Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[KirbyKaze]

I attack them.

edit: Eventually.

edit 2: I also have a lot of bad habits in shield against Falcon. And it gets me hit by heavy moves and other shenanigans.

 

[BSeeD]

Always thought Falcon MU as one of the rare MU where u have to be more aggressive than defensive with Sheik.
At least that's the way I play it the best, but I'm not playing Falcon mains like Hax or S2J so I guess it's not the same ^^

 

[KirbyKaze]

Cactuar told me some stuff about watching movement better so I think I can probably engage the dash camp more effectively.

I dunno. I just wanna dash attack Falcos.

The only thing that saves me in the MU at all is that I'm Sheik and I'm good at making people explode when I hit them (partially coincides with being Sheik). I'm pretty mediocre at most other aspects of that MU (and many other MUs).

 

[BSeeD]

I had the opportunity to watch some games of u vs falcon and I must say u have hard times getting in.

I guess it's good for the Falcons coz once ur in u don't let go ^^

And I get the dash attack thing, coz one of the first thing I had to do to work on that MU is refrain my need to dash attack.
Donno where it comes from though -_-

 

[Lukahn]

Donno where it comes from though -_-

LOLOLOL I wanna hit that ****.

Guess that's it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Will Leffen's use of Yoshi in Europe have any impact on this tier list, despite it being NTSC?

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Considering how much work Mango/Hbox and Axe had to put in for their characters to be raised i doubt it ATM

 

[CloneHat]

About Falcon, I always find Sheik can get away with bad approaches by covering herself with big, fast hitboxes, and her combos and kill setups require a lot less precision. Falcon can punish some of Sheik's arsenal, but it's not easy. I'd say it gets less skewed as the players get better, judging by Hax's countless disassemblies of Sheiks.

 

[Merkuri]

Anyone else feeling like Peach is better than Marth?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Not a single person in the entire world, sorry.

 

[SamusPoop]

I think with the stage list shrink that the like of marth, peach, and samus fair against space animals better. Like when this list was made wasn't kj64 still used along with some other stage?

 

[ShroudedOne]

The main thing, I think, as to why Peach should not be considered better than Marth, is that Marth does better against Fox than she does. I think space animals are that important. He also has better MUs against Puff and Falcon. And he doesn't have a fairly huge range problem. So, no.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Doesn't peach do better vs falco than marth? And sheik?

 

[ShroudedOne]

I will say that she does better against Sheik by a small margin. But while I know that Falco/Peach is even, I'm not sure if Marth does better or worse. If I say either, someone will disagree. So I'm leaving that alone.

 

[SamusPoop]

If You say something that you personaly think of course someone will disargee

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think Marth Sheik and Peach Sheik are about the same level of difficulty for Sheik. I think if the Marth plays like Ice then Marth is probably better vs Falco than Peach is (at worst they're about the same), and Marth is certainly better vs Fox.

 

[Wake]

Marth is better vs Fox. I think they have an equally hard time with Sheik. Peach miiight to better against Falco, I dunno. I think they're pretty similar in terms of MUs with the other top and high tiers. What do Marth mains think of the Puff MU?

 

[john!]

I will say that she does better against Sheik by a small margin. But while I know that Falco/Peach is even, I'm not sure if Marth does better or worse. If I say either, someone will disagree. So I'm leaving that alone.

these are basically my thoughts exactly.

the only matchups peach does better than marth are the sheik and ice climbers matchups

maybe the falco matchup, but i hate fighting falco so i won't comment lol

 

[Blistering Speed]

Marth is definitely better than Peach. Let's not get silly.

 

[Varist]

am i the only one who noticed

and Tero, who laid the fundations for this project and made his best to encourage the matchup debates.

in the OP

 

[Merkuri]

Marth is better vs Fox. I think they have an equally hard time with Sheik. Peach miiight to better against Falco, I dunno. I think they're pretty similar in terms of MUs with the other top and high tiers. What do Marth mains think of the Puff MU?

Well Peach vs Falco is even. The consensus amongst Marth players seems to be that Falco is Martn's worst matchup along with Shiek.

After more thought I think I'll concede that Marth is still the better character, it's just that he is a lot more difficult to be efficient with at the top level. Looking at Apex results, even tough there were a lot more Marth players in the bracket, the Peach players placed higher than all of them.

