Official BBR Tier List v7

[C.J.]

For the example I gave, you're completely right. I worded it awfully, my mistake.

I see where I messed up. My apologies

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

In this case, it's about 2%. This specific case.

But you can't just take two separate probabilities and add them together. That isn't how it works, lol.

 

[C.J.]

Not the way I did it in that example, no. Like I said, I phrased it horribly :x

 

[Ishiey]

I just want to make sure everyone knows how math works lol. People were implying you could just add the %s, which is kasjcnksdjnakdsf. But yes, in this case it's about the same % regardless, I'm just being a pain about proper math

 

[GOofyGV]

I did read that CF has the highest trip rate =X

 

[C.J.]

Yeah, I applied single event rules (thinking about the chance of a trip bring one event) to multiple event situations (2 decks, 2 climbers). I just derped.

 

[Cassio]

Rich Brown has the highest trip rate.

lol, actually olimar does trip way more than normal though just bc hes on the ground so much. Pika flies around like a vampire bat so I dont find myself tripping much.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Cf doesnt have a higher trip rate, he just has the highest chance of people noticing and laughing at him when he does trip

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Rich Brown has the highest trip rate.

lol, actually olimar does trip way more than normal though just bc hes on the ground so much. Pika flies around like a vampire bat so I dont find myself tripping much.

Olimar trips way more than other characters because if he's moving horizontally, it's via foxtrot. Olimar players do it to themselves.

 

[Sinister Slush]

And they deserve every horrible thing that happens to them after a trip.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Characters that dash a lot trip a lot, naturally. Captain Falcon, ZSS, etc.

It probably isn't a coincidence that higher-tier characters have awesome options while walking or standing still. I can't remember the last time I saw Snake trip (though I don't really look for it).

I think Salem trips like 100 times a match.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

One of the perks of being a Wario main.

 

[SoulPech]

I had a thought: What if Sakurai added something that would screw you over in the air, like air-tripping or something stupid like that?

 

[infiniteV115]

Also one of the perks to being a character with a good walk speed (eg Marth, ZSS, Falco)

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Also one of the perks to being a character with a good walk speed (eg Marth, ZSS, Falco)

I didn't realize that, I actually looked it up and there are very interesting results there. Walk speed rankings:

1. Marth, Fox
2. Sonic
3. Sheik, ZSS
4. Wolf, Falco
5. Pikachu, Diddy Kong
6. TL, Meta Knight
7. DK, Squirtle, Link
8. Pit
9. Yoshi
10. ROB
11. Game and Watch, Mario
12. Luigi
13. Samus
14. Ivysaur
15. Lucario
14. Ice Climbers
15. Dedede, Kirby
16. Olimar
17. Ike
18. Peach
19. Falcon, Ness
20. Wario, Snake
21. Lucas
22. Zelda
23. Bowser
24. Ganondorf
23. Jigglypuff
24. Charizard

Interestingly enough, a character's dash speed doesn't really have very much to do with their ability to traverse big distances quickly. For example, Mario makes it across FD at the same time as Pikachu

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=182060

Quoted here:

As requested, I've added a list of movement time, in seconds, for characters running across Final Destination. Thanks go to johnnylaw505 and Foxtrotter.

1.0 (Sonic)
1.3 (C Falcon)
1.5 (Fox)
1.5 (MetaKnight)
1.5 (Shiek)
1.5 (ZSS)
1.6 (Mario)
1.6 (Pikachu)
1.7 (Charizard)
1.7 (Marth)
1.7 (Toon Link)
1.7 (Yoshi)
1.8 (Diddy)
1.8 (R.O.B.)
1.9 (DK)
1.9 (G&W)
1.9 (Lucario)
1.9 (Lucas)
1.9 (Pit)
2.0 (ICs)
2.0 (Kirby)
2.0 (Ness)
2.0 (Squirtle)
2.0 (Luigi)
2.0 (Wolf)
2.1 (Ivysaur)
2.1 (Link)
2.1 (Peach)
2.1 (Samus)
2.1 (Snake)
2.1 (Wario)
2.2 (Bowser)
2.2 (Falco)
2.2 (Olimar)
2.3 (Ike)
2.4 (Dedede)
2.4 (Zelda)
2.6 (Ganondorf)
2.6 (Jigglypuff)

 

[da K.I.D.]

walk accelaration is more important than walk speed though. falco and marths walk for example are more useful than sonics because sonic takes a while to get to max walk speed to position himself and space properly, which is why we all just run and spincancel more.

