Official MBR Tier List

[Deleted member]

Umbreon, I secondary Samus, I find Marth is a lot harder to deal with.

Marth has a lot of safe options that come out in mere frames, very quick attacks with good range.

Samus has nothing in her arsenal to beat Marth's safe spacing options, maybe camping and approaching with a Wavedash> FTilt. We literally need to either intercept, or wait until he's finished swinging his sword.

I'm pretty sure mindless needle camping and WD in and out of shield > react is better than samus's entire character. I think marth vs samus is pretty bad, but I really just don't see what tools she has to deal with sheik at all. samus vs sheik is horrendous.

 

[rhan]

Samus v Sheik is easier then Samus v Marth.

Fact.

Sheik is a nice stroll in a Cadillac while Marth is a ****ing roller coaster taking you for a ride.

 

[Druggedfox]

Samus v Sheik is easier then Samus v Marth.

Fact.

Sheik is a nice stroll in a Cadillac while Marth is a ****ing roller coaster taking you for a ride.

If this is to be taken seriously...could you please defend that? I mean, umbreon may not have gone into all the specifics, but at least he pointed out a strategy he believes ***** samus. All you did is state something =/ Reasons for things are good

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Speed/Rushdown:
Fox
Falcon
Pikachu
Pichu

Disjointed Spacing:
Jigglypuff
Marth
Ganondorf
Roy
Zelda

All Court Players:
Sheik
Doctor Mario
Game & Watch

Projectile Spacing:
Falco
Peach
Samus
Young Link

Ground Spacing:
Ice Climbers
Luigi
Mewtwo

Idkhowtolabelthesetwobuttheyareprettysimilarcharacters:
Donkey Kong
Ness

Can fit into two catagories or none:
Mario
Link
Yoshi
Bowser
Kirby

 

[KAOSTAR]

Speed/Rushdown:
Fox
Falcon
Pikachu
Pichu

Disjointed Spacing:
Jigglypuff
Marth
Ganondorf
Roy
Zelda

All Court Players:
Sheik
Doctor Mario
Game & Watch

Projectile Spacing:
Falco
Peach
Samus
Young Link

Ground Spacing:
Ice Climbers
Luigi
Mewtwo

Idkhowtolabelthesetwobuttheyareprettysimilarcharacters:
Donkey Kong
Ness

Can fit into two catagories or none:
Mario
Link
Yoshi
Bowser
Kirby

I don't quite understand all court.

m2 is pretty reliant on zoning from sb. but he is also pretty ground based.

I also think samus is more ground based off a style like hugs. she is constantly in and out of your grill. throwing tilts and jabs. missiles are helpful but samus doesn't seem to rely on them for zoning and approaching.

why are doc/mario n different categories?

I think you need something like a castle ho. zelda, ganon, dk are solid at defending their own space with single strong hits. bowser is kinda a fortress ***** too. tries to capitalize off up b or your approach.

kirby is probably disjointed spacing. as is gw.

ness and yoshi might be all court, idk.

link projectile/disjointed spacing.

 

[mallu000]

If I understand All Court correctly Mario fits into that much more than Doc. I don't think Doc is as all-around as Mario if that is what you mean with All Court.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sveet get that **** out of here this is the competitive smash bros melee forum not a Nintendo Power guide to Mario Tennis.

 

[Shonic]

I think Mario fit into two categories though

 

[Cosmo!]

I don't think you can successfully group the characters like that

e.g. I think kirby can be very ground based but he can also try to do a sort of aerial spacing thing, it's kind of a mix, really grouping the characters like that is just full of disagreements all around

 

[.Marik]

I'm pretty sure mindless needle camping and WD in and out of shield > react is better than samus's entire character. I think marth vs samus is pretty bad, but I really just don't see what tools she has to deal with sheik at all. samus vs sheik is horrendous.

They both **** Samus pretty hard. Marth just pressures a lot more.

But:

Samus v Sheik is easier then Samus v Marth.

Fact.

Sheik is a nice stroll in a Cadillac while Marth is a ****ing roller coaster taking you for a ride.

