Official BBR Tier List v7

[.....]

I noticed that in the last tier list, DK rose up a bit now he dropped a lot.

 

[AO2]

ONCE AGAIN THE BBR HAS RELEASED ANOTHER FLAWED TIER LIST....olimar is not second best on the game jsut because he ***** ALLY and other U.S players...in all truth U.S player dont have any olimar player that use him to the fullest...U.S players had a lack of experiance when it came to him being used right thats all...some of the best characters still lay close to the bottom of the list...Fox,sheik,G&W all being characters that **** high tier character and still remain in there same position. way ta go BBR yu guys have much to learn about brawl and its characters

 

[infiniteV115]

Dat double phone

 

[allshort17]

ONCE AGAIN THE BBR HAS RELEASED ANOTHER FLAWED TIER LIST....olimar is not second best on the game jsut because he ***** ALLY and other U.S players...in all truth U.S player dont have any olimar player that use him to the fullest...U.S players had a lack of experiance when it came to him being used right thats all...some of the best characters still lay close to the bottom of the list...Fox,sheik,G&W all being characters that **** high tier character and still remain in there same position. way ta go BBR yu guys have much to learn about brawl and its characters

I guess Dabuz, Rich Brown, Anaur, Denti, and Logic haven't been doing enough.

 

[Lukingordex]

ONCE AGAIN THE BBR HAS RELEASED ANOTHER FLAWED TIER LIST....olimar is not second best on the game jsut because he ***** ALLY and other U.S players...in all truth U.S player dont have any olimar player that use him to the fullest...U.S players had a lack of experiance when it came to him being used right thats all...some of the best characters still lay close to the bottom of the list...Fox,sheik,G&W all being characters that **** high tier character and still remain in there same position. way ta go BBR yu guys have much to learn about brawl and its characters

Sheik? Fox?

Remember,this is a Brawl tier list,not a Melee tier list.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Whoops....meant D3, not ZSS in the positive MUs.

 

[Greave]

Late to the party . . .

What is this nonsense? Someone explain why Snake is so low.

 

[Mekos]

Since people are answering questions...someone please answer me why zelda and luigi are placed higher than my boy lucas? Lol same with Ike. Why is Ike higher. Yall should have asked me. I only got asked like twice about matchups.

I mean they don't do better than him in tourney. Singles or dubs.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

wtf are you talking about? Zelda is not higher than Lucas.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I think he is mixing up the shielda with zelda.

 

[Alacion]

Sheik is technically Zelda...? So Zelda is higher than Lucas in a way...

 

[Mekos]

oh yea. still. Question remains the same. Definitely Ike and luigi. Who decided that?
I doubt they have better matchups and don't place better than lucas. wth

I would love to hear an explanation. I know it's late (I hope to get an answer tomorrow). And remember we all make mistakes.

 

[san.]

Lucas performs pretty decently, but he's never really had a splash at a national as far as I know.

I think the first thing that should be asked is why is he in low tier next to the likes of Mario?


Can you give me a rundown of how Lucas is currently doing in tourneys? PF has always placed decently in MD/VA top 5-8, and you in your region.

For Sheik, I remember the influence from some of the Japanese players, and a few instances at some regionals.

Luigi still has good placements from Boss when he enters, as well as the likes of MrConCon who defeated some large names recently.

Ike has Ryo who can go toe to toe with all of the best FL players and place top 3. I can make it decently far at large events consistently. I win my locals, but we don't have many high level players anymore except for a few. Nysyarc places top 5 in his region.

In 2011 you can see the amount of money quite clearly.

Spoiler

So far in 2012, everyone's value is low.. I know Ike is getting around $100 more soon once the updates catch up..

 

[Mekos]

Lucas performs pretty decently, but he's never really had a splash at a national as far as I know.

I think the first thing that should be asked is why is he in low tier next to the likes of Mario?


Can you give me a rundown of how Lucas is currently doing in tourneys? PF has always placed decently in MD/VA top 5-8, and you in your region.

For Sheik, I remember the influence from some of the Japanese players, and a few instances at some regionals.

