Official BBR Tier List v7

[bubbaking]

Yes, I agree with you if the requirements I listed in that quote are indeed your prerequisites for being "good". However, if "good" is being based on tiers and decent MU spreads, then I would extend that definition all the way down to DDD (and maybe TL).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Difference between Dedede and Falco is that Falco holds his own, on his own, much better.

Your definition is as arbitrary as any other though, why does a character need to be good by itself to be good?

 

[bubbaking]

Who said I was comparing DDD to Falco?

And if a character doesn't need to be good by himself to be good, then Ganon is a good character. You can just pair him with MK and win every tournament using that dual core.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Who said that I said that you were comparing DDD to Falco?

And that Ganon/MK thing is stupid because Ganon/MK will be worse than anyone else/MK. So it might be a good combo but it will be relatively bad.

 

[bubbaking]

No it isn't, because any other character you can pair with MK will lose to MK. Every other character gives 0 advantage against MK. Therefore, by the Transitive Property of Equality (remember that? ), MK + any character = MK = MK + Ganon.

 

[C.J.]

No it isn't, because any other character you can pair with MK will lose to MK. Every other character gives 0 advantage against MK. Therefore, by the Transitive Property of Equality (remember that? ), MK + any character = MK = MK + Ganon.

That's.. just not true though.

MK has MUs that other characters preform better than him in. For example, Falco is arguably even/at best +1 for MK. Pika has a better MU than +1 vs Falco. Pika MK is better than Ganon MK

etc

 

[bubbaking]

It doesn't matter. The logic is that a character can be good without being good by himself, so thus, we are making Marvel-style team tier lists. MK/Ganon is better than any dual core that doesn't have MK in it (which is most possible double combinations). Therefore, MK/Ganon is a good team and, by definition, Ganon is a good character.

Spoiler

Hopefully, people can realize that I'm not being serious.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

So back to the more serious point; the tier list should put more weight on how good a character is as a secondary.

 

[allshort17]

lol who underrates TL?

I don't think he's underrated by much, but at least on the tier list I could see him jumping Dedede and maybe Lucario. He has a solid MU spread and results that overall are better than Dedede and Lucario.

 

[bubbaking]

We don't have a Marvel-style team tier list. How good a character is alone as a secondary directly correlates with how good that character is as a primary. Lolz!

 

[Delta-cod]

Why are we trying to redefine a character's worth based on how they perform in combination with another character now?

 

[bubbaking]

Exactly my point. That's not what our tier list is about.

Edit: You can't properly show how good a character is as a "secondary" without looking at who he's paired with, meaning we're making Marvel-style team tier lists. If that's the case then we are comparing both the secondaries and the primaries they're teamed with.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

That's ********.

You need a list of every potential pairing to know that MK is a better secondary than Ganondorf, or even Diddy Kong? Smash Boards debaters have this bad habit of taking something to it's extreme and then countering it.

I'm just saying it should hold more weight (are we forgetting that it is already taken into account?) because it does directly impact how successful a character should be at a tournament, which is the point of the list.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I'm just saying it should hold more weight (are we forgetting that it is already taken into account?) because it does directly impact how successful a character should be at a tournament, which is the point of the list.

.

 

[bubbaking]

I'm making a hyperbole to show why this secondaries thing is nonsensical. If we're not comparing secondaries with who they're teamed with, then we come to one general conclusion: How well a character does solo as a secondary correlates directly with how well he does as a primary.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Not sure how you can be solo as a secondary, but if you are saying what I think you are, we are in agreement.

Falco's bad MUs against Pika and ICs shouldn't impact his tier position as much as they do.

That doesn't mean I think we should have a tier list with like Meta Knight/Meta Knight, Meta Knight/Snake, etc...
That doesn't mean I think Falco should be #2 because he is such a good secondary.
It just means exactly what I said.

 

[Luco]

Wasn't this the argument that extended to Wario? Someone was saying how a top char just uses him in one set to troll or just because and win/lose, inflating wario's successes to make him look better? Or something?

 

[da K.I.D.]

Yo fk bubba, im amazing at marvel.

#7pageslate

 

[Iota]

I can't really think of anyone who does that outside of like..atomsk and Ally. They've both done good stuff with Wario before though.

 

[allshort17]

I can't really think of anyone who does that outside of like..atomsk and Ally. They've both done good stuff with Wario before though.

Reflex and in general there have been plenty of good, not top Wario players to give result.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Stop posting Bubba. PLEASE. You too Grim...