Ding.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yoshi is cute.

 

[.Marik]

<3

I bought a Yoshi plushie three weeks ago, Blowtoes has seen it.

Definitely bringing him to your house David. No pictures yet though.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Sveet get that **** out of here this is the competitive smash bros melee forum not a Nintendo Power guide to Mario Tennis.

i do what i want

If I understand All Court correctly Mario fits into that much more than Doc. I don't think Doc is as all-around as Mario if that is what you mean with All Court.

does mario have any kill combos? no. doc does. he also has many spacing tools, a versatile projectile, gimps, ect. he has a lot of tools, even if his tools are mediocre.

I don't think you can successfully group the characters like that

e.g. I think kirby can be very ground based but he can also try to do a sort of aerial spacing thing, it's kind of a mix, really grouping the characters like that is just full of disagreements all around

Yeah i agree i just randomly felt like posting abuot how i felt certain characters were pretty similar like marth and puff, fox and falcon, and so on. for some reason i thought i had to group all of the characters so i continued grouping ones that seemed close.

 

[leffen]

unformated post inc.

@Marik

There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.


---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.

Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.

Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are ******** and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.

fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )

60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).

All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.

As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )

Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).


@V3ctorman.
You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.

About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.


I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.

If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.

If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.

Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.

Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing

"Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.

Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.

Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.

Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.

Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).

Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.

I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.

Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.

@Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).

Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.

 

[.Marik]

^

Can you stop posting? Please?

My Yoshi would **** yours. Again, stop posting.

 

[CloneHat]

Obvious troll.

His descriptions of Yoshi's matchups are Jigglypuff: "Time her out." and Fox: "Tech chase him and he's dead." as well as a lot of: "You must really suck."

 

[.Marik]

Obvious troll.

His descriptions of Yoshi's matchups are Jigglypuff: "Time her out." and Fox: "Tech chase him and he's dead." as well as a lot of: "You must really suck."

Those are awfully long posts for a troll, indicating he's completely ********, and serious.

I hope he's trolling. People need to stop excessively breeding, otherwise.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

you scrubs just haven't played svampen. (which leffen has)

 

[Jim Morrison]

you scrubs just haven't played svampen. (which leffen has)

 

[SSSnake]

Spoiler

unformated post inc.

@Marik

There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.


---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.

Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.

Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are ******** and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.

fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )

60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).

All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.

As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )

Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).


@V3ctorman.
You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.

About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.


I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.

If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.

If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.

Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.

Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing

"Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.

Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.

Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.

Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.

Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).

Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.

I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.

Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.

@Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).

Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.

yeah i pretty much overrated yoshi like i said in this blackened text, because he isnt going very far in the meta game.

 

[Tamoo]

Seriously wtf dude, definitely format your quotes better

 

[Mind Trick]

wtf @ this^

@leffen, have you played IVP's fox yet with Yoshi? (I havent lol, only with fox in teams, but I know he is a smart fox player)
I've been playing good foxes like zgetto's, amsah's, adam's, remen's, trained noob's for a while now and I know my game is still far from perfect, but I don't see how it's easy to catch a lasering fox on a big stage, or make every combo a z2d. Occasionally it happens, but with good DI a lot of b&b yoshi stuff can be avoided.

Auto cancel dair, what? Also I don't think Svampen or Fumi have accomplished much aside from evolving the Yoshi metagame, I never heard of them beating names or taking top spots in tourneys (aside from EK and CJ that 1 time).

 

[V3ctorMan]

unformated post inc.

@Marik

There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.


---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.

Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.

Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are ******** and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.

fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )

60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).

All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.

As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )

Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).


@V3ctorman.
You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.

About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.


I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.

If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.

If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.

Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.

Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing

"Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.

Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.

Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.

Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.

Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).

Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.

I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.

Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.

@Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).

Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.

Hey I didn't mean to offend you in any way/shape/form if I did..

