kailo34ce
Smash Lord
yeah but even in that point,even saying too good etc, i still didnt overlook it, ur just mean is all
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Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List
- Thread starter Slhoka
- Start date
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
in the end all i meant was i believe wobbles is too good compared to the rest of the ice climbers, as is armada two steps ahead of the rest of the peach
King5280
Smash Journeyman
lol too good
:/
1) IC v Peach is manageable. But their windows for punishment and their zones of control are small and require a lot of precision to maintain. If I'm not on my game, Peaches of ANY level give me trouble. People can pick up Peach for the first time and be hard for me to fight.
The matchup is difficult, but not in the "70-30 Peach's favor" kind of way, more of a "really tough learning curve" kind of way. I'd pin it at 55-45, MAYBE 60-40 but when I actually hit my punishes and space well it really doesn't feel bad at all.
2) ICs v Jiggs is the same way, but tilted towards ICs. If ICs camp with blizzard walls then Puff has a heck of a time finding a solid angle of approach. Most Puffs can't get the hard punishes they need to shift the stock momentum after a single hit. Darc is the Puff that's given me the most difficulty that I can beat, and the rest I just kind of whoop on without thinking about it, because I keep up my walls and I abuse WD OoS to punish landings. Then you fight HBox, who has the spacing to work around the blizzard and the patience to keep himself safe while he looks for his own opportunities. When he gets a good hit, he turns the stock around instantly. If you haven't played HBox and you're trying to dissect Puff V ICs, you are missing a key element to understand the matchup: at her optimal spacing, Puff is insanely hard for ICs to actually touch, and her punishment game is much more potent. Her level counterpick selection is also more varied and harder to combat.
Also if ICs get the percent lead all it means is they don't have to chase Puff around the level. It's kind of autowin for Puff if she gets a lead and wants to be a jerk. So yeah if the matchup actually is in ICs favor--and it's centered around them having a flimsy camping wall--I doubt it's by much.
1) IC v Peach is manageable. But their windows for punishment and their zones of control are small and require a lot of precision to maintain. If I'm not on my game, Peaches of ANY level give me trouble. People can pick up Peach for the first time and be hard for me to fight.
The matchup is difficult, but not in the "70-30 Peach's favor" kind of way, more of a "really tough learning curve" kind of way. I'd pin it at 55-45, MAYBE 60-40 but when I actually hit my punishes and space well it really doesn't feel bad at all.
2) ICs v Jiggs is the same way, but tilted towards ICs. If ICs camp with blizzard walls then Puff has a heck of a time finding a solid angle of approach. Most Puffs can't get the hard punishes they need to shift the stock momentum after a single hit. Darc is the Puff that's given me the most difficulty that I can beat, and the rest I just kind of whoop on without thinking about it, because I keep up my walls and I abuse WD OoS to punish landings. Then you fight HBox, who has the spacing to work around the blizzard and the patience to keep himself safe while he looks for his own opportunities. When he gets a good hit, he turns the stock around instantly. If you haven't played HBox and you're trying to dissect Puff V ICs, you are missing a key element to understand the matchup: at her optimal spacing, Puff is insanely hard for ICs to actually touch, and her punishment game is much more potent. Her level counterpick selection is also more varied and harder to combat.
Also if ICs get the percent lead all it means is they don't have to chase Puff around the level. It's kind of autowin for Puff if she gets a lead and wants to be a jerk. So yeah if the matchup actually is in ICs favor--and it's centered around them having a flimsy camping wall--I doubt it's by much.
Bing
Smash Master
I love it when Wobbles posts... I feel it must be read no matter how relevant it is to me. Just Like KirbyKaze and Catuar. Guys are too smart 
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
ur2gud rgumnt iz invalidz lulz
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Erection deflection
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
KK when you gonna analyze my sheik boi? (sir)
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
You're probably bad at combos and spacing fair.
Link I guess? I have free time right now. Or we can do this by AIM.
Link I guess? I have free time right now. Or we can do this by AIM.
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
"all you sheiks look alike"
ya go aim "kalokross" thanks
ya go aim "kalokross" thanks
hmm...I was always under the impression that you hated the MU, even in your prime.(Cause of Mango) Also is it ture that you 3 stocked or JV 4 stocked hbox with marth on FD back in 09 or something in a crew battle?
ONe last thing...what do you think of the marth/doc mu?
Wake
Smash Master
haha wow. You're a psychic.
