Official BBR Tier List v7

[bubbaking]

Well, it's a special form of PS'ing that's actually superior to your standard PS. Basically, Yoshi's body 'invincibles' thru an attack. In Melee, it was because Yoshi's body is invincible during his shield startup animation. Yoshi's shield was the only one that didn't come out on frame 1 but that was actually beneficial because Yoshi could shield an attack without actually shielding it and get much better frame advantage than one could get through a standard PS.

Edit: Well actually, I don't know about the "much better" part, but I do know that it gave Yoshi frame advantage for shielding things.

Edit 2: Ah here's an extremely good demonstration:
SSB64: How to parry/block counter with Yoshi
So, does anyone know if this exists in Brawl?

 

[Iota]

Yoshi's shield is an abomination.

 

[Delta-cod]

Yoshi cannot parry in Brawl.

 

[bubbaking]

Ah, that sucks.

Yoshi's shield is an abomination.

It's always extremely good or extremely bad.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Yoshi will move up when he gets a real shield.

Hasn't stopped him from going up since the first tier list. Tbh, though I don't see Yoshi going much higher anymore. Just possibly above Sheik due to results and maybe some other character who doesn't have much rep.

 

[Iota]

That explains one thing. Doesn't change my previous statement though. Not being able to jump oos is stupid.

 

[bubbaking]

Hmm, looking at it again, I think parrying is better than regular PS.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Who said Yoshi's shield wasn't terrible? I wish he had a regular shield... :/ He would at least be a decent character with one.

 

[Iota]

Decent is an understatement imo.

 

[bubbaking]

Who said Yoshi's shield wasn't terrible? I wish he had a regular shield... :/

I said in Melee, his shield is great thanks to parrying and lightshielding (plus it can't be poked and can take a lot of punishment). Oh man, Yoshi lightshielding is hilarious (and good).

 

[infiniteV115]

So...powershielding and then punishing?
wait nvm

 

[RaptorTEC]

Decent is an understatement imo.

I was thinking about saying good but then I remembered this thread only considers like 5 characters max good and everyone else bad

 

[Iota]

Lmao. It's so sad but so true.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I was thinking about saying good but then I remembered this thread only considers like 5 characters max good and everyone else bad

This thread also considers Meta Knight to be the best at everything, even if he is not.

 

[C.J.]

He's the best at winning.


Everything else is unimportant.

Also, if you play MK, IC, Olimar, Snake, or Diddy, you play a good character.

If not, you play a character on various different levels ranging from "not-good" to "bad" to "oh god why Sakurai"

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

never mind

 

[Espy Rose]

This thread also considers Meta Knight to be the best at everything, even if he is not.

He kinda is the best at everything.

 

[Baskerville]

If I may ask, what makes Yoshi's shield so bad? Since I know nothing of the character I'd like to know.

 

[C.J.]

Huge shield drop animation, can't jump OoS

 

[infiniteV115]

Well the main things are that he suffers more shield drop lag (every other char goes through 7 frames of shield drop, Yoshi goes through 17.)
He also can't jump OoS. Normal characters can jump both directly out of shield, and jump out of shield drop. Yoshi can do neither.


On top of that, his rolls are also terrible, so his only good OoS options are to spotdodge (he does have a spotdodge equivalent to Falco Pikachu Toon Link etc, the best in terms of invincibility:total frame duration) and to not shield at all.
And he can't angle his shield.
And his shieldgrab is also pretty slow (though his other pivot grab is amazing so that kinda makes up for it I guess)

Bonuses are that his shield doesn't get shrink so you can't shield poke Yoshi except from below, because his feet hurtboxes stick out further than the shield for some reason.

 

[Iota]

Shield angling is irrelevant cause his shield can't be poked

 

[RaptorTEC]

Very rarely you can poke his shield from below. It's not common though.

 

[infiniteV115]

Shield angling is irrelevant cause his shield can't be poked

Not entirely irrelevant because shield angling can allow you to keep yourself further away from your opponent after they hit your shield, but yeah not a big deal

 

[Iota]

This topic is boring. Let's talk about who we think is underrated on this tier list.

 

[infiniteV115]

PKk ids.

 

[bubbaking]

Decent is an understatement imo.

I was thinking about saying good but then I remembered this thread only considers like 5 characters max good and everyone else bad

5 good characters is an overstatement.