Luigi still has good placements from Boss when he enters, as well as the likes of MrConCon who defeated some large names recently.

Ike has Ryo who can go toe to toe with all of the best FL players and place top 3. I can make it decently far at large events consistently. I win my locals, but we don't have many high level players anymore except for a few. Nysyarc places top 5 in his region.

In 2011 you can see the amount of money quite clearly.

Spoiler

So far in 2012, everyone's value is low.. I know Ike is getting around $100 more soon once the updates catch up..

Lucas gets shut down in singles by characters(u can still beat them tho. Not impossible) that can do alot of lame grab things to him(every national i run into Poltergust and a top level snake haha). I unfortunately always run into people like that at nationals(of course I do well at locals. Usually 2nd or 3rd. We have Esam). But luigi and ike can't do that to lucas. I beat Ryo at apex and also have beat Berserker swordsman. And beat boss and jband's luigi solidly(Mr con con if u include wifi ;p lol). I feel that all three characters have a bunch of bad matchups but at the highest level of play utilizing all ATs, lucas should be higher.

It's not about what character makes the most money it's about the MU charts right? I rarely enter singles in NC. Doubles is my passion. But I do sometimes which is prob that money there. Cuz if that was doubles money it would be way more mwhahaaha. I enter singles at regionals, nationals, and sometimes locals. But anyways...
This is a quote from the mu chart
"Note that for all scores a competitive level of play is assumed and the performance of top and high level players was generally considered more strongly than what is seen in lower level play. Keep in mind that the chart does not necessarily reflect the opinions and performances of absolute outliers and is ultimately a consensus between people who are assumed to know their character. Furthermore, the Unity ruleset was kept in mind."

Well I'm currently the top level lucas player and that mu chart is wrong. I've never lost to a luigi or ike and beat the top ones. The MU chart doesn't reflect that. It says -1 for lucas against Ike for example get that out of here. Definitely +1 for us. These people didn't ask me my opinion on nothing... -_-. Esam asked me about my opinion on the pika matchup if that was a part of this. But that is it.

Another example. I have proved the matchup against ice-climbers is not as bad as the mu chart shows. The only ice-climbes I have ever lost to is Esam. I've played alot please believe. Keep in mind i have also beaten Esam's ice-climbers. My point is lucas got screwed.

The only reason im going so hard in the paint is cuz i promised my lucas brethren I would get him out of low tier. And some of the characters I see above him blow my mind. I havn't even got to play all of the cast top level players in tourney yet and the mu chart just shows him getting bodied by everyone. It's like they have a bias against him cuz of some historical data from like 08. Well the lucas metagame has evolved people(I've created two ATs for lucas for example). We pk firebenders are here to make our mark...

 

[smashkng]

Ike has good enough matchups to compete. His options are pretty limited, yes, but they are enough to deal with almost everything dumb at least decently unlike Lucas. Very few characters have non-projectile moves that can outrange Ike's moves and Ike hits very hard. Also I don't think playing Ryo just once means that the matchup is automatically in Lucas' favour. It's just one set and I don't know how many Lucases there are in Florida.

 

[Mekos]

I've beaten many other ikes my friend(never lost to an ike) at regionals and nationals. But most people only care about how u did against the top level players for that character. He is the only top level ike I've played. Actually correction...I think I've also played Berserker swordman. I beat him. Yea it was at a NJ tourney called Clash 1. I'll correct my earlier post.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=310114&highlight=Clash

I just joined the tourney scene in 2010. So of course I haven't had the chance to play all the top level players in the community. For some reason I get unlucky and seem to play the same ones lol.

And i disagree with u. I've created a new AT for lucas and playstyle which has enhanced his quickness. Before he couldn't "compete" as u say against certain characters. But now he can. For example, I've beaten many top level marths in tourney and money matches. A matchup people have been saying for years is impossible because of the infinite. U should check out some of my gameplay vids. Stop thinking about old lucas gameplay. That is my frustration.

