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Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

ShroudedOne

ShroudedOne

Smash Hero
Premium
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
5,493
Eikelmann said:
i'll laugh while you lose to ganondorf players.
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This doesn't say anything about Ganon. Just about the people who play him.

Triple R beats people with Kirby. I can still say that Kirby sucks.

@Blistering: LOL. It certainly feels that way at times. As I thought about it today, I came to realize that her openings, while there, aren't as direct as say, Fox's. Or Falco's. They're like...I dunno. Smaller things. Like opportune turnip pulls.
 
Archangel

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
Umbreon said:
the best strategy against fox is usually the same as the best strategy against marth: hope that the player is bad, or wait until they do something bad. modern smash players do not focus on technically and strategically correct plays, but rather focus on some subset of previously-encountered situations. the lack of structured learning is easily exploitable in the short run and equally easily avoidable in the long run with focus and self-realization.

the ideal goal in competitive smash is no longer about playing to win, but rather playing to improve. the best thing a mediocre player can do is to structure your learning process. you are not necessarily a bad player, you are just a player that is making bad plays for one reason or another. you can simply stop doing this behavior at any time by choice. sometimes you won't always make the best play because of your reaction speed, weird or new interactions, and so forth, but improvement is not a complicated process, and you can just try to figure it out as you go while sticking to proper play.

however, you can still win in the short term with a basic understanding of why something in particular is bad, and then you can often stall until it happens based purely on the ineptitude of the opposing player. with marth, most of the players are just actively horrible and you can trade favorably with them. with fox, you rely harder on how frail he can be or how he randomly gets screwed by refined micro-interactions like SDI. i agree with blistering speed that fox players **** up a lot, but i think that it's more about the nature and demand of the game for the players moreso than the character.
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I agree with just about everything except you left out 1 of the 3 goals in competitive play which is not to win or improve but to impress. I feel it is do to the media aspect of competitive smash nowadays. Everything is streamed, recorded, or both so once players reach a general level of smash known as the mediocre zone they wish to impress.

There are alot of perks to being an impressive/flashy but player. Huge base of loving fans, weird borderline psychopathic fanatical comments on all of your videos...in a sense you become somewhat of a celebrity. I would say 70-80% of the smash community can't tell the difference between an impressive combo video and an actually talented player. However, after so many hyped players being exposed 1 by 1 from 07-present as impressive but not great this is becoming less and less of a thing.

Still I think it would be a good idea to warn players that those new combos, chains, or whatever you just finally mastered are good when applied correctly and safely. Just because you finally mastered doing the Uair, Nair, Uair, Knee combo with Falcon that you saw a year ago in your favorite falcon combo video does not mean you should spam attempting it in tournament. If it works people might ooooh and ahhh but if(when) it fails against better opposition you will try to fall back on the basics and fundamental strategies...except you won't have them.

on another note. I am going to take a wild guess and say that you play against bad Marth players pretty often?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Archangel said:
on another note. I am going to take a wild guess and say that you play against bad Marth players pretty often?
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Nope, I just know what it looks like. I only actually play them a few times a year. I can usually camp them out with Zelda, which is pathetic.
 
Archangel

Archangel

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Joined
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Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
Umbreon said:
Nope, I just know what it looks like. I only actually play them a few times a year. I can usually camp them out with Zelda, which is pathetic.
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haha I see. Well I figured there had to reason why you would use Marth and Bad in a sentence twice. Now I know(and knowing is half the battle).

Marth vs Zelda is a Match I had to play a few times to understand personally. At best it's 60-40, Worse it's 80-20. IMO. Zelda on certain stages I would give a legit shot but aside from that you need epic amounts of patience vs good Zeldas which is something alot of Marth players really lack. Fighting against the Falcon, Fox, Falcos of the world tend to condition Marth's for a faster pace. Fighting slower characters that are less easy to combo then becomes like playing a whole new game. Experience vs Peach, Puff, Samus, Zelda, and Luigi is good for budding Marth players but the matches are so boring in comparison to what is a common Marth vs ____ Match that many just don't have the patience to play it right at first.

Still, with that being said I see no reason why you should get camped out by Zelda....Sheik makes all the sense in the world but Zelda? Nah, can't see it.
 
odinNJ

odinNJ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
1,175
Location
NJ
yeah, ganon hits really hard.
However fighting ganon is like running a lottery,
tons of people give you money constantly (comboing ganon) but occasionally someone gets a random win (ganon aerial) and you lose tons of money (stocks).
 
The Star King

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
ShroudedOne said:
*looks at number of posts in this thread*

*becomes incredibly depressed*
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Don't feel bad. It could be worse. I somehow have 151 (gotta post 'em all) posts as of this one, and I don't contribute anything valuable to the Melee boards so that's 151 posts of pointlessness :troll:
 
Purpletuce

Purpletuce

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
1,316
Location
Corvallis, OR
I might start calling every character by their most noteable/famous main, just to be obnoxious. Except for Yoshi, I would call Yoshi me, even though Vman is probably the most noteable Yoshi. Only problem is I can't think of how to refer to G&W/Ness. . . oh wait a minute, I never do that anyway

:p
 
Ripple

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,632
Yoshi will always be fumi and for a nostalgia blast, dire vulcan for G&W

:phone:
 
Habefiet

Habefiet

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 22, 2011
Messages
442
Location
Minneapolis, MN
So apparently Marth is absolute trash, courtesy of no less an authority than Ken himself.

FEATURING:

--A 65-35 matchup with Pikachu in Pikachu's favor
--A spectacularly awful matchup with Puff
--A 100-0 matchup with Peach
--And more!

Who knew. Those few proud naysayers were right. Marth for D Tier.

>.>

What do people think about Marth-Pikachu? I'm legitimately curious now, because while everybody was giggling about some of Ken's assertions in the stream chat, Taj expressed the opinion that Ken had some good points about Marth-Pikachu. And I don't know anything about it so I don't even want to try to guess.
 
J

Jayk

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
124
To be fair, Ken more said Peach is "slightly favored" which is not far off the common concensus of even...
 
Habefiet

Habefiet

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 22, 2011
Messages
442
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Man, I'm gonna have to go through the stream archives sometime, because I swear he said at one point that a sufficiently good Peach just plain shouldn't lose to Marth, period.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
yeah, i only remember him saying that marth vs peach is slightly in peach's favor..and that doesn't seem like that outrageous of a statement...the 65-35 for pikachu is a little odd though...

I have thought for a while that marth seems disadvantaged vs pikachu unless you're on yoshi's but worse than sheik? i never knew
 
Habefiet

Habefiet

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 22, 2011
Messages
442
Location
Minneapolis, MN
john! said:
ITT we take the words of a 5-year-retired smasher as legitimate theorycrafting
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Please point out where any of us implied that some of Ken's assertions were completely valid in a completely non-sarcastic manner. :/ As a result of Ken making them, that is to say--I don't think anyone is seriously taking Ken's opinion on Marth-Pikachu with anything other than a massive grain of salt, even if they also think Marth-Pikachu is weird.
 
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