Official BBR Tier List v7

[DMG]

Falco's IC MU is the only one that really would hold him back on a reasonable tournament level. Even if you assumed that more high level Pika's than ESAM were competing all the time at tourneys and would be present, the amount of IC's that you'd expect (and how good they were) would clearly overshadow that threat.

 

[John12346]

Yo bubba... sorry if I said anything... rash yesterday. I was in a really bad mood, and I didn't mean to take it out on you... sorry v__v;

Anyway, I say Falco deserves any and all problems he may encounter in a tourney setting; the character's a total jerkwad, trufax

 

[Grim Tuesday]

If that is your bad mood, you are pretty much Jesus.

I really like Falco. His CQC game is sexy.

 

[Iota]

Falco is fun to play as imo. Playing against him is stupid as all hell though.

 

[MarioNPinkie]

^ i agree with this statement

 

[Grimmz]

^ I kinda agree

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Falco's IC MU is the only one that really would hold him back on a reasonable tournament level. Even if you assumed that more high level Pika's than ESAM were competing all the time at tourneys and would be present, the amount of IC's that you'd expect (and how good they were) would clearly overshadow that threat.

That said, ICs is (are? my brain hurts) a big problem. I feel as if every top player has an ICs now.

 

[SoulPech]

So let's talk about how Jigglypuff is the worst character in the game.

Nop e

 

[bubbaking]

I just would like to know why anyone would think Falco should be raised on the tier list just because 'secondaries could be used for his bad MUs' or 'he could be used as a secondary for another char's bad MUs' and the player would do better in tournament. The same exact thing could be said of any the characters who are currently above him. Falco's great where he is. Let's talk about how Wario's results are fraudulent or how it's messed up that Ganon ended up in last place when his results were much better than everyone above him.

Yo bubba... sorry if I said anything... rash yesterday. I was in a really bad mood, and I didn't mean to take it out on you... sorry v__v;

Lolz, no prob. We bicker all the time in person anyway. Did Rich say some choice words to you again?

 

[John12346]

Lolz, no prob. We bicker all the time in person anyway. Did Rich say some choice words to you again?

No... just intensely worried about finals, that's all...

 

[Iota]

Uuh, how exactly are Wario's results fraudulent? There are barely any players that use Wario but rely on a secondary constantly to place higher than they should have. >.>

 

[Life]

Meh, you're not the only one who's all high-strung lately.

And ICs are only a problem because the stagelist keeps getting pared down because MK is legal.

I WENT THERE.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Uuh, how exactly are Wario's results fraudulent? There are barely any players that use Wario but rely on a secondary constantly to place higher than they should have. >.>

Wario gets a lot of extra credit in money tallies because players randomly use him as a wildcard when their main doesn't work. He doesn't do very much solo.

 

[John12346]

Actually... Wario only gets a lot of extra credit in money because Reflex exists...

Edit: Unless something happened in the past 4 months that says otherwise?

 

[Iota]

I don't think so. Reflex is basically the only source of Wario's income.

 

[bubbaking]

Fraudulence.....

Uuh, how exactly are Wario's results fraudulent? There are barely any players that use Wario but rely on a secondary constantly to place higher than they should have. >.>

Edit: John, check Skype and spread the news.

 

[Tesh]

I used MK and Sonic to beat people, then I use Wario against people that will definitely beat me so it looks like I main Wario.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

That said, ICs is (are? my brain hurts) a big problem. I feel as if every top player has an ICs now.

The MU is bad, but it's not so horrendously bad that it's restricting. Ask most high-placing Falco players.

And this is coming from a -2 hold-out.

 

[C.J.]

I'll believe it the day a notable IC loses to a Falco in tourney.

 

[Seagull Joe]

From another thread:
is HT honestly (As sad as it is for me to say since I love winning MT tourneys ), but not Top tier. He lacks the ability of having an overwhelming trait that is a necessity to top tier.

Overwhelming traits:
: Cg, arguably the best projectile in the game (Tied with possibly nades) and hard to approach.
: Broken attributes.
: Broken attributes like weight, ability to kill early, and damage output.
: Best shield, a broken camp game, and an incredibely balanced moveset to offset his problems.
: Broken grab.
Broken camp game, stupid damage output, and ability to kill really early.

I personally don't think , , and are top tier in any regard, but if they were then here are the reasons for them:
: Broken chaingrab and thunder (lol).
: Weight, avoidance game, and fart.
: True spacing game.

Does anyone think , , and all belong in the same tier grouping (Top) as the other 6 I listed? Sure they're considered B tier, but there are only 4 HT characters...At what point do we differentiate between High and Top? Surely there are more High tiers then Top tiers. Thoughts?

My opinion for a current list in order (Given the current metagame I believe and deserve their own tier):

Top Tier
SS:
S:
A:

High Tier
B:
C:

Mid Tier
D:
E:
Low Tier
F:
G:
H:

 

[da K.I.D.]

i feel like pika does and the other 2 dont.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

In no order for any of these tiers: I really think SS tier should have just . S should be . A should be , , , . B should be , , , . C should be , , , , .