And when i say top level. I mean players on that top 5 list on SWF.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

-_- I told you in chat that head to head doesn't matter in terms of tier list. It may change the results of one particular MU, but most likely you will need more than one person to show evidence that a MU is a certain way (Otherwise Pikachu would have like 1-2 losing MUs tops based on me)

 

[KuroganeHammer]

And when i say top level. I mean players on that top 5 list on SWF.

Vids? I'm interested in seeing Lucas beating top Marths.

 

[Mekos]

Esam go away

Check my quote I included from the mu chart. They said they used that.
I'll requite for u esam.
"Note that for all scores a competitive level of play is assumed and the performance of top and high level players was generally considered more strongly than what is seen in lower level play. Keep in mind that the chart does not necessarily reflect the opinions and performances of absolute outliers and is ultimately a consensus between people who are assumed to know their character. Furthermore, the Unity ruleset was kept in mind."

The only one that got recorded was a recent one against Kadaj. Here u go buddy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tqdB2K_69I

 

[Pierce7d]

Exactly what Esam just said, is what I was going to say. I also do not believe Lucas is low-tier, but all the examples you just gave involved yourself. You have to be careful because on one hand, you want to take evidence at the top of the metagame, but then you also have be careful not to overfactor an outlier.

 

[Mekos]

but pierce check this.
"Note that for all scores a competitive level of play is assumed and the performance of top and high level players was generally considered more strongly than what is seen in lower level play. Keep in mind that the chart does not necessarily reflect the opinions and performances of absolute outliers and is ultimately a consensus between people who are assumed to know their character. Furthermore, the Unity ruleset was kept in mind."

If that is the case. Then I am the example _-_. And I feel they definitely didn't use me for that MU chart. Another example is us against Rob. I've beaten all robs. The only one that has ever beat me is Stingers. We go back and forth. I beat chibo, Ninja link, X's little brother, etc. The MU chart has it as -3 for lucas!! Wth!!
This is the only Rob that has come close(Stingers) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyVq5wLStlQ

They just hating on lucas cuz he got bodied in the past real bad. Give the poor blonde a break man.

I'm the only active top level lucas guys -_-.(for esam's point)

So two main points for anyone just tuning in.
1. Lucas should not be low tier. Def not below luigi and Ike
2. The MU chart was used to help create this tier list. The MU chart is completely wrong for lucas

Going to bed. Test tomorrow. I'll check in tomorrow fellas

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Lol you are like a worse version of me in terms of what you are dealing with, I love it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mekos, start helping other Lucas mains so he can rise up.

...One top level player just shows the character has potential, but it doesn't mean the character'll win enough to be of a higher tier than the current listing. I think that's what they're getting at.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Alternatively, Mekos, you can place 5th or higher a a National, and/or take out many names in the bracket, and you'll see how Lucas randomly jumps to second place

 

[Jimmy?]

Um, Lucas is listed as being -1 versus Rob?

Unless I'm missing something. .-.

lucasfortoptierthoughjustsaying

 

[C.J.]

There are so many things wrong with what you're asserting Mekos...

First of all, beating Ike head to head doesn't mean that Lucas is a better character than Ike, at all. Ditto Luigi. All that means is that Lucas wins the MU. Secondly, you cite your win vs Ryo. How many times did you beat him? Were they close? Does Ryo have extensive MU exp vs Lucas (you said you do have exp vs high level Ike play)? Etc etc. There's a lot more that goes into a MU than singular events that happen.

While it's great and all that you do well in locals and that you managed to beat Ryo at Apex, but you also said that you don't do as well in nationals due to running into a "high level Snake." If a character as common as Snake is enough to cause problems for Lucas while Ike has a manageable time in an actual important MU (read: not the head-to-head vs Lucas), then it's more supportive of the idea that Ike is a better character.

Going on to your opinion of MUs and your win/loss records vs characters:
Once again MU (in)experience has to be considered as a factor. You said that you beat a lot of ROB's except for Stingers with whom you go back and forth in wins and losses. This seems to imply that you beat the other ROBs due in part for them not being well versed in the MU while Stingers, who is after playing you frequently, does significantly better. This doesn't mean that Lucas beats ROB at all, it doesn't mean they go even. All it means is that you beat people that lacked exp in a MU and go even with someone with exp. All the while, the person you go even with, while a great player and an amazing ROB, still isn't the best ROB. Same thing applies to IC.

