Official Metaknight Discussion

[Mew2King]

Because I guarantee that I trained far harder than any other top player for this tourney and it's just going to be blamed entirely on metaknight by half the people

 

[Kitamerby]

We can't really blame MK for your wins if you still **** people so hard in Melee too without your prized puffball. :V

 

[M@v]

I feel so discredited for my win at MLG so I am very sad. I practiced extremely, extremely hard for it. For the 2 weeks prior to this tournament, I played for like 2-8 hours every day to practice to make sure I was at my best for this, no matches went to time out, and besides Ally, I ***** everybody else. I feel I deserved it because of the huge amount of practice and effort I put into this tourney, more than any other tourney ever before it, but it's just going to be discredited anyway so what's the point. I wish I could just feel happy about my win

What makes you say that O_o. All I've been seeing on the boards is "Good **** M2k!"

Btw, I heard Jason is good at this game. That true?

 

[The Cunning Weasel]

People just being salty. You won $2500 and some extra from doubles. The First Brawl MLG man.

 

[Trela]

Me and Xyro were actually rooting for you the whole time, Mr. King, if that helps any lol.

I made a big smile and kind of jumped out of my seat when I refreshed MLG's Live Bracket and saw your name right in the very middle!

 

[HotWings]

M2K if you was to get more credit for your wins at tournaments maybe you should get an alt... i know you love mk and all but if you feel that way then just get an alt and then maybe will finally realize that your not good because you play mk.. your good because you practice hard.

 

[CO18]

M2k practiced way more than everyone for this, he thoroughly outplayed ally and ***** basically everyone, he playin really amazing and everyone watching his sets could see that. He didnt even camp just ****

 

[Mew2King]

I should't have to do that though. Why can't previous wins count back when I played those characters. I have been serious with strictly only mK for the past 1.5 years. why would I waste all that by going someone else. Why can't my melee rep, early DDD dominance, winning every low tier tourney I entered with ike even though I don't even play him even count for anything. It's so dumb. In this metagame going another character now is pointless I don't have experience or know any situations anymore. It's better to just keep going with mk but if I win it's just an argument to ban him

(btw, adhd told me that he ***** dsf the game he won, barely lost the other, and then Tripped a lot after that and lost by 1 damage at the end of the game as a result on some dumb stage like rainbow or something. Tripping + gay stage + not-having-9-min-timer caused that to happen)

 

[HotWings]

Hey did anyone happen to get the tournament on camera? If so could you post it on youtube because i really want to see ally vs m2k

Thanks


Edit-- Well i see what your saying m2k. Honestly i would say just stick with mk then and just **** everyone else that dont like you. You have plenty of fans out there like me that still root for you at tournaments and dont care if you use mk or not.

Ive been playing ganondorf and jigglypuff the longest and im actually thinking about maining mk now and alting them 2 just because your so **** and i want my mk to be as good as yours one day (that will never happen though )

 

[Jack Kieser]

M2K, no one is going to discredit you because you use MK. No one. Not you... don't you see all the times when we specifically point out that you are just so good that you aren't normal? Now, if it was some random newbie player, maybe that would be the case... but all signs point to the fact that you'd **** with almost any character anyway.

If anyone tries that "discrediting" BS, send them our way; the MK ban thread will rough them up for you.

 

[Mew2King]

ally ditched me for teams at apex2. I'm really sad and don't want to enter now

 

[rPSIvysaur]

ally ditched me for teams at apex2. I'm really sad and don't want to enter now

Someone give this guy a hug

 

[Espy Rose]

Man up and find another teammate.

 

[HotWings]

Oh wow... why did ally ditch you? I figured you 2 was going to go in together... thats weird. But why didnt you go in with someone else and teach ally not to ditch you anymore xD.

Eh i prob wouldnt have went in either if i was expecting to go with someone else and them just ditch me all of a sudden like that.

Well good luck in your next tournament m2k. Kick some *** for us!!

 

[ETWIST51294]

What? Dude, YOU carry teams. You don't need Ally to win teams.

 

[<π]

M2K have you been drinking or something?...

 

[deepseadiva]

I enjoy how M2K's life problems are completly on topic in this thread.

 

[Justblaze647]

So...

MK won a National...

What now, Anti-ban?

 

[<π]

So...

MK won a National...

What now, Anti-ban?

Best argument ever.

 

[Justblaze647]

Best argument ever.

The epitome of irony, considering I wasn't intending that statement to seem 'argumentative'

 

[Raziek]

I enjoy how M2K's life problems are completly on topic in this thread.

