Official Marth Counterpicking Discussion *Currently Discussing Pokemon Trainer*

[BacklashMarth]

Hmm...FD ban any1? Needle camping and sheik playing her aerial juggle/**** game gets old fast. Sheik has a decent recovery if you ignore startup and she has a tether so i cant think of any stage that severely hurts her recovery. Good marth stages are usually good sheik stages as well.

 

[takeurlife2]

actually, i CP final D against sheik. It's relatively easy to gimp her on it, what with the gimpy side that stage spikes well. Also, you cant get stuck on a platform here and take silly damage. If sheik had more priority on the ground then it wouldn't be so bad for her, but since she has little (at least compared to DB and fair) she gets wrecked by Marf on this stage.

Basically, sheik is good at bumrushing grabs and random fast air attacks. On FD, her options get limited.

Id say ban yoshi's against her though. Bair gimps marth hard off that ledge and her recovery is much better on those sides.

 

[Remzi]

Eh, I personally think needles are a bit overrated. I wouldn't ban FD but I wouldn't go so far as to CP it either. It's not that Sheik is so hard to play against on a flat stage, but Marth simply gains a much bigger boost from a stage like BF IMO. This seems to me like one of those matchups that really isn't very stage dependant.

I guess I'd go BF because it's my most comfortable stage and Marth just ***** there in general.

 

[rathy Aro]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226389&page=3

There's your in depth sheik vs. marth discussion. Its 60-40 to 70-30 marth's favor.

*Actually reads name of thread* I think we agreed that marth and sheik do well on the same stages, but marth generally does better on those stages than sheik. So you can cp whatever you like.

 

[Remzi]

So far I have

CP: BF (?)

Ban: Yoshis (?), Luigis (?)


Lmao, basically no clue on this one. Help me out someone. Ankoku maybe?

 

[Steel]

its all personal preference tbh

they do well on basically the same exact stages

 

[saviorslegacy]

IMO... they both have the same taste for stages. I doubt that there is a counter pick stage that Marth can use against Sheik.

 

[stealth3654]

its all personal preference tbh

they do well on basically the same exact stages

Quoted for truth.

 

[Remzi]

Lol, kinda what I was thinking.

Idk what to put for the OP now though.

I guess ban YI?

As for CP, just whatever you are comfortable with.

 

[Zankoku]

Stage Matchup Summary:
Anything you can do
I can do better

I can do anything
Better than you

 

[BacklashMarth]

Who doeth sing the verse Ankoku? I would assume its sheik cuz its a girl singing the initial chorus, but in this case ppl would argue who is more womanly and/or who really does everything better.

 

[Zankoku]

It makes you wonder, doesn't it? ^_^

Just like new people wonder about my gender. ._.

 

[Shadow 111]

the marth boards are so sophisticated and uses proper etiquette. ^_^

 

[Crossjeremiah]

never cp bf against a sheik... too many platforms. rainbow cruise is too good for sheik too. i would cp something like lylat. or pokemon stadium... dont cp fd against sheik they have easier way to ftilt to usmash there.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

sheik does really well on marths best stage bf cuz of the platforms

and she has a lot of room to run away from you on fd, id cp smashville or stadium


she ***** the yoshi platform as well, marth sucks above people bad, as you know

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

same goes for sheik though her dair isn't any good.

 

[KRiMz0N]

i like japes for sheik, since i don't know whether or not it's a good stage for her...unorthodox at least

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

same goes for sheik though her dair isn't any good.

covering under applies to under/behind as well, her bair is good for that


falling with bair as marth is.... pretty fail

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

covering under applies to under/behind as well, her bair is good for that


falling with bair as marth is.... pretty fail

Ah I never knew that. Sheik does have a pretty good bair. Marth's bair should be like that.

 

[Shaya]

Against Sheik?

CP Frigate.

 

[Remzi]

I just updated the second you posted that, lol. Why Frigate? Isn't it equally bad
for both characters?

EDIT: G&W now

 

[Shaya]

Sheik's horizontal recovery relies mostly on the chain (i.e. ledges).

Marth completely zones himself safely under the platform in the second part, and can apply pressure safely to a Sheik who has taken the same spot.

 

[BacklashMarth]

Isnt the g&w matchup good enough to where we can **** them even on their cp lol? Seems like the neutrals are once again the way to go (maybe not BF if the player tries to juggle like a mofo) his recovery is great on any stage so its pointless to frigate him. I would ban norfair on him tho just because they seem to like that stage.

 

[Shaya]

I think Marth does fine against G&W on Norfair and according to Hylian, it's not even "safe" to CP Rainbow Cruise (I'm not sure if he still thinks that though).

Whilst both Norfair and Rainbow Cruise give extreme amounts of 'oompf' to bucket breaking horizontal attacks, Marth does fine on these stages KOing G&W off the top.

Final D is probably one of the worser stages due to the lack of platforms, if, for some chance you're caught in an uair trap.

 

[Remzi]

I'd have to agree, I don't think RC is a great CP for G&W here.

I take him to BF (but then again, I take EVERYONE to BF) because Marth simply has better platform control and receives a bigger boost to his juggling game from the platforms.

I'd ban Lylat (but then again, I ALWAYS ban Lylat) because the stage tilting and ledges screw you up way more than they do to him. I might ban FD as well because as I said earlier, platforms are better for Marth than they are for G&W.

 

[cutter]

I wouldn't ban Final D against G&W. It's his worst neutral by far.

 

[Remzi]

Ok, so far I have-

CPs: BF

Bans: Lylat, FD (?), Norfair (?)

This is another one that isn't too stage dependent.

 

[Freezewish]

Why would you ban FD? o_O

 

[C.box]

Ban corneria or green greens if they are legal.. maybe halberd?

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Halberd is a great Marth stage, why would you ban it?

 

[Freezewish]

Halberd is a great Marth stage, why would you ban it?

Low ceiling and Gnw can attack with nairs from underneath.

All i can think of off the top of my head.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Halberds blast zones are expansive during certain part of the stage.

This makes both players in longer.

 

[Palpi]

Both characters have the similar vertical kill potential so the low cieling isn't that big of a problem.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Marth can do Uairs from under, and can spike GnW from under the stage.

There are much more effective bans than Halberd.

 

[Remzi]

Sonic. We'll be going faster now because we're done with the good chars for the most part.


An obvious ban is FD I guess. But then again I don't have much Sonic experience.

 

[Pierce7d]

wtf. IF YOU'RE FIGHTING GnW in tourney, ban FRIGATE!

/GnW discussion.

If you're fighting Sonic in tourney, go to Brinstar. If banned, go to Battlefield or Lylat IMO.

 

[Remzi]

lol how the hell did i forget frigate, good call

 

[BacklashMarth]

Truth is, sonic is probably gonna do the same thing no matter where you take him and you can still shut him down all the same from my experience. Sure, if u dont want to deal with an annoying wave of DA->dsmash then banning FD is the way to go. However i find FD gives me more room to breathe and more time to think as i see sonic approaching me with any of his moves. Pivot grabbing him there is childs play and so is jabbing or dtilting him out of a run or spin dash. I think that BF is good because he cant neutral B you without hitting a platform and his dair is usless because he will also hit a platform and lag.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

sonic is so ****ING ANNOYING

OH MY GOD

 

[Freezewish]

sonic is so ****ING ANNOYING

OH MY GOD

Lmao

Also vs Sonic :

Ban: FD

Cp: BF, Brinstar, Lylat(?)