Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[Grim Tuesday]

*HungryBox = Mango

 

[Beat!]

M2K Marth vs Hbox has happened, though.



I think Marth has a slight advantage over Puff. Definitely not in Puff's favour. Even M2K thinks the matchup is even.

 

[Strong Badam]

Link to a video? If it wasn't recorded it's also useless to site in this discussion lol.

 

[Beat!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9ET0CdOAcU

I didn't mention it for discussion purposes, I just wanted to point out that it had happened.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I have problems with a lot of the decisions m2k made that game

 

[Beat!]

Yeah, no kidding.

 

[ZaXXoR]

I like this tier list cuz I'm like I just owned ya with a Tier F Byotch

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

I think the puff matchup catches Marth players offguard, because you have to play extremely patient, which is not something most of us are used to.

Matchups pretty even though

 

[KrIsP!]

Agreed

Puff is slow but if you slow down your pace and space well she can't get in very easily. I'm actually more sacred of Marth's than anyone else in the top seven other than maybe a good fox.

 

[Strong Badam]

I have no fear

 

[Svetsunov]

Honestly the puff matchup seems about even from what i've watched...

 

[leffen]

Is it just me, or is Marth kinda OPish with this ruleset (as he gains an INCREDIBLE amount from this one compared to previous ones).

The fact that you can lose game 1 (lets say FoD), CP FD (win), win on their counterpick [say PS](he really doesn't have a bad neutral stage vs spacies) and then you can counterpick FD again o_o

Hao can you say that he is worse than Peach Q_Q

 

[KrIsP!]

Underrepresented + world's best player bias? I seriously think he's tied with puff on this tier list if not higher, but I wouldn't put him higher than sheik so that would mean puff is fifth and I think a lot of people disagree. People don't seem to realise that the cp stages can really mess with her and her MUs aren't the greatest against mid tiers, she beats sheik in the MU but I don't think she deserves to be higher than her. Still top tier IMO anyways though.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I'm not sure. I don't see Puff losing to Marth. Her punish game on him is ridiculous, and she's resistant to combos, so he basically has to poke at her and hope for tippers (similar to Peach, but Puff's bair makes it a lot easier to get in, I guess, and one hit/read can snowball pretty easily into an edge guard, or a rest. I don't how Marth could beat Puff.

 

[leffen]

Honestly, tier lists should just be:
(in no order)

Fox/Falco/Marth/Sheik/Puff - Can with no doubt deal with every matchup just fine. Every character has their own strengths

Peach/CF/Ics/Doc/Samus/Luigi/Pikachu/Ganondorf/Yoshi/Mario - May need a counterpick charater versus certain matchups, handles majority of the top tier matchups fine but to mostly to a disadvantage.

Link/YL/Mewtwo/DonkeyKong - Is viable in a few of the top tiers matchups, strong as a suprise counterpick
rest: Unviable - you're better off using other characters



@Shroudedone: Her punishes aren't THAT good on marth most of the time. Marth can also combo+juggle her much better than people realize, and she dies super early. Anyway, you don't play marth and I hate to have these kind of discussions with inexperienced people.

 

[JPOBS]

At the very least I think Peach and Falcon should be in the tier with "Can with no doubt deal with every matchup just fine. Every character has their own strengths
"
From a practical standpoint, Peach and Falcon certainly can handle every matchup in the top tiers.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I can agree, for Peach, but I think spacies just destroy Falcon (I don't want to sound like a Falcon main, but....ehhh...I wouldn't say "just fine").

 

[Armada]

Leffen: Yeah I think that rule that allow you to pick same stage twice (if you win on your opponents CP between those matches) is wrong and should be removed. You should only be ablle to counterpick same stage twice if you lose on it.


Marth is really good and he is really underrated because lack of good results but that dosen't mean he is a bad char. Just counting MUs I wanna say Marth is better then Sheik but Sheik still feels like a better char with more good options in generall. Marth is 5th on my list but he is way closer the chars above him then many people like to think.

Something that really makes me sad about Marth players (most chars/players tbh) is that they chose weird things to do when they have gurantee stuff that is 10 times better. Marth players on FD is a great example...

 

[Stevo]

Honestly, tier lists should just be:
(in no order)

Fox/Falco/Marth/Sheik/Puff - Can with no doubt deal with every matchup just fine. Every character has their own strengths

Peach/CF/Ics/Doc/Samus/Luigi/Pikachu/Ganondorf/Yoshi/Mario - May need a counterpick charater versus certain matchups, handles majority of the top tier matchups fine but to mostly to a disadvantage.

Link/YL/Mewtwo/DonkeyKong - Is viable in a few of the top tiers matchups, strong as a suprise counterpick
rest: Unviable - you're better off using other characters



@Shroudedone: Her punishes aren't THAT good on marth most of the time. Marth can also combo+juggle her much better than people realize, and she dies super early. Anyway, you don't play marth and I hate to have these kind of discussions with inexperienced people.

I completely agree with there being 4 tiers. I'm glad people with more credibility and pull are starting to post about it.

 

[Strong Badam]

Leffen? Credibility?