Are we the ONLY ones who noticed that m2k just came in and completely derailed valid arguments with an emo speech?

**** this, I give up.

 

[ShadowLink84]

ally ditched me for teams at apex2. I'm really sad and don't want to enter now

*walks away*


Get back on topic.

 

[Orion*]

ally ditched me for teams at apex2. I'm really sad and don't want to enter now

team with me and ill supply the booze

 

[demonictoonlink]

MLG's results showed no real signs of MK dominance. There.

 

[swordgard]

3 MKs in top 5 including 1st place.

Not saying its complete dominance, but there is so dominance right there. Alot of people said "MK doesn't take 1st placing so its fine" now he does but has a slightly lower dominance overall(keep in mind seeding wasn't perfect either).

Question is does this change anything? Will anti-ban change their criteria so that then because its not as dominant even though it takes 1st place so that he is not bannable? Will proban also change their criteria? Does MLG even care?

 

[HotWings]

I honesly dont see why people want to ban MK so bad... he is good and overused but so was fox in melee... why didnt people talk about banning him. Snake is about and even matchup in my opinion against MK so he isnt totally overpowered. Plus i dont consider MK overpowered but i see him as overused... thats all.

 

[GeneralWoodman]

MLG's results showed no real signs of MK dominance. There.

the dominant player used MK

 

[fkacyan]

3 MKs in top 5 including 1st place.

Not saying its complete dominance, but there is so dominance right there. Alot of people said "MK doesn't take 1st placing so its fine" now he does but has a slightly lower dominance overall(keep in mind seeding wasn't perfect either).

Question is does this change anything? Will anti-ban change their criteria so that then because its not as dominant even though it takes 1st place so that he is not bannable? Will proban also change their criteria? Does MLG even care?

I'm wondering how you distinguish one fifth place from the other?

 

[Throwback]

didn't Crow's stats show that MK's dominance was even GREATER than the current trend?

 

[AvaricePanda]

guys there is no top 5, it's top 6

also guys let's completely invalidate the success of certain people because they use MK! no wonder why M2K can't feel as happy as he can.

I know this is a "bad baseless argument!" and I'm "ignoring the statistical data!" but honestly, what did you expect? In national tournaments, top players take the top spots, and we all know that a large number of top players use Meta Knight. M2K, Shadow, DSF, Tyrant, Ksizzle, Havok, Anti, Tearbear, etc, so how come when these people place at a national like they have been and always will because they're effing good players, everyone freaks out about it because "META KNIGHT!!!"

Nationals don't show much we already don't know — top players place. Where they place is the surprise (for most people), not who they use (because we already know that lol). It was a surprise when ESAM ***** and got 4th, and when Biglou beat mikeHAZE TWICE to get 8th. It was a surprise when ADHD only got 6th (still great though!) and it was a surprise to some people when M2K beat Ally. Who was honestly surprised that there were 3 Meta Knights in the top 8 (or top 6)? Why do the character results of this tournaments shock anyone?

 

[Black Marf]

guys there is no top 5, it's top 6

MLG made a top 5. Top 5 is about as arbitrary a line drawn as top 4, top 6, top 8, etc.

also guys let's completely invalidate the success of certain people because they use MK! no wonder why M2K can't feel as happy as he can.

Why are you forcing this situation into a dichotomy? No one's saying that the MKs suck and don't deserve to win or completely invalidating their success(no one intelligent, anyway). It's pretty obvious that M2K is easily one of the smartest players playing right now, and totally deserved to win. People are arguing that MK is, statistically, a ridiculously strong character and thus the players using him probably shouldn't be winning as much as they do. If MK was more balanced, Shadow and DSF would still be winning money and placing well. It's just that they (arguably) wouldn't be placing as well and as consistently.

That's a far cry from invalidating people's success, it's just discussing the statistical advantages given by certain characters.


That said, these results have hilarious consequences for this "debate". Last I checked the thread, a lot of Anti-Bans were sitting on the "but MKs not winning!" argument. Now that an MK took first, the overall results do not actually show character dominance. Looking at the top 16 of MLG Orlando, I would not conclude that MK was a large issue for the community.

 

[Judo777]

I don't even think anyone said that M2K wasn't good or didn't deserve to win i have no idea where that came from.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

MLG's results showed no real signs of MK dominance. There.

MLG isn't finished yet and it could be a case of coincidental seeding like to use 2 extreme examples,

Pound 4 and Genesis.

Polar opposites of how seeding can influence how people see the metagame situation.

Edit: Stick with MK, no matter what the haters say. Don't hate the player people.

