Official Metaknight Discussion

[salaboB]

In this post, we attempt to gather data from a non-seeded tourney!

In this one too!

Are you joking? That is ridiculous. MK did significantly worse than people predicted. period. Concidering he was the most played character at MLG it makes sence to expect to see multiple MKs, but he didn't dominate anything. M2K won, tryant got 3rd. after that there are what... 5 MKs in the TOP 16 with characters like luigi pika kirby ZSS etc. beating top MKs to reach top 16 spots.

Just... stop there isn't some secert hidden within the numbers here MK is definitely beatable if you actually try to beat him. Something my region has been proving since the games come out. (and something my region proved this weekend in Orlando)

But you only call one person on it?

 

[Jack Kieser]

I'm kind of confused. Why is everyone acting like MK epically failed at this tournament? He kicked slightly more butt than was predicted! Not less.

Continuing the "Large Tourney Month" line, I had said at some point that MLG should be considering MK to be slightly above 40% dominance in January. April would be around 45%. Our MLG results, using Ankoku's method as per usual?

MK: 52%
Snake: 24%
Pika: 14%
Diddy, Falco, Luigi: 4%

Money-wise, MK took 57% of the singles prizes.

It could even out to close to the predicted 45% once the month's other tournaments are averaged in, but MLG is certainly going to get itself some heavy weighting.

 

[fkacyan]

*Opens BBR recommended ruleset*
*Control-F*
*types "seed"*
Huh. No results.


Yeah, seeding is a good thing.. as long as every player gets a fair chance to earn their seeds, anyway. But failing to seed doesn't invalidate a whole tourney. Heck, Chess tournaments are generally run in such a way as to cause the players assumed to be the best to play each other as early as possible.

In any case, I was pointing out that this tournament certainly doesn't demonstrate a surprising failure of MK's dominance. His performance was what one should logically expect given the trends.. and maybe slightly better. You can argue whether this that or the other factor affected the results at MLG Orlando, but you can do that at every tourney.

Hence, pools! At least at the first MLG. Thankfully, seeding will be done with ranking points from now on, so the seeding will get better and better at every MLG event, at least in theory. And I never said it invalidated it, by the way. It just makes the results less accurate, which means the data is less conclusive.

@Salabo: Quoting one post is easier.

@Jack: Honchkrow works better for that picture because he can actually be a mixed sweeper, wheras Murkrow is just all kinds of suck.

 

[overgamer]

wtf @ luigi in top 8. That's awesome.

made me laugh as well. Why not?

 

[Jack Kieser]

@Jack: Honchkrow works better for that picture because he can actually be a mixed sweeper, wheras Murkrow is just all kinds of suck.

Yes, but pictures of Honchkrow look all kinds of suck. Leave it to me to be more interested in the look of my image macros.

 

[hotgarbage]

@Jack: Honchkrow works better for that picture because he can actually be a mixed sweeper, wheras Murkrow is just all kinds of suck.

Don't forget the fact that he's a ****ing pimp

Seriously just look at this guy

God****







Anyways on topic; personally I'm more "pro-correct ruleset" than anti/pro ban at this point. I say this because I feel that it's difficult to pin down the MK situation when there's no universally agreed upon ruleset to base the judgment off of, especially when his "brokeness" varies so wildly between said rulesets.

...Though then again seeing how no one really follows the current SBR ruleset I'm not sure how realistic this is <______>. My hope was that MLG would publish a SuPeR SpEcIaL aWeSoMe set and that when combined with the fact $MLG$ was using it the matter would be settled once and for all... but we all know how that turned out. Curious to see how the SBR-B is going to handle this.

 

[AvaricePanda]

also, inb4 rush of people coming into this thread saying MLG results proves MK should/shouldn't be banned

looks at above posts

. . .

HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

[fkacyan]

yes, But Pictures Of Honchkrow look All Kinds Of Suck. Leave It To Me To Be More Interested In The Look Of My Image Macros.

What

Sir

What

I Don't Even

 

[Jack Kieser]

Hahahaha! I literally lol'ed IRL when I read that reply. Thanks for that, Thio.

...but, yeah. Pictures of Honchkrow are not pretty. At least, the ones on Google aren't; none of them looked right.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Ya know, I just started messing around with my Pokemon Pearl after nearly 3 years, and Honchkrow caught my attention...

*checks Smogon*

NICE offensive stats! Pathetic speed... Wtf?

On-topic: MK's representation at MLG Orlando seemed fine to me.

 

[fkacyan]

Ya know, I just started messing around with my Pokemon Pearl after nearly 3 years, and Honchkrow caught my attention...

*checks Smogon*

NICE offensive stats! Pathetic speed... Wtf?

On-topic: MK's representation at MLG Orlando seemed fine to me.

