Fatalzyntax
Smash Apprentice
I would pick Rainbow Cruise =D
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Official Marth Counterpicking Discussion *Currently Discussing Pokemon Trainer*
- Thread starter Remzi
- Start date
LuLLo
Smash Ace
This comes from a new Marth player, but I'd counterpick FD and ban BF/Smashville, we have a greater advantage on a flat level, we've got ways of approaching without platforms and Ike's game gets nerfed badly on that stage, plus once he's off the edge, which shouldn't be any trouble, he's dead. It's not really a counter, but as close as it get's imo.
feardragon64
Smash Champion
I wonder if this will be finished by the time Cheeze-Kun 3-stocks M2K....
BacklashMarth
Smash Lord
^Is that before or after EL decides to get back into brawl?
On-topic: I take ike wherever marth does good. W/e advantages ike gets, marth gets them too...unless u are talking about boats
On-topic: I take ike wherever marth does good. W/e advantages ike gets, marth gets them too...unless u are talking about boats
DivineFalchion
Smash Rookie
For Ike I would definitely ban stages with possible hitbox hax, such as weegee's mansion and/or brinstar. Brinstar would be my first ban since that slage is very slippery (as in Ike can slide pretty decently after doing an attack, giving him power and mobility).
Ike really isn't that huge of a problem for Marth so we're not looking for where Marth has the advantage (everywhere against ike) but Where Ike has a disadvantage!
Now for counterpicking, one would need to play against Ike's poor recovery. Look for stages that easily gimp Ike such as Rainbow Cruise, or Japes. Japes possibly because his recovery takes so long to go through he could get Klaptrap-pwned (or if super armor, free 30%). Rainbow cruise is self explanatory. Maybe even Frigate where you can easily punish his recovery on the right side of the first part of the stage.
Final Verdict
Counterpick: 1. Japes, 2. Rainbow Cruise, 3. Frigate
Ban: 1. Brinstar, 2. Weegee's Mansion
Ike really isn't that huge of a problem for Marth so we're not looking for where Marth has the advantage (everywhere against ike) but Where Ike has a disadvantage!
Now for counterpicking, one would need to play against Ike's poor recovery. Look for stages that easily gimp Ike such as Rainbow Cruise, or Japes. Japes possibly because his recovery takes so long to go through he could get Klaptrap-pwned (or if super armor, free 30%). Rainbow cruise is self explanatory. Maybe even Frigate where you can easily punish his recovery on the right side of the first part of the stage.
Final Verdict
Counterpick: 1. Japes, 2. Rainbow Cruise, 3. Frigate
Ban: 1. Brinstar, 2. Weegee's Mansion
Sephiroths Masamune
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Ike is strong and all but he is easily gimped. just choose some where like Frigate and knock him off the edge. If he dose the quick draw just get in the way and he will enter helpless state and boom its over, and if he is going for a aether its easily predicted just spike or foot stool him.
(now if you do a closer match up please do TL next personally I think he should be at least 55-45 or a 50-50)
(now if you do a closer match up please do TL next personally I think he should be at least 55-45 or a 50-50)
Mackorony101
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2007
- Messages
- 69
I agree that ike is easily gimped, but you cant base a stage pick only on that. You have to focus on what will make the opponent more uncomfortable while making the marth player more comfortable, based on the playing style of that marth.
Battlefield, for example, even though battlefield is one of marths best stages it is also one of Ikes best. If that stage was picked the match would mostly depend on how marth deals with that specific ike. You would want to get the best advantage of a counter pick.
Smashville is a good stage and personally my favorite with marth. It is a good stage for marth, not too big tot too small like goldylox(spelling). there is an also a platform to help with different approaches against Ike. That platform may also be a good thing for ike. It serves as a gimp "get away" if the platform happens to be in that spot past the edge. This stage is more in favor of marth but not by too much.
Lylat cruise is a good stage because it could be used for many gimps. For an ike to hit the ledge with upB they have to have pretty good aiming if they get caught a little bit too far under. A side B recovery could also be punished since the tilt of the edges and small ledge to aim for. The stage is a pretty good marth stage with that being said and I think it would go well in his favor.