I agree with this completely

 

[SoulPech]

My opinion for a current list in order (Given the current metagame I believe and deserve their own tier):

Hidden Top Tier
SSS:
Top Tier
SS:
S:
A:

High Tier
B:
C:

Mid Tier
D:
E:
Low Tier
F:
G:
H:

Fixed Joe. You're welcome!

 

[infiniteV115]

I like how ZSS is above Marth and Wario.

 

[Iota]

If ZSS is a better char than Marth/Wario then she's better than Pika too imo. I think pika, ZSS, and Wario are all around the same level.

I really, really disagree with Falco and Diddy being below snake, but I think Snake is horrible.

 

[infiniteV115]

I always want to think Snake is horrible but then I see Ally playing Snake
And just the opposite with Marth I guess.

 

[NickRiddle]

ZSS isn't better than Pikachu or Wario.
Maybe Marth though.

 

[Iota]

Snake is horrible on paper but somehow he shoves it all aside in a real match. Marth is the opposite, where he looks super amazing on paper but tends to do worse at tournies then you'd think.

 

[Delta-cod]

That's because one mistake and Snake ftilts you for 1/5th your stock. >_>

Snake is stupid.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Snake is horrible on paper but somehow he shoves it all aside in a real match. Marth is the opposite, where he looks super amazing on paper but tends to do worse at tournies then you'd think.

Sonic is the same as snake except worse as a character overall.


snake at any point in time is liable to destroy a stock with very simple tactics.

 

[Meru.]

is HT honestly (As sad as it is for me to say since I love winning MT tourneys ), but not Top tier. He lacks the ability of having an overwhelming trait that is a necessity to top tier.

No he's not.

I'm not saying I 100% agree with your list but I can definitely live with pretty much everything said except for you have called and divided your sub-tiers (SS,S,A,B etc.) into tiers (Top, High etc.).

Wolf and his friends are not high tier, they are mid, so move C tier to mid. Ike and his *****es are low tier, so place them in low. Within low tier you can probably make a distiction between the worse and the absolute worst, place those in bottom.

And yes, it makes a huge difference. We tend to find characters that are called high tiers better than when they are called mid tier, regardless of their position relative to the cast. A game with more high tier characters is more balanced than one with more low tier characters. Brawl is not (that) balanced and calling low tier character mid and mid tier characters high creates an illusion of the characters' capabilities whereas we try to make the tier list seem as objective as possible.

That also why the 'borderline-mid-low' tiers in the current tier list are just ********, call them mid, low and bottom respectively. I keep saying this and if I cared more, I would have created a thread about this matter. I may someday.

(This will also allow you to play your mid tier tourneys.)

Sonic is the same as snake except worse as a character overall.

No.

 

[Iota]

I kinda agree with what Kid said about Sonic. Both snake and sonic look horrible on paper but in an actual match they do better than they should. Sonic just does it to a lesser extent.

I don't see Ike being low tier, he tends to do surprisingly well at nationals.

 

[RaptorTEC]

I don't agree with Wolf being high tier xD Nor do I agree with the way the tier list is divided.

 

[Cassio]

Bracket stoppers:

Olimar: Falco
Snake: Pika
Falco: Pika/ICs
Diddy: eh
Marth: eh
Pika: lol
Wario: lol!

 

[Life]

Top Tier
SS:
S:
A:

High Tier
B:
C:

Mid Tier
D:
E:
Low Tier
F:
G:
H:

This is pretty much good as far as MK legal lists go. (ICs are only that good because the stagelist, the stagelist is because MK...)

As a side note, I'm kinda flattered you think Sonic is that good, given your reputation for wrecking us.

 

[Luco]

I personally feel the reason pika is so high is because of success in tournies. That said, I don't believe he should go lower unless he starts doing worse in tournies.

This is coming from seeing the japanese tier list where pika and my main are like two spots apart. <3

The reason I say so is because I suspect the japanese meta is more evolved than ours, HOWEVER it may just be a case of no-one using pika who's successful, whereas we have a few who consistently place well in tournies. Thus why I think pika should stay where he is until something comes along that says otherwise.

That's just my opinion ha.

 

[Iota]

Pika is where he is in Japan because of poor representation. I really, really doubt it's because pika is actually that bad. That said I just realized I disagree with a lot of things on Joe's list..

 

[Luco]

Pika is where he is in Japan because of poor representation. I really, really doubt it's because pika is actually that bad. That said I just realized I disagree with a lot of things on Joe's list..

Yea I suspected that would be the case, thus why I think he should stay where he is for the time being.

Does that mean Lucas is over-repped in japan? :-P

I wonder what happened there to get him so high? I'm overjoyed but kinda cautious. Like... did they find something that helps him escape the CG problem for the most part? I'm so cautious...

 

[SaveMeJebus]

That's because one mistake and Snake ftilts you for 1/5th your stock. >_>

Snake is stupid.

Learn to SDI. Also, Wolf is not high tier. I could see him being below fox, pit and tl

 

[Luco]

For reference:

Japanese Tier list

Is there a better version (characters in pic form, etc etc)? I don't mind using this one, just could've sworn i'd seen one elsewhere. I know there's one in that thread somewhere. Like page 2 or 3 or maybe 4.