 

[Grim Tuesday]

No, and if you really wanted me to stop posting rather than just stroking your ego, you'd ignore me.

Though I appreciate being an afterthought.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I don't give people the satisfaction of being on my ignore list.

 

[_Kain_]

Both Bubba and Grim make my brain hurt

 

[infiniteV115]

Bubbatuesday?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Most of what I say starts off as simple and accurate.
I just get drawn into these ******** tangents filled with hyperbole and theorycraft by idiots who need every little aspect of the game spelt out for them because they spend more time debating nuances on here than actually playing Brawl.

#justthefacts

 

[Supreme Dirt]

So let's talk about how Jigglypuff is the worst character in the game.

 

[bubbaking]

Yo fk bubba, im amazing at marvel.

#7pageslate

I never said you weren't. I'm pretty sure you were the one who said he wasn't that good at Marvel.

Most of what I say starts off as simple and accurate.
I just get drawn into these ******** tangents filled with hyperbole and theorycraft by idiots who need every little aspect of the game spelt out for them because they spend more time debating nuances on here than actually playing Brawl.

#justthefacts

Making a tier list based on secondaries sounds pretty ******** if you ask me. We have a tier list made of solo characters that's based off how well they do in tournament and their solo MU spreads. Trying to argue that Falco's place on the tier list can practically ignore his MUs against Pika and ICs because of 'secondaries' is nothing short of foolish. This kind of logic makes DDD, like, #3 on the tier list.

#RealFacts

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Except that isn't at all what I was saying. In fact I went out of my way to say specifically that that isn't what I was saying multiple times.

So thank-you for confirming the post you quoted.

 

[Luco]

Except that isn't at all what I was saying. In fact I went out of my way to say specifically that that isn't what I was saying multiple times.

So thank-you for confirming the post you quoted.

Not to dispute you grim but if that's what you aren't saying, what are you saying? It's just that I made the same mistake, was hoping you could clarify...

Eh, probably just me.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Falco's bad MUs against Pika and ICs shouldn't impact his tier position as much as they do.

That doesn't mean I think we should have a tier list with like Meta Knight/Meta Knight, Meta Knight/Snake, etc...
That doesn't mean I think Falco should be #2 because he is such a good secondary.
It just means exactly what I said.

10characters

 

[Luco]

Aha, I didn't see that post.

 

[Iota]

Reflex and in general there have been plenty of good, not top Wario players to give result.

I know that. I meant it towards Luco's post reference about top level players inflating Wario's results by pulling him out as a pocket even though they don't do anything..which I find untrue. They top level players that pull him generally have done good stuff with him afaik.

So let's talk about how Jigglypuff is the worst character in the game.

No. Zelda is the worst character.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Most of what I say starts off as simple and accurate.
I just get drawn into these ******** tangents filled with hyperbole and theorycraft by idiots who need every little aspect of the game spelt out for them because they spend more time debating nuances on here than actually playing Brawl.

#justthefacts

Mah mans just described himself.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

No. Zelda is the worst character.

nah Zelda beats Bowser.

Jigglypuff loses to or goes even with the entire cast.

 

[Luco]

I know that. I meant it towards Luco's post reference about top level players inflating Wario's results by pulling him out as a pocket even though they don't do anything..which I find untrue. They top level players that pull him generally have done good stuff with him afaik.



No. Zelda is the worst character.

Well be aware that's referring to a post i've heard. Might have been DMG or someone who said it (now I use a bigger shovel to dig a deeper hole, don't I?)

Also, Ganon's MUs clearly state he loses to the whole cast.

 

[bubbaking]

Falco's bad MUs against Pika and ICs shouldn't impact his tier position as much as they do.

That right there is why I think the whole statement is wrong. Why shouldn't they, especially his MU against ICs? They're becoming more common and they are one of the top 4 key MUs. I don't know why brought up 'secondaries,' but it sounded pretty foolish to me.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Mah mans just described himself.

Actually I spend pretty much all my time on Smash, that just happens to include this forum.

I attend every tournament and every meet, and I usually host meets. I ask people to come to my house for Smash pretty much every weekend and once or twice a week after school.

Whenever I'm not playing Smash, I'm on SmashBoards or Youtube watching Smash videos.

 

[bubbaking]

Cool beans. That describes most of us... :-|

 

[Luco]

Cool beans. That describes most of us... :-|

Don't be so melancholy! There are worse ways to spend your time... trust me on this one, gaming is a relatively active hobby compared to some life-styles i've seen.