There arent too many stages to counterpick or ban against ike because his playing style is somewhat simmilar to marths.
This is my opinion on CPs...
Lylat
Smashville
Japes (do I need to explain)
Rainbow cruise (be careful on this one)
Ban:
Brinstar
Pokemon S2
weegees
Battlefield, for example, even though battlefield is one of marths best stages it is also one of Ikes best. If that stage was picked the match would mostly depend on how marth deals with that specific ike. You would want to get the best advantage of a counter pick.
Smashville is a good stage and personally my favorite with marth. It is a good stage for marth, not too big tot too small like goldylox(spelling). there is an also a platform to help with different approaches against Ike. That platform may also be a good thing for ike. It serves as a gimp "get away" if the platform happens to be in that spot past the edge. This stage is more in favor of marth but not by too much.
Lylat cruise is a good stage because it could be used for many gimps. For an ike to hit the ledge with upB they have to have pretty good aiming if they get caught a little bit too far under. A side B recovery could also be punished since the tilt of the edges and small ledge to aim for. The stage is a pretty good marth stage with that being said and I think it would go well in his favor.
There arent too many stages to counterpick or ban against ike because his playing style is somewhat simmilar to marths.
This is my opinion on CPs...
Lylat
Smashville
Japes (do I need to explain)
Rainbow cruise (be careful on this one)
Ban:
Brinstar
Pokemon S2
weegees
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
Ok, sorry I took so long to update. Toon Link now.
Ok, I know this matchup like the back of my hand so lemme start:
Bans:
FD, projectiles are heavily favored by a flat stage like this.
Halberd, Toon Link can kill vertically very well, so Halberd is a no-no.
Japes, heavily favors campy characters. And TL can recover much better here.
CPs:
BF, Marth has better platform abuse. His best stage overall.
Castle Siege, same reason as Falco. I don't wanna go over it.
Ok, I know this matchup like the back of my hand so lemme start:
Bans:
FD, projectiles are heavily favored by a flat stage like this.
Halberd, Toon Link can kill vertically very well, so Halberd is a no-no.
Japes, heavily favors campy characters. And TL can recover much better here.
CPs:
BF, Marth has better platform abuse. His best stage overall.
Castle Siege, same reason as Falco. I don't wanna go over it.
feardragon64
Smash Champion
Ban crayons.
CP battlefield. Lyat might not be too bad either.
CP battlefield. Lyat might not be too bad either.
Darxmarth23
Smash Champion
Cp battle field.
Platforms are beneficial..... any stages in which you can use them to your favor 110% of the time....
@fear, if anything battlefield is better...I'm not saying you are wrong, but just taking them to lylat might be a shaky desicion considering we are always more comfortable in bf anyways....
Okay, whatever
Platforms are beneficial..... any stages in which you can use them to your favor 110% of the time....
@fear, if anything battlefield is better...I'm not saying you are wrong, but just taking them to lylat might be a shaky desicion considering we are always more comfortable in bf anyways....
Okay, whatever
DivineFalchion
Smash Rookie
I'm usually leaning towards Battlefield in the TL matchup. Quivo is the best TL I've played (dunno if that makes me qualified), but it seems like it has its advantages and disadvantages for both chars. Battlefield has pretty much square blastzones -- It's as easy for you to KO sideways as it is for TL to KO upwards. When TL is on the platforms, you have a strong advantage. He has virtually no moves to attack you with except for bombs, which I believe go through platforms. When you're on the platform, expect it to be raining arrows. The small stage promotes less TL camping which is the metagame vs Marth.
But you don't need a stage to help you close the space on TL. You can do this rather easily on any stage... except maybe FD. You want a stage that directly screws with his projectile aiming. I'm talkin... Castle Siege (statue guards, tilting stage, uneven stage), Distant Planet (depends on how you play it... stay on the sloped part of the stage and camp under the leaf if necessary. It's easier for TL to recover here but it's more difficult for him to rack up damage with so much crap in his way.), Lylat Cruise (tilting)
Stages to Ban definitely are Final Destination, Japes (he will camp the hell out of you), and Yoshi's Island (Basically FD but harder for you to stage control with that annoying platform in the way).