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
he changed my lyfe
Mew2King
King of the Mews
no LOL, I just won some crew battle in winterfest 2 years ago (where we never got paid) marth vs puff pretty solidly but not by a lot. Just 1 game we had.
marth beats doc if he's playing perfect. Doc can **** marth when marth makes mistakes, but Marth definitely wins if he's playing good.
Aber
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2010
- Messages
- 276
Mew2King
King of the Mews
or block it <_< and punish the lag
Mew2King
King of the Mews
idk, last time i played hax in crews with marth i almost 4 stocked him but i think he was playing really badly and i was also playing perfect, but my marth can beat every falcon probably but I also think my falcon can beat every marth so idk <.<. I used to think falcon ***** marth but if I can beat everyone in both reverse MUs both ways I am really unsure what it truely is
S l o X
Smash Champion
55-45 (marth) or 50-50.
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
it means ur really good at super smash brothers melee
john!
Smash Hero
you're telling me jigglypuff can jump to avoid the utilt and punish it before marth can move again? really?
and i don't think she can punish a spaced ftilt OOS, but use dtilt if you prefer.
it seems like the only reason marth can lose to jigglypuff is because puff messes up their spacing
Aber
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2010
- Messages
- 276
Dude I'm not even going to answer this........
You're OP made it out to seem as though utilt and ftilt were an end all answer to anything jigglypuff can do. Meanwhile, multiple people refuted this, including myself, by offering simple solutions to this simplistic view
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
CloneHat
Smash Champion
Fox's usmash is faster and trades with all Puff's aerials, and it doesn't work either.
Riddlebox
Smash Journeyman
KirbyKaze is commentating melee between riddlebox and weon-x
come listen to him talk about MUs and ****
he's taking questions too
nurgle
www.twitchtv.com/escriddlebox
come listen to him talk about MUs and ****
he's taking questions too
nurgle
www.twitchtv.com/escriddlebox
Fletch
Smash Master
What's everyone's thoughts on Samus's position? I really think she could be higher with the prevalence of spacies, as she seems to do well against Falco and holds her own against Fox. Seems like her main problem matchup is Marth, who really has been falling quite a bit in popularity. Plup and Duck seemed to play pretty well at Apex; just not sure if there needs to be a new Hugs/IHSB combination of Samus play to bring her to the next level. Also, how does she do against Puff? I have no idea.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Her main problem is Sheik.
Fletch
Smash Master
So she has disadvantage Sheik and Marth, probably slight dis to Fox, evenish to Falco, and I'm not sure of her other matchups. That doesn't seem that bad; almost comparable to Falcons matchups. I don't know why she gets so much hate. I don't play her though, just looking for input.
Inty17
Smash Journeyman
Doesn't Samus get wrecked by Peach? And I'm pretty sure her matchup with Falcon is at least 65-35 Falcon. She's not a good character, guys.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Samus doesn't get wrecked by Peach, lol. It's like, 55 or 58 in Peach's favor. I dunno. She wins, though.
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
depends on the peach u talk to. some think its kinda free others not so much, but everyone agrees peach has the advantage
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
think vanz said at one point it was an 80-20
for peach
for peach
Wake
Smash Master
I dunno if I would say, "get wrecked" by Peach, but I think it's in Peach's favor for sure.
I have cleary not enough experience against Samus but Peach has the advantage. It's hard to say how much but I would guess it is between 55-45 and 60-40 in Peachs favor. But I think one of the better Samus players maight have more experience and a better overall view of the MU.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Samus gets beaten by everyone in S + A tier.
This.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
samus has 2 main counterattack moves
Wavedash back -> something
and up B OOS (Peach can Fair -> Grab before Samus can do this I believe, and Fair -> Down smash way before Samus can do this), but this is effective vs Spacies.
the best thing spacies can do vs samus most of the time is Aerial into light shield, then wait for the up B because that is usually what Samus's do and it easily counterattacks space animals.
Wavedash back -> something
and up B OOS (Peach can Fair -> Grab before Samus can do this I believe, and Fair -> Down smash way before Samus can do this), but this is effective vs Spacies.
the best thing spacies can do vs samus most of the time is Aerial into light shield, then wait for the up B because that is usually what Samus's do and it easily counterattacks space animals.
Fortress | Sveet
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peach cannot grab or dsmash before up OoS starts. Samus is invincible until after the hitbox starts, so as long as she gets 2 frames (1 jump, next frame invincible) she will beat any unspaced pressure. Peach's fair does have frame advantage on shield, but even perfect fair is only around +4. Most of the time peach is spacing with the fair, not trying to do the lowest possible so generally its about even on block.