 

[Atomsk_92]

Falco's walk is as fast as IC's run I believe.

 

[infiniteV115]

I wouldn't trust that list, SFP. It doesn't like very...let's say, authentic and in-depth.
Whenever you're referring to stuff like that, you should probably refer to this thread.

I'll quote it.

Dash/Foxtrot Speed

1. Fox (2.10)
2. Captain Falcon (2.05)
3. Falco (1.90)
4. Samus (1.86)
5. Lucario (1.80)
5. Pikachu (1.80)
7. Meta Knight (1.75)
8. Diddy Kong (1.70)
8. Sheik (1.70)
8. Wolf (1.70)
8. Zero Suit Samus (1.70)
12. Donkey Kong (1.60)
12. Squirtle (1.60)
14. Ike (1.50)
14. Mario (1.50)
14. Marth (1.50)
14. Mr. Game & Watch (1.50)
14. Peach (1.50)
14. Pit (1.50)
14. Sonic (1.50)
14. Toon Link (1.50)
22. Ice Climbers (1.40)
22. Ivysaur (1.40)
22. Jigglypuff (1.40)
22. King Dedede (1.40)
22. Kirby (1.40)
22. Olimar (1.40)
28. Yoshi (1.33)
29. Charizard (1.30)
29. Ganondorf (1.30)
29. Link (1.30)
29. Lucas (1.30)
29. Ness (1.30)
29. R.O.B. (1.30)
29. Wario (1.30)
36. Luigi (1.28)
37. Zelda (1.25)
38. Snake (1.10)
39. Bowser (1.00)

Running Speed

1. Sonic (3.50)
2. Captain Falcon (2.18)
3. Fox (2.08)
4. Zero Suit Samus (1.93)
5. Sheik (1.92)
6. Meta Knight (1.85)
7. Charizard (1.80)
8. Pikachu (1.76)
9. Diddy Kong (1.72)
10. Marth (1.70)
11. Yoshi (1.68)
12. Toon Link (1.65)
13. Donkey Kong (1.62)
14. Pit (1.58)
15. Mr. Game & Watch (1.55)
16. Bowser (1.53)
17. Ivysaur (1.50)
17. Lucas (1.50)
17. Mario (1.50)
17. R.O.B. (1.50)
21. Samus (1.45)
22. Falco (1.43)
23. Lucario (1.41)
24. Olimar (1.40)
24. Wolf (1.40)
26. Ice Climbers (1.39)
26. Ness (1.39)
28. Ike (1.37)
28. Kirby (1.37)
28. Squirtle (1.37)
31. Peach (1.35)
31. Snake (1.35)
31. Wario (1.35)
34. Luigi (1.34)
35. Link (1.33)
36. King Dedede (1.22)
36. Zelda (1.22)
38. Ganondorf (1.16)
39. Jigglypuff (1.10)

Pikachu's dash speed > Mario's, and Pikachu's running speed > Mario's, and Pikachu's dash speed > Mario's running speed. So assuming these numbers use the same units (it seems they do) then Pikachu can travel across FD faster.

And according to the list, Falco's max walking speed is slightly slower than ICs' running and dashing speeds

 

[Xubble]

All I know is in comparison of their walk/dash speeds, Charizard gets the greatest benefit from dashing, and Fox gets the least.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Now if only Charizard didn't stick out his neck so far while dashing...

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I trip a ****-load with Puff; lots of dash-shenanigans on the ground to try and be unpredictable.

