Official MBR Tier List

[KAOSTAR]

I dont care who you are, I just dont see a way for ppl to say anybody is the top contender in smash other than fox.

His limits will be exceeded far beyond other characters.

 

[Merkuri]

I dont care who you are, I just dont see a way for ppl to say anybody is the top contender in smash other than fox.

His limits will be exceeded far beyond other characters.

Fox is somewhat overrated. Anyone who says they can't see how Falco can be on the same level as Fox is just being an idiot. Falco is heavier than Fox, has lasers that stun, ridiculously broken auto-**** combos, best approach in the game, shield pressuring in the game, stupidly strong d-tilt and this list goes on and on. Fox's advantage over fox is stronger up Smash and better recovery, I'm not trying to belittle that I just don't see why historically he has been higher in the tier list. It seems silly to me.

 

[White_Mike]

anyone who says puff is 4th or 5th should stab their balls with needles

I have her as third so I guess I'm good and my balls stay safe? lol


Honestly, the tier list doesn't matter too much.

Not like tons of new players need a tier list to get into this game, they're all playing barwl.

Any changes to the tier list won't change tourney outcomes., but this "final" tier list is soooo wrong.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Fox is somewhat overrated. Anyone who says they can't see how Falco can be on the same level as Fox is just being an idiot. Falco is heavier than Fox, has lasers that stun, ridiculously broken auto-**** combos, best approach in the game, shield pressuring in the game, stupidly strong d-tilt and this list goes on and on. Fox's advantage over fox is stronger up Smash and better recovery, I'm not trying to belittle that I just don't see why historically he has been higher in the tier list. It seems silly to me.

I underlined all the stuff that was wrong.

Fox is much better than falco, idk if you're a good troll or an idiot who is also a troll.

 

[Merkuri]

I underlined all the stuff that was wrong.

Fox is much better than falco, idk if you're a good troll or an idiot who is also a troll.

And I don't know if you're an idiot or if you're just trying to troll me.

Seriously? You're saying Falco doesn't have broken auto-combos? He doesn't have the best shield pressuring in the game(that's just laughable); I suppose the approach is debatable but please tell me what a better approach than Falco's down air? And is his d-tilt not retardedly powerful. In hindsight I feel bad for responding to your post, it was stupid.

Edit: And please give a reason as to why you think Fox is ''much better than faclo''. I've never actually heard a sensible coherent argument as to why Fox is much better than Falco.

 

[JPOBS]

well
fox is faster
his sheild pressure is a little more air-tight than falcos.
not to meantion he has a easier time killing up, and killing sideways and downward is arguably just as easy for him.

he gimps pretty much the entire cast at any percent with shine
his shine combos into kill moves vs most of the cast at any pecent (read:waveshine->upsmash kills between 80-999%). Falcos shine kinda gets less useful the more damage the opponent has
he's better on bad stages
his throws actually combo into other moves

just a few off the top of my head. i think fox and falco are tied for best char

 

[Incronaut]

the only argument i have to add is that falco's combos are, although ****, not as auto and broken with DI and versus some of the floatier characters... once those are factored in, i find that they have ways to counteract combos

this is generalizing a lot but this whole argument is pretty general anyways

 

[KAOSTAR]

Im sorry but Im wayyy more afraid of fox combos than falco. Falco has auto combos but they are pretty staple. dair/nair shine. There are ways of getting outta that ****, its about whether or not you can implement them. Fox, is so much more versatile when he attacks. sooo many ****in angles its unreal. ***** has speed and its not like he is weak.

Falcos is harder to approach imo.

 

[TheManaLord]

Puff
falco
fox

sheik
marth
peach

falcon

 

[White_Mike]

Puff
falco
fox

sheik
marth
peach

falcon

Falcon 7th? NO'

He should at least be 6th above Peach IMO.

He is mad underrated, does well against marth, jiggs, and peach while peach doesn't do very well again any of the top tiers.

 

[JPOBS]

Falcon 7th? NO'

He should at least be 6th above Peach IMO.

He is mad underrated, does well against marth, jiggs, and peach while peach doesn't do very well again any of the top tiers.

Falcon doesnt do well vs jiggs :/

falcon goes even with marth, and beats peach. Loses badly to falco, fox, sheik and jiggs.