 

[theunabletable]

There were only 3 MKs in the top 8, right. I mean, yeah, that's more dominance than any other character, but really that doesn't seem like a bannable character. It's not so dominant that no other characters are viable. Hell 6 different characters in the top 8 is pretty diverse. That's as good, or better, than Melee at Pound 4, isn't it?

3 MKs in top 5 including 1st place.

2 Jigglypuffs in top 2 including 1st place at Pound 4 Melee. Jigglypuff's too dominant, ban her.

Arbitrary numbers can make any point look better!

I mean, yeah, you're right that MK DOES have a level of dominance that no other character has, but if we were to just look at Orlando (not saying we should ONLY look at Orlando, but if we did), it actually looks like a fairly healthy level of diversity and quite a healthy meta game.

 

[DMG]

I don't like the "Top Players Placing" argument because you can take it too far or just use it as a blanket statement for any tournament ever in the existence of man.

Let's assume that MK, or any one single character was the only viable choice in Brawl. Every person played as this character, no one sucked it up and played low tier, etc. The entire tournament was basically dittos.

You could argue that the tournament simply showed very accurately who is better than who, since every matchup is 50:50. It's not dominance, the results are just the best ever fathomable for determining who is truly better than who.

 

[Raziek]

I mean, yeah, you're right that MK DOES have a level of dominance that no other character has, but if we were to just look at Orlando (not saying we should ONLY look at Orlando, but if we did), it actually looks like a fairly healthy level of diversity and quite a healthy meta game.

One could argue then that because we consider Orlando to have been filled with upsets, that this healthy balance is not the norm, correct?

 

[fkacyan]

MLG made a top 5. Top 5 is about as arbitrary a line drawn as top 4, top 6, top 8, etc.

Um, they aren't arbitrary distinctions. You might want to look at how a tourney bracket functions.

 

[Black Marf]

Um, they aren't arbitrary distinctions. You might want to look at how a tourney bracket functions.

lulz

The fact that MLG went out of their way to determine 1st ~ 10th more accurately than the usual model makes top 5 just as arbitrary as top 6. Suggesting that top 6 is more accurate based on the way brackets are usually run through is to cling to the merits of a model that wasn't being used in the first place.

The way MLG set up their bracket made it possible to determine top 5, making that number just as useful as top 6 or top 7. If anything, the person using top 5 to defend their point should be held accountable for selection bias. Top 5 was obviously selected because 5th place held the last MK that forced a high density of MKs that wasn't also a pathetically small number (like 3). Looking at top 16, the game could actually be praised for its diversity.

One could argue then that because we consider Orlando to have been filled with upsets, that this healthy balance is not the norm, correct?

It's still an outlier, and outliers have to be handled directly in order for the model to be taken seriously.

 

[fkacyan]

lulz

The fact that MLG went out of their way to determine 1st ~ 10th more accurately than the usual model makes top 5 just as arbitrary as top 6. Suggesting that top 6 is more accurate based on the way brackets are usually run through is to cling to the merits of a model that wasn't being used in the first place.

The way MLG set up their bracket made it possible to determine top 5, making that number just as useful as top 6 or top 7. If anything, the person using top 5 to defend their point should be held accountable for selection bias. Top 5 was obviously selected because 5th place held the last MK that forced a high density of MKs that wasn't also a pathetically small number (like 3). Looking at top 16, the game could actually be praised for its diversity.
It's still an outlier, and outliers have to be handled directly in order for the model to be taken seriously.

Top 6 isn't arbitrary. Top 8 isn't arbitrary. It has to do with what round of losers you lost in.

 

[Black Marf]

Top 6 isn't arbitrary. Top 8 isn't arbitrary. It has to do with what round of losers you lost in.

Yes. However, if I understand it, MLG uses further rounds and matches to determine 5th, 7th, and 10th place.

http://www.mlgpro.com/pro-circuit/2010/

6. If multiple Players, finishing the Event ranked in the top 16, are eliminated via the same Losers Bracket Round, they will be scheduled to play one, two, or three Consolation Matches in order to determine their exact 5th-16th Ranking. If the Players who win one and lose one Consolation Match haven’t played a Consolation Match against each other, they will play each other in a Consolation Match in order to break the tie. These tiebreaking Consolation Matches only apply to Players who lose in the same Losers Bracket Round. Consolation Matches will be scheduled to begin immediately after a Player is eliminated from the Event.

Thus, it is possible to determine 5th place accurately. That is, as accurately as tournament results can determine any placing. Thus, who got 5th is as accurate as who got 6th.