 

[SoulPech]

Why are you on the ground with Puff?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Watch my videos noob

EDIT: to elaborate
ground > air transition is a lot more flexible than air > ground transition
so I have more options if I stay on the ground, and jump when necessary, rather than the other way around

 

[deepseadiva]

You know, it'd be nice if we stopped saying super one dimensional things like "why is Jigglypuff on the ground."

Maybe one day.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Ehh, he got the point across. I know what you mean, though.

 

[Neon!]

Is it just me or does jigglypuff the only character to have absolutely no representation at the top level of play? Ganon, Zelda and Link all have had solid players at some point in the games history. I cant think of any notable wins by any jigglypuff ever.

 

[| Big D |]

Dapuffster beat Riot in Pools with Jiggs at Apex IIRC.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

A Puff beat a Zelda ALERT THE MEDIA!!!!!!

 

[| Big D |]

He said that Zelda had representation at top levels of play. If the top Zelda got beaten by a Puff would that puff not be on the same level or above?

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

He said that Zelda had representation at top levels of play. If the top Zelda got beaten by a Puff would that puff not be on the same level or above?

Dammit why can't you let me make a joke >: (

 

[infiniteV115]

The Puff might actually be at a slightly lower level if the MU is in Jiggs' favour

 

[SoulPech]

Meno on Troll status.

Dapuffster had some wins in the past, but he's no longer active.

My only notable wins are just from my region (like Clowsui, S2, and Hael Phael). I've taken games off of AZ and other mid/mid high players, but never sets. Working on that though

 

[dettadeus]

I feel like Jiggs has fewer abusable gimmicks than Ganon and Zelda. Ganon and Zelda have some really annoying stuff that most people don't know how to deal with, Jiggs doesn't really have anything like that.

 

[Alacion]

Zelda got timed out. She has no options because Puff can easily cancel Din's Fire.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Da Puffster also 2 stocked Mew2Kang in tournament.

Makes me smile when I see him play marvel these days.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Puffs just need to figure out ways to land Rest. If that happens she may go up on the tier list

 

[Neon!]

I feel like Jiggs has fewer abusable gimmicks than Ganon and Zelda. Ganon and Zelda have some really annoying stuff that most people don't know how to deal with, Jiggs doesn't really have anything like that.

Jiggs does have fewer gimmicks but she is safer and has an above average recovery. She can also semi WOP a few characters. I also think nair is her best move and that her dacus is underused.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Is it just me or does jigglypuff the only character to have absolutely no representation at the top level of play? Ganon, Zelda and Link all have had solid players at some point in the games history. I cant think of any notable wins by any jigglypuff ever.

Few reasons for this
1. No reason to like her. Ganon and Zelda can have fans just because of how popular Zelda is.
2. Very basic playstyle, no gimmicks to offer.
3. She sucks.
4. Many characters fill the same niche, but better.
5. Nerfed noticeably from Melee (makes her seem worse than she is, due to perspective)

in no particular order

I feel like Jiggs has fewer abusable gimmicks than Ganon and Zelda. Ganon and Zelda have some really annoying stuff that most people don't know how to deal with, Jiggs doesn't really have anything like that.

Gimmicks are gimmicks. Ganon might have an easier time beating a low-tier-ignorant player, but that's not how we measure a character's strength.

Puffs just need to figure out ways to land Rest. If that happens she may go up on the tier list

Puff's should be better at landing Rests, yes. But she shouldn't move up much, if at all.

Jiggs does have fewer gimmicks but she is safer and has an above average recovery. She can also semi WOP a few characters. I also think nair is her best move and that her dacus is underused.

You would be quite wrong, imo, but k.
Why do you think nair is her best move?

 

[Shaya]

Nair is relatively usable in shield pressure with mix up options to avoid punishments.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Nair is definitely ONE of her best moves, sure.

I don't see it as better than Pound, Bair, Fair, Dair and Grab, though...