Peach goes even with falco, slight disadvantage to sheik jiggs falcon, and loses badly to fox and marth.

i'd say peach over falcon is pretty justified

 

[Mew2King]

falco is better than fox in singles on neutrals

that much im sure of

fox is just better on like, corneria, and teams

 

[EC_Joey]

And I don't know if you're an idiot or if you're just trying to troll me.

Seriously? You're saying Falco doesn't have broken auto-combos? He doesn't have the best shield pressuring in the game(that's just laughable); I suppose the approach is debatable but please tell me what a better approach than Falco's down air? And is his d-tilt not retardedly powerful. In hindsight I feel bad for responding to your post, it was stupid.

Edit: And please give a reason as to why you think Fox is ''much better than faclo''. I've never actually heard a sensible coherent argument as to why Fox is much better than Falco.

Learn your space animals.

 

[Mew2King]

approach with falco's nair more because it can't be shield grabbed as easily (at all)

on the other hand, falco's dair cannot be crouch cancelled and it has a better/bigger hitbox

 

[#HBC | Mac]

how doesn't fox have better sheild pressure than falco

 

[JPOBS]

edit: nvm
10nvms

 

[Mew2King]

i think falco's shield pressure is better on a human level. None of this shine to break your shield garbage

 

[ZIO]

And I believe that, too.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

that doesnt make sense since fox's SH is quicker and since his dair multihit's. And fox is able to punish rolls/oos options alot easier due to being faster in general

Unless falco's dair/nair have more shieldstun then fox's aerials

 

[Binx]

that doesnt make sense since fox's SH is quicker and since his dair multihit's. And fox is able to punish rolls/oos options alot easier due to being faster in general

Unless falco's dair/nair have more shieldstun then fox's aerials

Yeah but Falco has more tools to force you to shield in the first place, lasers that lock you on the ground, and so much priority from above and a high jump, his whole character is designed to keep you locked in place, limiting your movement and forcing shields then predicting your OoS option and punishing you.

IMO Peach actually has the best shield pressure once she is on top of you, but not everyone is good enough to get inside, Falco is really fricken good.

IMO the Tier list should still be

Fox
Falco
in no particular order Jiggs, Marth, Sheik
Peach
Falcon
ICs

I feel like Puff is getting better and better the more the game evolves because she is so hard to combo and no one can really keep her entirely shut out, I used to think that Marth and Sheik could just continue to outrange her but once jiggs lands a hit she can go to town, Marth and Sheik can't.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Yeah but Falco has more tools to force you to shield in the first place, lasers that lock you on the ground, and so much priority from above and a high jump, his whole character is designed to keep you locked in place, limiting your movement and forcing shields then predicting your OoS option and punishing you.

though i agree, this is kind of irrelevant and doesn't pertain to the conversation at hand. we're discussing shield pressure specifically not which character makes yu wanna shield the most

 

[Niko45]

Falco
Puff
Fox

Sheik

Marth
Peach
CF

 

[PK Webb]

Falco
Puff
Fox

Sheik

Marth
Peach
CF

I would jus switch puff and fox
Good list

 

[hungrybox]

People really think Falco is the best in the game?































that's ****ing cool

 

[Blistering Speed]

Lol really? Mango mains Falco for a bit and now he's better then Fox? For gods sake, just look at both characters objectively and it's quite obvious. If the other contributory thing is tournament results, then guys, it's Mango. PP ***** sure but so does Jman.

 

[White_Mike]

Falcon doesnt do well vs jiggs :/

falcon goes even with marth, and beats peach. Loses badly to falco, fox, sheik and jiggs.

Peach goes even with falco, slight disadvantage to sheik jiggs falcon, and loses badly to fox and marth.

i'd say peach over falcon is pretty justified

I thought the general consensus was that falcon does well against jiggs? I guess not...

Falcons generally place higher than peach with the exception of armada and falcon is a character that can actually win one of his "****" 60-40 matchups easily because he can just overwhelm you.

I also don't think Peach goes even with falco because I think he can easily camp her or combo her but idk. I guess she can gimp him easily, but so can anyone else.