 

[Stevo]

Yeah I was going to edit in a comment about that. Something something flopmericans something something...

but I decided to just leave it.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I'd really like to see a good Luigi. He seems like he has a lot of potential, but there's no one playing him at the same level as the other mains in that tier (e.g. Kage).

Leffen, please change your fourth tier to Unviable/Kirby. It's much more accurate.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I'd really like to see a good Luigi. He seems like he has a lot of potential, but there's no one playing him at the same level as the other mains in that tier (e.g. Kage).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vdMp_9aySI

 

[twizzlerj]

from what i read so far wow marth really sucks

 

[Mewgia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vdMp_9aySI

lol?


yeah he can wavedash constantly but he makes a lot of baby mistakes...and doesn't combo much...and loses pretty hard because of it. are there no better luigis?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Ur complaining because he isn't comboing jigglypuff? Really?

Also, going even with a top 5 player in the world means nothing? How about going even with the best falcon in the world?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy3raKQCptk

 

[Dr Peepee]

Is it just me, or is Marth kinda OPish with this ruleset (as he gains an INCREDIBLE amount from this one compared to previous ones).

The fact that you can lose game 1 (lets say FoD), CP FD (win), win on their counterpick [say PS](he really doesn't have a bad neutral stage vs spacies) and then you can counterpick FD again o_o

Hao can you say that he is worse than Peach Q_Q

Love your Marth posts

I agree about the ruleset and also told/tell people that.

Post those powershielding Marth videos when they go up please. =)

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

from what i read so far wow marth really sucks

i know, right!? going just about even with all the top tiers and beating everyone below must suck! ugh i play a horrible character QQ

 

[ShroudedOne]

Falcon mains are stepping their game up. Time for Marth mains to do the same, in my opinion.

 

[Divinokage]

I'll do it for them if I have to.

 

[twizzlerj]

i know, right!? going just about even with all the top tiers and beating everyone below must suck! ugh i play a horrible character QQ

true but i still think he sucks but since he is my second best might as well resume playing him

 

[Warhawk]

I'll do it for them if I have to.

I thought you used Falco in addition to Ganon, now Marth too? lol

 

[RaphaelRobo]

It's only a matter of time before he starts using Kirby.

 

[Geenareeno]

Good Luigi. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QXysE-zRGM

Speaking of Luigi, he can combo spacies but he gets the **** as soon as shines and lasers come out. I think he has a decent mu with Jiggs. He gets ***** by Marth and Sheik, looks like he can do decently against Falcon but SS doesn't know the mu. Hm.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Peach kind of gives him the business, too. But I'm not entirely sure. It's a weird MU. And I'd think Falcon just ***** Luigi in every way possible.

 

[Svetsunov]

Good Luigi. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QXysE-zRGM

Speaking of Luigi, he can combo spacies but he gets the **** as soon as shines and lasers come out. I think he has a decent mu with Jiggs. He gets ***** by Marth and Sheik, looks like he can do decently against Falcon but SS doesn't know the mu. Hm.

Yeah i'm about 90% sure thats just SS not knowing the MU. I'm going to look for some more Luigi Matches tonight and i'll post what I find.

And I can see him doing fine vs Puff.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Yeah i'm about 90% sure thats just SS not knowing the MU. I'm going to look for some more Luigi Matches tonight and i'll post what I find.

And I can see him doing fine vs Puff.

Theres more than one set of SS playing Eddy Mexico.
I'm sure a top level falcon like SS would know the luigi matchup

 

[Svetsunov]

Theres more than one set of SS playing Eddy Mexico.
I'm sure a top level falcon like SS would know the luigi matchup

I watched another set and some friendlies i found. SS did way better and won some of these but dang, That is one impressive luigi.

 

[Mew2King]

I have problems with a lot of the decisions m2k made that game

at winterfest 2009 I actually beat hbox in crews with marth, (we both had 3-4 stocks and I had a good advantage) for w/e that's worth. I don't like the FoD match I think i played ****ty in it and he played better. I think it's kinda even I just rarely ever fight puffs so i lack experience in the MU a lot (same with falco but i have less experience vs puff than falco by comparison even tho they are my 2 hardest MUs)

that tourney still owes me 1,500 dollars =/

armada, i know how to do marth vs fox on FD just fine (unless you meant other marths which I'd agree with). I do understand about doing weak Uairs to tipper though, but I think there are some better options and it depends the situation (such as Fair to down tilt and then edge guard their recovery as they either have to forward B to the ledge or up B from below/even to the stage). I think sheik is better than marth vs most characters which is why I usually use her now (which you agreed i should). Marth's a lot worse when FD is gone and high %s where you can't combo to a kill are removed (very common on dreamland).

only marth mains know how bad he is on non neutrals. Regardless of how good a players marth is, on a non neutral there is almost no reason to play him imo.

 

[Armada]

Yeah you are the only Marth nowadays that plays Marth on FD almost perfect. I think one of the reasons we disagree in those kind of subjects is cause you are more of a edgeguard player in those situations while Im trying to give 80-90% at least before a tipper. I also think I have more "rules" when Im doing stuuff with Marth on FD for example and that's why some of the decession you make could be a bit better.

But yeah the fair-d-tilt thing is really good cause you can from that cover every option in a easy way. Yeah I agree you should focus way more on your sheik and I still think you should.