What I use him for isn't sweeping, but for wall-breaking. He can take down both Hippowdon and Blissey with the right spread. Only issue is switching him in; he takes massive Stealth Rock damage.

On-topic: Most people will probably think it was fine.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

ITT: Pokemon only.

 

[GHNeko]

ITT: Pokemon only.

GG Brawl Community. ROFL.

 

[Mota]

3 MKs? whereas there was only one of every other char in top 8? BAN!

Sword dance>Baton pass to Garchomp is where it's at.

 

[Kitamerby]

How about that good ol' Agility > Baton pass to Marowak?

No love for Marowak. ;-;

On-topic: First national MK win in awhile, huh.

 

[Throwback]

Crow's stats are some scary ****.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Sword dance>Baton pass to Garchomp is where it's at.

Yes, so much so in fact, that he gets a ban.

 

[Nanaki]

After leaving Smashboards for a couple months, it's great to see Crow! still bringing the pain with the trends.

...it's not great to see all this Pokemon stuff, though. :/

 

[bigbucks]

Starly+Endeavor+Quick Attack+Force Band= Raep. :v.

Ontopic: the mlg results showed a rise of some unlikely characters. Weegee gets mk/marth/D3 *****, an biglou still got into top 8.
goes to show. lol

 

[Raziek]

I'm astounded that people are still stuck on this type of thing. Didn't we explain the concept of outliers well enough?

If we remove the top placer for each character, the results are mostly MK. =/

One Luigi and One Pikachu do not balanced results make.

 

[Kewkky]

I dunno, Raziek, the results seemed pretty awesome to me. Unless you're specifically asking for a perfectly balanced and harmonized roster, I see nothing wrong with MLG's results. MK is still the best, but at least he didn't take 8/12 top spots, right? Not to mention it garnered a lot of attention at the event from non-smashers as well. I heard no stories of MK being cheap to get top spots either, and the only upsets were the predictions for who will place top 8.

Remember that in every fighting game, there's always one character that's a step ahead of everyone else. MK is Brawl's top character, so obviously he will have some more top spots than other characters. There's no way we'll have a one-main-per-character-streak in the top 8 all the time (essentially 8 different characters in the top 8), so you have to get used to seeing results with two or three of the same character in the list... Now, taking what I have just said into consideration and applying it to MLG's results, you see that it's nothing we should be angry about, nor afraid of... It's reassuring that results like that are still happening at such large-scale tourneys! However, when results like Pound4 rolls in, we know that there's a problem happening there...

You know what's the difference between Pound4 and MLG? The very small LGL limit. I KNOW that what makes MK such a despised character in the eyes of even the pros is how he can play extremely dirty with his pseudo-stalling strategies, and Pound4 allowed this with its overseeing of stalling tactics and time-outs. LOTS of people were looking down at MLG and its ruleset, but now that Orlando finished, you see people talking about it in the MLG subforum about how successful of a tournament it was, and all because of the out-of-the-ordinary rules (yes, some rules WERE weird, but people handled them well). Now, when hyped tourneys such as Pound4 happen whose rules are exactly how people want them to be, they end up complaining over the amount of liberty characters like MK are allowed to have, like how they're given the freedom to pseudo-stall as much as they desire, and how disappointing of a tourney it ended up being later on in the brackets.


Raziek, I hate MK's pseudo-stalling techniques, and I'd try my best to take care of the problem, if I had a way to do it... But I don't hate MK as a character. If worse comes to worst and it's impossible to limit MK with rules, then I'm all for a ban! But you can't say that this tourney is representative of how MK overdominates tournaments, all I see is a very satisfying layout of characters in the top 8, lots of happy faces, and praise over how MLG has presented Brawl as a game worth spectating... And succeeded.

 

[Espy Rose]

It was just one tournament. It was a success, but it was just one tournament.

There will be more MLG events. And once people learn what they can and can't get away with as Meta Knight...
It will be hell.

 

[Kewkky]

It was just one tournament. It was a success, but it was just one tournament.

There will be more MLG events. And once people learn what they can and can't get away with as Meta Knight...
It will be hell.

I'm not saying MK isn't a problem, I'm saying that people shouldn't try twisting the results to fit their arguments. The results say that it was great, so trying to make it seem like it's not all right at all just won't fly this way.

 

[fkacyan]

It was just one tournament. It was a success, but it was just one tournament.

There will be more MLG events. And once people learn what they can and can't get away with as Meta Knight...
It will be hell.

Yes, but hell for who?

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm not saying MK isn't a problem, I'm saying that people should try twisting the results to fit their arguments. The results say that it was great, so trying to make it seem like it's not all right at all just won't fly this way.

Wait, should?

And yeah, I agree with the rest. I'm just saying that we shouldn't jump to conclusions just because MLG had one successful event.

Didn't the Clash of Titans series run 3 successful events prior to CoT4?