 

[nyc_tag$]

Fox Falco Puff Sheik Marth Falcon Peach

 

[Animal]

its so debatable ahhhhhhhh

 

[Incronaut]

Fox Falco Puff Sheik Marth Peach Falcon

with peach and marth possibly switched but probably not

 

[LumpyCPU...]

how are any of you even debating the placements of peach and falcon?

peach and falcon are definitely top 7 but no where near top 5. the gap between top tier and high tier (considering puff is top tier) is so huge and obvious that it shouldn't be in question.

i understand marth isn't as strong a character anymore compared to the fox, falco, and puff these days.
but to consider him lower than peach is outrageous.

this is all my opinion blah blah i know everyone disagrees but how can people think marth sucks now??

 

[ZIO]

From what I hear, he's not played with as much as he used to be. He doesn't hold a strong image in the scene any more. So people are basing it off of what characters are appearing more often, tournament wise.

As far as personal opinions go, I still think Marth is the best. Go Marth! You da bess.

 

[Incronaut]

how are any of you even debating the placements of peach and falcon?

peach and falcon are definitely top 7 but no where near top 5. the gap between top tier and high tier (considering puff is top tier) is so huge and obvious that it shouldn't be in question.

i understand marth isn't as strong a character anymore compared to the fox, falco, and puff these days.
but to consider him lower than peach is outrageous.

this is all my opinion blah blah i know everyone disagrees but how can people think marth sucks now??

thats why i kinda said probably not, but no need to get all angry about it...

i was just thinking of how they have somewhat similar top tier matchups, and peach's metagame is evolving a lot imo...

but again, thats why i said probably not, dont bite me

 

[JPOBS]

I thought the general consensus was that falcon does well against jiggs? I guess not...

Falcons generally place higher than peach with the exception of armada and falcon is a character that can actually win one of his "****" 60-40 matchups easily because he can just overwhelm you.

I also don't think Peach goes even with falco because I think he can easily camp her or combo her but idk. I guess she can gimp him easily, but so can anyone else.

Yea, the general consensus these days is that jiggs raes falcon, and peach goes even with falco cuz she has ridonkulous punishes and edgeguarding to level the field. you can check the matchup thread on both these matchups for more infos.

I agree falcon places higher than peach at tournies, but i think thats because falcon is much more strongly represented in america (and the world) than peach is.
hax, darkrain, and SS are imo flat out better players than any peach in america right now. that doesnt change the fact that peaches matchups are better for her.

i agree that falcon has a shot at overcoming any disadvantage based on his combo ability and speed, and if the player can get enough reads and tech chases, then he can beat even the best fox/falcos etc, but i chalk that up to player skill and not intrinsic character ability. I mean, when i see hax 0-death space animals with like 3 reads in a single techchase, its less about falcon and more about the player at that point imo

 

[White_Mike]

I guess your right but last i checked in the matchup thread, it was 55-45 falco to peach.

And if that's the case then Peach loses every match up in the top 7 where as falcon loses every match up in the top 7 with the exception of his beating peach and going even with marth, which kinda makes me think he is better.

He does lose some of the matchups by a greater margin than peach and i mean if the falco peach matchup really is even then i guess that would throw my whole reasoning aside, but I just feel like Falcon has more options to win a match. I guess it's cuz I don't see very many good peaches out there.

Even if peach goes even with falco, falcon goes even with marth so it comes down to which beats which in my opinion, and falcon beats peach.

Then again, falcon does get ***** a lot harder in most of the top 7 matchups compared to peach...so the overall difference numbers wise is probably in peaches favor...idk whatever, as long as everyone agrees that peach and falcon are both not top 5.

 

[otg]

Falcon also does worse vs. various Middle/Low tiers then Peach does.

 

[Zoler]

Peach slight disadvantage to sheik

I summon Amsah!

 

[White_Mike]

Falcon also does worse vs. various Middle/Low tiers then Peach does.

Does that really matter though?

Anyone can have sheik as a secondary for that because she is easy to play.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Does that really matter though?

Anyone can have sheik as a secondary for that because she is easy to play.

No character is easy at top level because you have to know so much and be so accustomed to them.

And yes, to a lesser extent then any higher tier matchup, but they still matter.

 

[White_Mike]

Well I meant sheik is EASIER* than the other high tiers IMO.

Especially since she destroys mid-low tiers.

 

[JPOBS]

Ya white mike, the overall greater disparity between falcons losses to the top 5 make him just below peach i think and yea i think its important to take into consideration the purpose of a tierlist his random difficult matchups some with low tiers make peach overall just above him

I summon Amsah!

pal =/= ntsc

ntsc sheik > ntsc peach