I was just giving my insight of what I thought my opinions were on the MU, It's true I haven't beena Yoshi main for too long..and I haven't played Sweden's best etc.... but I've played some of America's best... (primarily AZ's) and I'd say we got some great players here

Umm, well I suppose, if you feel about what you said is true... then I'm not gonna try to prove you wrong... I don't wanna start anything you know.. For Example: when I say. Fox's grab game > Yoshi's.. I feel Yoshi's at a loss in two ways... First the only combo potential is d-throw > techchase > etc.. Second... you can't really tell me that a Yoshi will grab fox more than Fox will grab him.... it's bad enough that Yoshi's grab range.. won't even connect if you're too close to the opponent.. then on top of actually landing grabs on Foxes as well...

and Nair from above on Fox, you're indeed correct too, but what if the Fox "baits your nair from above... he approaches baits your nair, as he DJ Nairs and now Fox has the priority and now Yoshi is jumpless.. >>; This is one of many ways Yoshi can be baited..

Fumi, Svampen, YoshiisCool, Mind Trick, Bioshi, Shiri, Gabe, many others.. I've watched them all, and I'm truly dedicating myself to playing Yoshi and to push his game.... If my lack of experience with Yoshi displeases you.. i'm sincerely sorry.. but i'm very confident.. on the concept(s) of Yoshi's pros/cons.. and of course.. I'm still learning too..

Most of your Puff arguments, I can come to some sort of an agreement with... to "some" extent(s) but many of the Foxes.. i'm really shocked... and from what you're proclaiming would be brand new info to me... ... I'd like to play PAL, to see if maybe something I'm potentially missing..but I thought I had Yoshi covered pretty fluently..

Unless I'm completely missing something.. I really thought my Yoshi was "pretty good" I'm hoping he is at least :embarrass and I'll continue to strive to keep improving with him...

Well it was really nice talking to you... I'll practice more to see if there's something I'm missing....sorry about the long reply

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yoshi sucks but might secretly in some twist of fate be almost as bad (or good) as Zelda.

Yoshi's players aren't as good as Cosmo, Taj, Axe, or w/e.

 

[Merkuri]

^ I love Cosmo, but we need to remember that midwest is the weakest region in the country. I'd really like to see how he does at a national.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

midwest falcons will come for you all we do is moonwalk into sexiness. when your falcon you win if your sexier I won when I moonwalked into afalcon punch off a cliff on my last life vs some roy we argeed I won.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

^ I love Cosmo, but we need to remember that midwest is the weakest region in the country. I'd really like to see how he does at a national.

midwest may be the weakest region, but chicago is the ****, and cosmo is top3 chicago.

 

[KirbyKaze]

^ I love Cosmo, but we need to remember that midwest is the weakest region in the country. I'd really like to see how he does at a national.

He's holding his own vs Kels and people that made it to R3 pools at Pound. A lot of talented people didn't make bracket at that tournament; R3 pools is pretty decent as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Cosmo!]

^ I love Cosmo, but we need to remember that midwest is the weakest region in the country. I'd really like to see how he does at a national.

I would like to see that as well.

Why I play Zelda:

I starting playing Zelda in mid 2009, as a joke. I decided to pick 3 completely random characters, and would use them at the next tournament I went to, as a way to grief people because I'm pretty good with low tiers and I wanted to have some fun.

Those 3 characters were Zelda, Roy, and Bowser.

I played as hard as I could with these 3 characters that day, despite it kind of being a joke it was also an experiment. At the end of the day, I felt Bowser was too limited to be good, Roy was too limited to be good, and Zelda... was a good character.

I would keep a pocket Zelda for months to come, while still maining Marth with a secondary Falco.

I went to Pound 4, going mostly Marth. I got 1st seed in 1st round pools. In my 2nd round pool I had Taj, PKMVodka, and Adam(from europe), along with 2 fox mains. I beat the foxes but lost to Taj in Marth Dittos, to PKMVodka in Marth v Falcon, and to Adam in Marth v Sheik. This gave me 4th seed thus I didn't make it out.

Meanwhile my buddy Kels got 25th. I know I'm not that much worse than Kels. Frustrated with Marth, the day after Pound I decided to start maining Zelda because aspects of her game fit well with my playstyle. In addition to that, I could start to prove what I knew but nobody else did: that Zelda isn't so bad.