Yes, but hell for who?

That's what I'm hoping the results for the next few MLG events will answer.

 

[etecoon]

I like how every time the results don't look like this

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.

pro ban just says "NEXT TIME!" and then like 5 nationals later when it gets anywhere near that they go "SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

 

[PottyJokes]

so much pessimism in this thread wow. everyone said this tourney would be filled with MKs timing people out ...

 

[Kewkky]

Wait, should?

Whoopsies, typo!

But I'm sure you understood what i meant, since that one word didn't fit in with anything else.

 

[fkacyan]

Didn't the Clash of Titans series run 3 successful events prior to CoT4?

Oh man, Espy, that... That's just mean.

 

[Espy Rose]

Whoopsies, typo!

But I'm sure you understood what i meant, since that one word didn't fit in with anything else.

I did, I just like pointing it out.
People can easily get the wrong idea from a single typo, and the situation would only worsen.
Just trying to help.

Oh man, Espy, that... That's just mean.

I hated having to use it as an example to help support my point, but I couldn't think of anything else at the time!
Forgive me!

 

[WindMajor]

I like how every time the results don't look like this

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.

pro ban just says "NEXT TIME!" and then like 5 nationals later when it gets anywhere near that they go "SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

I love it when results like this come out....

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.

...the anti-bans cry subjectivity and only look at first place.

 

[DMG]

MK players obviously not gay enough. They need to take a page out of the Wario handbook. Patience.

 

[fkacyan]

MK players obviously not gay enough. They need to take a page out of the Wario handbook. Patience.

I'm going to give you a tip from a professional ****talker, DMG, and say that "Well they did it wrong" is definitely not the way to go.

 

[etecoon]

I love it when results like this come out....

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.

...the anti-bans cry subjectivity and only look at first place.

well obviously we should ban snake

 

[DMG]

Ok give me a ratio of MK time outs, how much Green Greens was picked, Ledge Grabs, what kind of sandwich they were eating before the match, what shoes they wore...

In all seriousness though, let's be quite honest. Green Greens. It's there. Ready. Unclothed and Naked, for the world to **** on it. Instead, in the distance, you see a tiny blob with a sword contemplating... wondering... in his mind, he see's Frigate. And the Gods stand by waiting for the poor soul to seal his fate, knowing there is no hope for humanity if he makes this decision.

MK players, people who second MK or main G&W, anyone who truly plays gay, has failed me if they did not attempt to take someone somewhere gay like Brinstar/GG/Norfair.

 

[fkacyan]

Ok give me a ratio of MK time outs, how much Green Greens was picked, Ledge Grabs, what kind of sandwich they were eating before the match, what shoes they wore...

In all seriousness though, let's be quite honest. Green Greens. It's there. Ready. Unclothed and Naked, for the world to **** on it. Instead, in the distance, you see a tiny blob with a sword contemplating... wondering... in his mind, he see's Frigate. And the Gods stand by waiting for the poor soul to seal his fate, knowing there is no hope for humanity if he makes this decision.

MK players, people who second MK or main G&W, anyone who truly plays gay, has failed me if they did not attempt to take someone somewhere gay like Brinstar/GG/Norfair.

Alternately, they could be playing an opponent who is better at those characters and does not want to play on those stages against them.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Ok, so I was one of those people kind of surprised about MLG O's results / waiting to see how the next few events go... but I have to say:

Green Greens. It's there. Ready. Unclothed and Naked, for the world to **** on it. Instead, in the distance, you see a tiny blob with a sword contemplating... wondering... in his mind, he see's Frigate. And the Gods stand by waiting for the poor soul to seal his fate, knowing there is no hope for humanity if he makes this decision.

MK players, people who second MK or main G&W, anyone who truly plays gay, has failed me if they did not attempt to take someone somewhere gay like Brinstar/GG/Norfair.

...best visualization ever.

 

[Crow!]

Ok give me a ratio of MK time outs, how much Green Greens was picked, Ledge Grabs, what kind of sandwich they were eating before the match, what shoes they wore...

I would love to have access to data like this. Also relevant would be what percentage of sets featured two wins by the same player in a row - were the stage list too unbalanced, you would expect an unusually large percentage of matches to be Win-Loss-Win, as players would rarely lose on their counterpicks.

 

[Mew2King]

I feel so discredited for my win at MLG so I am very sad. I practiced extremely, extremely hard for it. For the 2 weeks prior to this tournament, I played for like 2-8 hours every day to practice to make sure I was at my best for this, no matches went to time out, and besides Ally, I ***** everybody else. I feel I deserved it because of the huge amount of practice and effort I put into this tourney, more than any other tourney ever before it, but it's just going to be discredited anyway so what's the point. I wish I could just feel happy about my win

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

And this has to do with the discussion how...?