LGL is a fine way to stop it.
Can you talk in legible English, please?
I mean I'm fine if your grammar is bad, but seriously I can't tell what point you're trying to make with that last part.
solecalibur
Smash Master
It does not make the game unplayable as you are able to knock him off his planking but your are going in with a death wish, and have you counted how many minutes can be stalled off grabbing the ledge 25 - 35 times while scourging under the stage?
Well that proves a point that melee was balanced as certain characters had bad match ups and that
AvaricePanda
Smash Lord
theunabletable
Smash Lord
I haven't seen data that shows scrooging to be humanly unbeatable, so the ability to scrooge seems rather irrelevant. And with an LGL and scrooging he doesn't seem to be bannable (imo).
solecalibur
Smash Master
Completely out of context it was more balanced then brawl is
scrooging unbeatable? Its not but tell me which characters can be able to hit metaknight under the stage with out risking their stock?
theunabletable
Smash Lord
Idk much about scrooging and what can beat it, honestly.
And what does it matter if he can scrooge with an LGL? The LGL isn't there to stop scrooging, it's to stop the DMG style of planking. His ability to do a completely different strategy is irrelevant.
And what does it matter if he can scrooge with an LGL? The LGL isn't there to stop scrooging, it's to stop the DMG style of planking. His ability to do a completely different strategy is irrelevant.
One set doesn't prove a MU ratio lol. Oh, and all Falcos dont use that much phantasm.
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
I'd be all for MLG's stagelist if it did balance out MK, but on paper MK should..... dominate with these stages.
It's actually pretty well balanced in the sense that there are many failsafes that limit/boost all characters universally, such that in a given situation, there are certain options that all characters have access to, which are moderately effectual options. True, there are many ways in which it could be improved upon. I know this all too well. But that doesn't detract from the brief glimpses of genius.
No the stage list didn't make things more balanced lol. What I am guessing happened, is that people didn't play gay LIKE usual, and that stages like Green Greens were severely under played. Honestly though, I will be very disappointed if I hear that people who used MK were counterpicking their opponents to stages like Frigate or Neutrals instead of RC/Brinstar/Green Greens/Norfair/something gay. I WANT SOME TIME OUTS FLARBLE GARBLE GARBLE AKLDASJDKASDL
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
*bursts out laughing*
You're right about marth, but anyone who tells you fox isn't the top character... please ask them what they're on cause I want some of dat sh**.
Seriously... fox is by far the most consistently placing character in the metagame at the moment and has always been the best from a technical prospective.
The other character that you're suggesting happens to have the highest concentration of ranking points to individual players of any character, and is ranked nowhere near first in terms of tournament results, and by a very significant margin.
Jiggs is good, and I've always thought she deserved the top tier nod, but better then fox, no way.
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
Not gonna say anti-ban is stupid because of this. Definitely Tommy G on this one.
Let's hear that again.They did....
Please do. It's a very useful post, plus apparently things have changed with MLG?
Yeah, I'm almost feeling like this is a sign that my most clear thought on why MK HAS to be banned (him hard countering you makes you automatically inviable)... jeez. Let's see if this trend holds, eh?
I hear DK does all right against DDD if DDD doesn't use grabs.
bigbucks
Smash Journeyman
DDD vs Dk is horrible even without the infinite.
it was warios doing a majority of the time outs.
rPSIvysaur
[ɑɹsaɪ]
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2009
- Messages
- 16,415
Moar timer outs. FLARBLE GARBLE
SGF rocker
Smash Apprentice
MK is here to stay. With other characters placing top 8 besides just MKs he isn't going anywhere.
Florida was at this tournement. We don't lose to pick up and play MK... just saying.
GofG
Smash Champion
Anything MLG does is completely nullified by the inclusion of Castle Siege in the NEUTRAL STAGE POOL.
Jack Kieser
Smash Champion
That sounds like DSF didn't know what he was doing, though. If MK really wanted to control the center platform from Pikachu, would it be that hard to do so? Especially a skilled MK like DSF.
No TO's ban grabs.I hear DK does all right against DDD if DDD doesn't use grabs.
when i said marth and fox aren't the top to i meant it in that marth is no longer up there, you wasted your time there bud of course i know fox is still at the top
Crow!
Smash Lord
I'm kind of confused. Why is everyone acting like MK epically failed at this tournament? He kicked slightly more butt than was predicted! Not less.
Continuing the "Large Tourney Month" line, I had said at some point that MLG should be considering MK to be slightly above 40% dominance in January. April would be around 45%. Our MLG results, using Ankoku's method as per usual?
MK: 52%
Snake: 24%
Pika: 14%
Diddy, Falco, Luigi: 4%
Money-wise, MK took 57% of the singles prizes.
It could even out to close to the predicted 45% once the month's other tournaments are averaged in, but MLG is certainly going to get itself some heavy weighting.
Continuing the "Large Tourney Month" line, I had said at some point that MLG should be considering MK to be slightly above 40% dominance in January. April would be around 45%. Our MLG results, using Ankoku's method as per usual?
MK: 52%
Snake: 24%
Pika: 14%
Diddy, Falco, Luigi: 4%
Money-wise, MK took 57% of the singles prizes.
It could even out to close to the predicted 45% once the month's other tournaments are averaged in, but MLG is certainly going to get itself some heavy weighting.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
^Crow post. 
Also, I'd like to point something out here.