I started placing top 3 at local events. At SMYM I doubted my character choice at certain points, which actually cost me sets late into the tournament. A sharp Zelda is better than a rusty Falco. I lost to Chexr in winners when I had a real chance of making winners finals in a 100+ man tournament. I told myself to stop doubting Zelda.

POEIII was coming up and was the real test. I had every intention of going 100% Zelda except maybe Sheik dittos. At one point I did try Falco and got demolished, only to win the next 2 matches in a row as Zelda. That day I beat a lot of good people like RockCrock and macd. I lost to Kels.

Recently I've only gotten better, winning a tournament going 100% Zelda; the grand finals was against Chexr who had beaten my Falco at SMYM. At SCSYN3 I got revenge against Kels finally, along with beating Tink, Trail, and other strong contenders.

The best part of this is that I'm not even close to the limit of what this character offers; my videos are posted and immediate improvement is recognizable.

I still drop matches to plenty of people around here; there are many things I'm not yet comfortable with, and do not have enough experience to capitalize on perfectly, the way Axe does with Pikachu so often. I still have a long way to go.

I would love to play at another national, going all Zelda (except vs sheik ). I dunno if I can make it to Pound 5 or Genesis 2, but I would like to.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Cosmo let's play you're so cool.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

What i loved about that post was you refused to blame zedla. I think melee is mad balnced overall yes i've played against sheiks as pichu other than movement camping(impossible to beat) I believe everyone has a chance to do amazing. when I play pichu vs sheik I NEVER john about that match-up maybe my legs being cut off or something but NEVER the match-up. the question is why did I let them grab me? If I let them miss I would've gotten that grab correct?

this isn't like i'm off the stage the whole time as sheik or something this is I F***ed up and let them punish me.

hey comso If you picked zedla i'd most likly be mad your going soft me and i'd camp till I discovered you mained zedla if we played and I didn't know it.

 

[KAOSTAR]

@cosmo...respect!

yoshi is taking up too much space in this thread. no way yoshi can catch campy fox.

 

[Druggedfox]

No way yoshi can catch campy fox? If we're talking low tiers.... how the hell does zelda catch campy fox >_>

 

[SuperMatt]

campy fox will always lose if he cant realize when to switch to offense mode

campy fox that knows when to attack..aka best character in the game, will always beat zelda, and every other character

 

[Blistering Speed]

No way yoshi can catch campy fox? If we're talking low tiers.... how the hell does zelda catch campy fox >_>

She doesn't.

 

[choknater]

yoshi?

v-man got this

 

[hungrybox]

Vman makes me rethink's Yoshi's placing.

Regarldess, he (yoshi) is still garbagio tier.

 

[EPsilon933]

I would love to play at another national, going all Zelda (except vs sheik ). I dunno if I can make it to Pound 5 or Genesis 2, but I would like to.

If I ever see you anywhere I'd love to play you.

 

[Merkuri]

She doesn't.

Cosmo does.

And really Yoshi isn't any slower than Samus. If Samus can do then I don't see why Yoshi can't.

 

[Stratocaster]

@ cosmo! and other Zelda mains

I've always wondered this... why don't you utilize Zelda's full character? I mean Sheik and Zelda have the unique advantage of being a 2-in-1 character. I know some people will argue if you are willing to switch from Zelda to Sheik you might as well just use Sheik because she's better, but I disagree. A really great Zelda main should be able to fully utilize her down b as a mix-up if nothing else. If someone is doing alright against your Zelda, and you switch to sheik then they're mentally going to be messed up in their game plan, rhythm and confidence. This also makes your Zelda tougher to figure out because someone with little experience against Zelda (almost everyone) will gain the upperhand the longer they play vs. Zelda, using some time as sheik will give them less time to learn and require more adaptation from your opponent. Zelda has a better matchup against the IC's than sheik, and I'd argue she's about the same or better vs puff (because sheik relies on gimps that don't work vs jiggs, and sheik gets combo'd into rest). I think its a legitimate strategy for someone to try.

tldr: zeldas should second sheik and go from being good low tier players, to great players using high and low together

but you all will probably disagree *shrugs*