Stages to Counterpick: Battlefield, Lylat Cruise (not so much), Castle Siege, Distant Planet (how many people know how to play on distant planet anyway rofl)
But you don't need a stage to help you close the space on TL. You can do this rather easily on any stage... except maybe FD. You want a stage that directly screws with his projectile aiming. I'm talkin... Castle Siege (statue guards, tilting stage, uneven stage), Distant Planet (depends on how you play it... stay on the sloped part of the stage and camp under the leaf if necessary. It's easier for TL to recover here but it's more difficult for him to rack up damage with so much crap in his way.), Lylat Cruise (tilting)
Stages to Ban definitely are Final Destination, Japes (he will camp the hell out of you), and Yoshi's Island (Basically FD but harder for you to stage control with that annoying platform in the way).
Stages to Counterpick: Battlefield, Lylat Cruise (not so much), Castle Siege, Distant Planet (how many people know how to play on distant planet anyway rofl)
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
If u change the thread name I might contribute lolol.
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
Aww come on, be proud of your character 
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
I do tend to do well on YI vs TL. Not sure about Lylat though, I don't think it benefits either player really.
Also, I didn't know TL wanted Marth at RC, can you explain?
Also, I didn't know TL wanted Marth at RC, can you explain?
clowsui
Smash Legend
keep this discussion open until tuesday
i'm playing q q pew pew (aka quivo) on monday
i'm playing q q pew pew (aka quivo) on monday
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
Well we just did TL so it's only fitting
And sorry Clowsui, I don't wanna hold it up that long
Link now.
And sorry Clowsui, I don't wanna hold it up that long
Link now.
C.box
Smash Journeyman
OMG BAN NORFAIR ON LINK.
HE IS HIGH TIER ON NORFAIR NO ****** JOKE.
Beyond that I like to cp castle siege on link ._. The first stage of it is really small and doesn't give him much room to camp.
The second stage the statues block projectiles until they are destroyed.
And the 3rd stage is like a smallish fd.
HE IS HIGH TIER ON NORFAIR NO ****** JOKE.
Beyond that I like to cp castle siege on link ._. The first stage of it is really small and doesn't give him much room to camp.
The second stage the statues block projectiles until they are destroyed.
And the 3rd stage is like a smallish fd.
DivineFalchion
Smash Rookie
Counterpick: Jape **** (clawshot latches onto ledges instead of attacking you?) , Castle Siege, Battlefield, Lylat, Delfino (lots of d-tilt wallies that he can't do to you, plus easy edge guarding and no stage spike if you miss)
Ban: Norfair (clawshot hax), FD, YI
Link's recovery sucks, he'll do just as horribly recovering on any stage, you just want to gimp his projectile camping.
Ban: Norfair (clawshot hax), FD, YI
Link's recovery sucks, he'll do just as horribly recovering on any stage, you just want to gimp his projectile camping.
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
Eh, in general Norfair is Link's best stage but marth can handle him there pretty well. Still, it does aid his recovery so getting rid of it isn't a bad idea.
Japes, nah. It promotes camping and Link can recover there better than you can. Cping that is a bad idea.
CP: BF, RC, Lylat
Ban: SV, Norfair, FD
Japes, nah. It promotes camping and Link can recover there better than you can. Cping that is a bad idea.
CP: BF, RC, Lylat
Ban: SV, Norfair, FD
Punishment Divine
Smash Champion
FD is a must ban. You get camped supahhhh hard.
Any other stage is fair game. I usually just go BF or maybe PS1 if I'm feeling frisky. There isn't really a stage where you can make this matchup easier, just go with what you're comfortable basically.
Fighting Link is so annoying rofl
Any other stage is fair game. I usually just go BF or maybe PS1 if I'm feeling frisky. There isn't really a stage where you can make this matchup easier, just go with what you're comfortable basically.
Fighting Link is so annoying rofl
BacklashMarth
Smash Lord
Pretty much if u ban FD then you automatically have to go to a stage that marth can control vs link. If you somehow get destroyed the first match then go to Castle Seige and get your gimp on.