#ThereCanOnlyBeOne

Also, if you play MK, IC, Olimar, Snake, or Diddy, you play a good character.

If not, you play a character on various different levels ranging from "not-good" to "bad" to "oh god why Sakurai"

Marth isn't included in that list? I mean, I'd figure that since he has the best MU spread after Oli (and goes only -1 against MK), he'd also be classified as "good", you know.

Bonuses are that his shield doesn't get shrink so you can't shield poke Yoshi except from below, because his feet hurtboxes stick out further than the shield for some reason.

Isn't his shield also one of the strongest shields in the game? That makes up for being unable to angle it.

 

[infiniteV115]

All shields have the same HP (ie all shields need the exact same amount of shield damage to go from full shield-broken shield).

 

[allshort17]

This topic is boring. Let's talk about who we think is underrated on this tier list.

Toon Link.

 

[Naridax]

Also, if you play MK, IC, Olimar, Snake, or Diddy, you play a good character.

If not, you play a character on various different levels ranging from "not-good" to "bad" to "oh god why Sakurai"

Marth isn't included in that list? I mean, I'd figure that since he has the best MU spread after Oli (and goes only -1 against MK), he'd also be classified as "good", you know.

Falco?

10char

 

[Baskerville]

lol who underrates TL?

 

[C.J.]

Marth isn't included in that list? I mean, I'd figure that since he has the best MU spread after Oli (and goes only -1 against MK), he'd also be classified as "good", you know.

His MUs are overrated/he has a LOT more evens than the current chart reflects.

He's a well designed character that will take you exactly as far in tourney as your skill warrants you to get.

Falco?

10char

If ICs and Pika weren't such a headache for him, then he'd be a good character. Having 2 characters that completely shut you down makes it really hard to consistently do anything when your advancement is based on your bracket.

 

[Naridax]

But that's never stopped Falco from performing well in tournament.

And games of Rain, SLS, and Masha against 9B, Kakera, and Vinnie respectively don't really make it look like Falco gets completely shut down by Ice Climbers.

 

[C.J.]

Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean you can discount it. The fact of the matter is that Pika/IC are essentially stopping points in bracket for Falco. You can say IC doesn't completely shut down IC, and I'm inclined to agree, but I don't think that any Falco has ever taken a set from any good IC in tourney.
Ever.

 

[Shaya]

I think some falco and a different fox took out Lain once back in the day.

 

[Naridax]

No, the fact of the matter is that Pika/ICs aren't stopping points in bracket for Falco. They would if there were actually enough around to stop Falco.

I'll concede that Falco probably hasn't taken a set from a good ICs in tournament.

But Pikachu is also a big headache for Snake. And, aside from Ally's performances lately, Snake also seems to consistently lose convincingly to Meta Knight.

And I'm not discounting the fact that Pika/ICs are major threats to Falco. I acknowledge that. But I'm also acknowledging the fact that good Pika/ICs are extremely rare.

 

[C.J.]

Yes they are rare. At smaller tourneys. Look at something large scale that will have 1-2 good Pikas (at least) and something like 5+ good ICs?

Randomize the bracket over and over again. Sure, Falco makes it without seeing them sometimes, but he'll consistently run into at least one of them.

Falco won't be consistently doing anything big and important/it's completely bracket dependent/when it does happen it IS a stopping point for Falco/Falco isn't as good as my aforementioned good characters.


I also recognize that I have a very strict/limiting definition as to when a character is "good."
I just also view very few characters as "bad" and see most of them as whatever.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Why does a character need to be good on its own to be considered good when so many top players these days are co-mains.

 

[C.J.]

Because, as I said, that is my restricting PoV on the matter. I acknowledged that it's quite limited.

 

[bubbaking]

I also recognize that I have a very strict/limiting definition as to when a character is "good."
I just also view very few characters as "bad" and see most of them as whatever.

Doesn't everyone?

Why does a character need to be good on its own to be considered good when so many top players these days are co-mains.

With that logic, DDD's a great character.

Seriously though, a character is good if someone can pour ALL of their skills into that one character and reasonably win a large tournament. Being forced to switch is not part of the job description.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Seriously though, a character is good if someone can pour ALL of their skills into that one character and reasonably win a large tournament. Being forced to switch is not part of the job description.

Oh good, someone finally agrees with me that MK is the only good character.