 

[KingofCereal]

**** who even cares anymore? pika is a character no one cares about but could always be ****. dk is good but his place makes sense. yl and fuggin' mario are great characters that shizzllit son don't get credit. metagame says puff fox falco, it makes sense. shnizzlimpiss it's been over ten years i think tiers not going toomany new places. all good y'all all good.

 

[SamusPoop]

but can mario kill without some crazy set-up? can he even edge guard as good as dr? the combos aren't worth noting seeing how most of the cast is floaty and offen disargees anyways.

 

[oliman]

in my humble opinion, marth beats falco in high level play from what i've heard and observed, but down here its in falco's favor.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

did u get those backwards?

 

[ShroudedOne]

That's what I was wondering. I thought Marth owned at lower levels, but that Falco bodied him back at higher levels. I mean, oliman, look at how you almost lost to my Marth.

 

[Wake]

Yeah I agree with Sveet.

 

[Kal]

I think Marth vs. Falco is pretty even at high-level play, though I definitely agree that Marth tears Falco up at low-level play, simply because of the huge margin for error present in low-level Falco play. I think you can argue for a slight advantage for either character, and that the current metagame reflects a slight advantage for Falco.

Personally, I would give the advantage to Marth, but there's an obvious bias since I main Marth.

 

[adechrist]

Peach is better than Marth. At Apex 2012, about an equal number of Marth players started in the bracket as Peach players. But in the top 16, there were 3 Peaches and no Marths. A peach main won APEX. How can people still say Marth is better? She has one bad matchup, Puff. The last time I saw a Marth player beat a top puff was when Ken played Mango 5 years ago.

 

[Merkuri]

At Apex 2012, about an equal number of Marth players started in the bracket as Peach players. But in the top 16, there were 3 Peaches and no Marths. A peach main won APEX. How can people still say Marth is better? She has one bad matchup, Puff. The last time I saw a Marth player beat a top puff was when Ken played Mango 5 years ago.

In recent memory Peach has been doing waaaaaaaaaay better than marths in tournament. People say Marth is better because of his matchup spread. Given tourney results I think the most logical conclusion is that Marth perceived matchup spread is wrong(he loses more matches than people realize), but I'm not sure people are ready to accept that just yet.

I'm convinced Marth vs Peach is even now.

 

[adechrist]

I agree with everything you just said

 

[Zoler]

Marth has a better matchup vs puff and fox. I'm a little unsure about falcon but leaning towards marth has a better one.

Falco is arguable.

 

[Shore Top]

The Marth vs Peach matchup is still in marth's favor by a decent amount. Armada is just freakishly good against marths, but most peaches, even high level peaches, would say marth has an advantage.

 

[Wake]

Peach is better than Marth. At Apex 2012, about an equal number of Marth players started in the bracket as Peach players. But in the top 16, there were 3 Peaches and no Marths. A peach main won APEX. How can people still say Marth is better? She has one bad matchup, Puff. The last time I saw a Marth player beat a top puff was when Ken played Mango 5 years ago.

"She has one bad matchup" hahaha Fox, Puff, Sheik, some would argue Falcon too though I don't agree with that one.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I think marth beats peach still

 

[ShroudedOne]

You guys should be careful when using tournament placings to determine how good a character is. Looking at the past nationals, Armada has really been the only Peach placing really high (top ten). So is Peach better than Marth, or is Armada just quite good?

She definitely does worse against Fox and Puff, at least.

Also, LOL @ Peach/Marth being even. Honestly, she can only compete with Marth, and keep it close, because of turnips (which have predictable trajectories, half a second of pull lag, and generally slow air movement), and her rather large profit from getting a hit/grab. Marth's range, and ability to keep her out otherwise, keeps it in his favor.

 

[Wake]

Yeah. I think the MU is in his favor, just not a "bad" MU I guess. I think she loses to Fox, Puff, Sheik, Marth, and poossiibblly Falcon.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Yeah, Marth isn't bad.

Also, WAKE, OMG. She definitely loses to Falcon. You think edge guarding would keep it even, but he's soooo good on ground it's silly. Also, d-throw > react to any DI > knee is very dumb.

I'd like to be proven wrong, though.

 

[Wake]

ha ok well I'll give you that Peach might lose to Falcon, but I would say that if it is in his favor, it isn't by much so I wouldn't consider it a "bad" MU in the sense that she gets decisively owned in.

 

[Zoler]

lol at being unsure against falcon > peach, maybe her second worst matchup, definitely 3rd worst at least XD