Since the stagelist heavily favored him TO BEGIN WITH, It's quite possible that most of the Mk's had no reason to play gay, and were able to just flat out beat their opponents.
I'm willing to bet that if m2k had faced a serious threat of losing to Ally, he'd have picked gay stages, and played as gay as possible.
You can't write this off as mediocre (even though it isn't, see Crow's post), just because we had a Pika and a Luigi in the top 8. Random seeding, and the fact that MK's PROBABLY didn't ***** the list as bad as they could have, means we still need more data.
Also, I'd like to point something out here.
Since the stagelist heavily favored him TO BEGIN WITH, It's quite possible that most of the Mk's had no reason to play gay, and were able to just flat out beat their opponents.
I'm willing to bet that if m2k had faced a serious threat of losing to Ally, he'd have picked gay stages, and played as gay as possible.
You can't write this off as mediocre (even though it isn't, see Crow's post), just because we had a Pika and a Luigi in the top 8. Random seeding, and the fact that MK's PROBABLY didn't ***** the list as bad as they could have, means we still need more data.
Are you joking? That is ridiculous. MK did significantly worse than people predicted. period. Concidering he was the most played character at MLG it makes sence to expect to see multiple MKs, but he didn't dominate anything. M2K won, tryant got 3rd. after that there are what... 5 MKs in the TOP 16 with characters like luigi pika kirby ZSS etc. beating top MKs to reach top 16 spots.I'm kind of confused. Why is everyone acting like MK epically failed at this tournament? He kicked slightly more butt than was predicted! Not less.
Continuing the "Large Tourney Month" line, I had said at some point that MLG should be considering MK to be slightly above 40% dominance in January. April would be around 45%. Our MLG results, using Ankoku's method as per usual?
MK: 52%
Snake: 24%
Pika: 14%
Diddy, Falco, Luigi: 4%
Money-wise, MK took 57% of the singles prizes.
It could even out to close to the predicted 45% once the month's other tournaments are averaged in, but MLG is certainly going to get itself some heavy weighting.
Just... stop there isn't some secert hidden within the numbers here MK is definitely beatable if you actually try to beat him. Something my region has been proving since the games come out. (and something my region proved this weekend in Orlando)
3 MK's in the top 8 is pretty much expected for a national if not less than expected, and pika and luigi in the mix is just silly. I wouldn't call it a failure but it's certainly not what pro ban wanted, no one that isn't already massively biased is looking at these results and thinking that MK is a problem.
PottyJokes
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2008
- Messages
- 183
its pretty hilarious that the majority of the time outs were done by lame wario players .
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
woah there's nothing lame about any of those Wario players who took their matches to time.
In this post, we attempt to gather data from a non-seeded tourney!I'm kind of confused. Why is everyone acting like MK epically failed at this tournament? He kicked slightly more butt than was predicted! Not less.
Continuing the "Large Tourney Month" line, I had said at some point that MLG should be considering MK to be slightly above 40% dominance in January. April would be around 45%. Our MLG results, using Ankoku's method as per usual?
MK: 52%
Snake: 24%
Pika: 14%
Diddy, Falco, Luigi: 4%
Money-wise, MK took 57% of the singles prizes.
It could even out to close to the predicted 45% once the month's other tournaments are averaged in, but MLG is certainly going to get itself some heavy weighting.
If X person would have been beaten by Y MK mainer, then no matter when the match happens, X person would have lost against Y MK mainer. Also, if the non-MK mainers duked it out together in the first rounds, that'd leave the MK mainers duking it out against each other, which would mean less MKs later on during the tourney... So whichever situation would've happened, MK would've still kept going.
Just pointing that out.
I like the tournament, though. I heard nothing about excessive camping and pseudo-stalling, which is what I personally think is the thing that should be looked into (and if it can't be looked into and fixed, then well, you know... :F). Still, without the BBR's official ruleset, we can't say this tourney is a perfect representative of what the metagame will be from now on (I'm not writing it off, just saying that MK could've been cheaper if he was allowed, what with the whole more-limited-than-before non-BBR-endorsed LGL and all).
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
The seeding of this tournament was decent guys. Nothing horribad about it other than Mew2King only having 10th seed, and so many fellow state members playing the first round, like all the New York versus New Yorks and Florida versus Florida.
Crow!
Smash Lord
*Opens BBR recommended ruleset*
*Control-F*
*types "seed"*
Huh. No results.
Yeah, seeding is a good thing.. as long as every player gets a fair chance to earn their seeds, anyway. But failing to seed doesn't invalidate a whole tourney. Heck, Chess tournaments are generally run in such a way as to cause the players assumed to be the best to play each other as early as possible.
In any case, I was pointing out that this tournament certainly doesn't demonstrate a surprising failure of MK's dominance. His performance was what one should logically expect given the trends.. and maybe slightly better. You can argue whether this that or the other factor affected the results at MLG Orlando, but you can do that at every tourney.
*Control-F*
*types "seed"*
Huh. No results.
Yeah, seeding is a good thing.. as long as every player gets a fair chance to earn their seeds, anyway. But failing to seed doesn't invalidate a whole tourney. Heck, Chess tournaments are generally run in such a way as to cause the players assumed to be the best to play each other as early as possible.
In any case, I was pointing out that this tournament certainly doesn't demonstrate a surprising failure of MK's dominance. His performance was what one should logically expect given the trends.. and maybe slightly better. You can argue whether this that or the other factor affected the results at MLG Orlando, but you can do that at every tourney.
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