Also, you should really reread what you keep quoting to people from the MU chart. It specifically states, " Keep in mind that the chart does not necessarily reflect the opinions and performances of absolute outliers and is ultimately a consensus between people who are assumed to know their character."
If you are the ONLY Lucas who is doing things, that means it is likely that you are an outlier. If you are an outlier, then the chart, while it takes it into consideration still, does NOT reflect your performances since you're an outlier and not indicative of an accurate depiction of top level play. You're quoting something that is specifically saying that your argument is wrong ._.


[COLLAPSE=" "]Lucas is not a better character than Ike and you are beyond insane if you honestly think otherwise. Lucas isn't low tier though and probably better than Luigi though.
HOWEVER, that isn't important if you don't actually do anything in nationals since that is the best reflection of the metagame at top level. If you don't do well there, then it doesn't matter since that shows that Lucas obviously isn't viable or a threat.[/COLLAPSE]

Lol you are like a worse version of me in terms of what you are dealing with, I love it.

Ugh, it really is like a more stubborn version of you. You're enough as is

(Come back to FL soon)

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Hey hey, I have another Pikachu to back up my statements now (Finally).

Also, I'm coming back to FL on Rebecca Black day.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Who is the other Pika? Does he have a different style to you?

 

[stingers]

chibo has a lot of lucas practice, I know for a fact.
still tho lucas isnt low tier lmao. come on guys.

 

[Espy Rose]

Lol you are like a worse version of me in terms of what you are dealing with, I love it.

I can't tell the difference.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Did Mekos really just pick out characters that he has head-to-head with to say that Lucas is better and skip everyone in between?

 

[PSI Nexus]

Shut up, Mekos. Why would you want Lucas out of low tier? He's perfectly fine where he is.

.......Link once again falls

I alwas thought that Link was better than Jiggs, but the tier list doesn't really matter when you're talking about low tier unless it was the people who could be or were in mid tier before.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I like that Lucas is low tier so he can body people in LT events

But for real tho, he's too good to be down there. The more I think about it, the more I think he should be mid. Honestly, the only justification I can come up with for him still being in low is that Mario is down there too, and he's not THAT bad either.

EDIT: No way in hell Lucas is better than Ike though.

 

[Uncle]

You want to know someone in the cast who is REALLY lacking in presence at regionals, nationals, and even locals?

King effin' BOWSAH

Almost all of the good Bowsers we previously had are either retired or playing someone else now. Zigsta and Limit are currently our best bets, once they return to activity. Also, a couple of other aspiring Bowsers (myself included) hope to prove ourselves.

Most importantly, though, we need more Bowser presence at regionals/nationals. He may be a low tier, but we can make him look like a respectable one. Going a tier up is almost ridiculously optimistic, but maybe (just maybe) we can overtake Samus and Mario to become the King of Low Tiers once again.

This, of course, assumes that Lucas will be moved a tier up in the near future.

 

[FightAdamantEevee]

y did everybody forget about me

did i like die or something

what

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I have no idea who you are.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Hey hey, I have another Pikachu to back up my statements now (Finally).

Also, I'm coming back to FL on Rebecca Black day.

The dumbest aka Tag?

shouldn't be LT and I brought it up during BBR discussion for two tier lists in a row now, but oh well.

 

[Espy Rose]

Sucks that more was taken into consideration than just opinion. I feel like Lucas doesn't belong in Low Tier either.

What other Pikachus are doing things? Z? He's the only one I can think of, but that's only because I know him by name, not by accomplishments.
That isn't to say that he hasn't done anything big, but I'm definitely oblivious to that.

 

[Orion*]

Hey hey, I have another Pikachu to back up my statements now (Finally).

Also, I'm coming back to FL on Rebecca Black day.

???

who is this xD

 

[san.]

y did everybody forget about me

did i like die or something

what

Dunno how players like you and Galeon place recently.