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
Link's best neutral in general is SV. That pretty much holds here. Close blastzones are a godsend to level the playing field for his pathetic recovery. Besides that, platform screw with Link's camping game (because he has to full jump a lot, and projectiles often hit the top of platforms) and a generally flat stage good for him. Also, platform benefits him more than Marth.
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
noob, it's not that annoying if know how to ps. Besides, kirin's link ISN'T THAT SPECIAL <3
pretty much anything flat promotes him camping, try not to let him tether recovery at all lol.
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
Peach now.
Ban Japes, I know that much.
I wanna say BF is good but I hear that better Peaches really know how to take advantage of that stage.
Ban Japes, I know that much.
I wanna say BF is good but I hear that better Peaches really know how to take advantage of that stage.
C.box
Smash Journeyman
Peach.
Ban: japes, rc, frigate.
Cp: ?? Anyone got a good cp ?
On a side note I frickin love castle siege now except against d3.
Ban: japes, rc, frigate.
Cp: ?? Anyone got a good cp ?
On a side note I frickin love castle siege now except against d3.
Punishment Divine
Smash Champion
Why Japes? lol RC too?
She's good on BF but it's really preference. Avoid PS1 in this matchup, too IMO.
This is another matchup where you can't really get an edge by CPing imo. Marth will have the advantage on most stages, just ban the bad ones and that's all you can do.
She's good on BF but it's really preference. Avoid PS1 in this matchup, too IMO.
This is another matchup where you can't really get an edge by CPing imo. Marth will have the advantage on most stages, just ban the bad ones and that's all you can do.
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
Japes is an amazing peach stage. Her amazing horizontal recovery means that she has no problem recovering and she isn't hurt by her lack of a strong vertical recovery as she normally is. Basically the opposite of Marth who takes it the worst recovery wise on this stage. (well not the worst, but you know what i mean). Japes also favors camping, Peach has turnips. She also does a good job controlling the center area. Terrible stage against Peach for Marth.
Idk about RC. I don't think that's a good peach stage but I could be wrong.
Idk about RC. I don't think that's a good peach stage but I could be wrong.
Darxmarth23
Smash Champion
At the top of each characters metagame I would say that Marth would win on BF. But if you don't know what to do and when to do it then BF is a bit shaky.
Japes has got to go. Of all of the stages, lateral gameplay is enhanced most on Japes.
Japes has got to go. Of all of the stages, lateral gameplay is enhanced most on Japes.
Snype
Smash Cadet
Jungle Japes is nice for any character that can spike because the water amd even the the little pain in the butt that swims.
takeurlife2
Smash Ace
^^wtf?
dont pick japes against peach..
She's pretty bad on halberd(dies absurdly early vertically)
Your best bet is just to outplay her on neutrals with halberd as a backup
ban japes
CP whatever(halberd if you're desperate)
DivineFalchion
Smash Rookie
Frigate might be a nice choice but then you're revolving the fight around the first part of the stage. I've learned from experience that Peach actually does pretty well on Japes. As takeurlife said, I'd CP Halberd seeing how the ceiling is low (easy for you to kill) but the edges are wider (harder for her to pimp slap horizontally). Battlefield is a nice neutral to go to seeing how it deals with her d-air addiction.
Ban: Japes, Rainbow Cruise
Counterpick: Battlefield, Halberd, Lylat Cruise
Ban: Japes, Rainbow Cruise
Counterpick: Battlefield, Halberd, Lylat Cruise
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
zelda now
CP: BF
Ban: Luigis, Japes
CP: BF
Ban: Luigis, Japes
Punishment Divine
Smash Champion
Get rid of FD, my ****ing God
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Zelda os a serious pain on BF from my experience, but then again I barely have any =P
MEU
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2009
- Messages
- 16
i think a perfect CP against zelda is delfino plaza. Most of the time, it forcers her to wait to sweetspot the ledge (edge-hogging opportunity) or recover in an unsafe way (by landing somewhere on the stage). In that time you can probably get 2 or 3 hits in. Over the course of the match it adds up.
I say ban FD because you if you somehow get hit by her smash attacks there is no way to avoid it, and then you're open for din's fire.
I say ban FD because you if you somehow get hit by her smash attacks there is no way to avoid it, and then you're open for din's fire.
