GOofyGV
Smash Lord
Ganon at at least has options with his tech chase and pretty good arials.
I think Ganon is better then zelda,Falcon and maybe Puff,Link as well.
I think Ganon is better then zelda,Falcon and maybe Puff,Link as well.
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Official BBR Tier List v7
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NickRiddle
#negativeNick
It could be argued he isnt the worst, but there is absolutely no way he could EVER be argued as bettet than Link.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Insert rage at suggestion of Puff being worse than Ganon.
cbf too late for this bs
cbf too late for this bs
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Especially because Link is too low as it isIt could be argued he isnt the worst, but there is absolutely no way he could EVER be argued as bettet than Link.
Meru.
I like spicy food
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Zelda > Ganondorf.
Fsmash may be SDI'ed but you can still rely a bit on the last few hits. Usmash poops on aerial approaches and has a decent reward. Dtilt can actually lead up to stuff and Dsmash is a fast and strong gtfo with good range. She's less slow and has decent aerial mobility, her recovery is not as bad, she gets juggled but she doesn't get combod like Ganon gets. And she has a pretty decent dash attack herself.
For some reason people just seem to take Ganon more serious than Zelda, I don't see why as their both a joke, Zelda being a slightly better (or less worse) joke.
Fsmash may be SDI'ed but you can still rely a bit on the last few hits. Usmash poops on aerial approaches and has a decent reward. Dtilt can actually lead up to stuff and Dsmash is a fast and strong gtfo with good range. She's less slow and has decent aerial mobility, her recovery is not as bad, she gets juggled but she doesn't get combod like Ganon gets. And she has a pretty decent dash attack herself.
For some reason people just seem to take Ganon more serious than Zelda, I don't see why as their both a joke, Zelda being a slightly better (or less worse) joke.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Ganon has side-b and uair, and both are legitimately strong, but everything else about Ganon is bad. Zelda's nair, usmash, utilt, dtilt, and dsmash are all pretty decent. Fsmash doesn't work like it should but it does have uses. She also doesn't get destroyed by every CG and lock in the game...
I don't see how he could be better. >_<
I don't see how he could be better. >_<
RaptorTEC
Smash Champion
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahajahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahajahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahajahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahajahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
I hate Yaaay's font, I really do, it's terrible.
I'm by no means a Zelda expert, but I feel like there's been some misinformation spread.
Zelda's usmash is very good (for the most part) and I'm fairly certain it doesn't lack horizontal range to any significant degree. If anyone would like to prove/disprove what I'm saying with a hitbox diagram (Aerodrome, I hope you namesearch), feel free to do so. I couldn't find one.
(Taken directly from the Zelda guide on the boards)
[COLLAPSE="Up Smash Viability List by Fuujin"]Up Smash Viability List
These characters can easily escape Zelda's Up smash with DI.
Marth
Lucas
Ness
These characters can escape Zelda's UP smash most of the time with DI.
Pit
Diddy Kong
Samus
Lucario
Ice Climber(single)
These characters are unlikely to escape Zelda's Up smash, even with DI.
Bowser
Captain Falcon
Donkey Kong
Falco
Fox
Ganondorf
Ike
Jigglypuff
King Dedede
Kirby
Link
Meta Knight
Mr. Game & Watch
Olimar
Pikachu
Pit
Pokémon Trainer
R.O.B.
Zero Suit Samus
Snake
Sonic
Toon Link
Wario
Wolf
Zelda
Yoshi
Sheik
Peach
Luigi
Mario
[/COLLAPSE]
It works on a good chunk of the cast.
Dtilt and dsmash are also very good. These 2 and usmash are probably her best moves.
Her dash attack, jab, Nayru's Love and Din's Fire are all good for different things but certainly aren't on the level of usmash/dsmash/dtilt.
Aerials are (outside of nair) terrifyingly strong, however they're all very unsafe on shield, situational and telegraphed.
Her main problem is that she can't approach, due to
-Pretty bad mobility
-All of her attacks are terrible on shield and have terrible range
-Has one of the worst grabs in the game (horrible startup, horrible range, good chunk of cooldown)
She also lacks strong OoS options, has bad recovery, has a terrible air game and gets juggled easily, can be camped and walled out easily...that's all I know.
I'm by no means a Zelda expert, but I feel like there's been some misinformation spread.
Zelda's usmash is very good (for the most part) and I'm fairly certain it doesn't lack horizontal range to any significant degree. If anyone would like to prove/disprove what I'm saying with a hitbox diagram (Aerodrome, I hope you namesearch), feel free to do so. I couldn't find one.
(Taken directly from the Zelda guide on the boards)
[COLLAPSE="Up Smash Viability List by Fuujin"]Up Smash Viability List
These characters can easily escape Zelda's Up smash with DI.
Marth
Lucas
Ness
These characters can escape Zelda's UP smash most of the time with DI.
Pit
Diddy Kong
Samus
Lucario
Ice Climber(single)
These characters are unlikely to escape Zelda's Up smash, even with DI.
Bowser
Captain Falcon
Donkey Kong
Falco
Fox
Ganondorf
Ike
Jigglypuff
King Dedede
Kirby
Link
Meta Knight
Mr. Game & Watch
Olimar
Pikachu
Pit
Pokémon Trainer
R.O.B.
Zero Suit Samus
Snake
Sonic
Toon Link
Wario
Wolf
Zelda
Yoshi
Sheik
Peach
Luigi
Mario
[/COLLAPSE]
It works on a good chunk of the cast.
Dtilt and dsmash are also very good. These 2 and usmash are probably her best moves.
Her dash attack, jab, Nayru's Love and Din's Fire are all good for different things but certainly aren't on the level of usmash/dsmash/dtilt.
Aerials are (outside of nair) terrifyingly strong, however they're all very unsafe on shield, situational and telegraphed.
Her main problem is that she can't approach, due to
-Pretty bad mobility
-All of her attacks are terrible on shield and have terrible range
-Has one of the worst grabs in the game (horrible startup, horrible range, good chunk of cooldown)
She also lacks strong OoS options, has bad recovery, has a terrible air game and gets juggled easily, can be camped and walled out easily...that's all I know.
Quite often, SDI-ing Zelda's f-smash allows for her to follow up with another move so it isn't completely terrible.
Her d-tilt is pretty good, not just okay. It has a very high trip rate, and it can be followed up with additional d-tilts. Later on, you can follow it up with a KO attack.
But yeah, I agree with Ganon > Zelda.
^There are more characters that are able to escape Zelda's up smash such as Toon Link and Pikachu.
Her d-tilt is pretty good, not just okay. It has a very high trip rate, and it can be followed up with additional d-tilts. Later on, you can follow it up with a KO attack.
But yeah, I agree with Ganon > Zelda.
^There are more characters that are able to escape Zelda's up smash such as Toon Link and Pikachu.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Because he's sexy.
Last hit of Zelda's up smash :D
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Because Captain Falcon isn't the worst. >_>
GOofyGV
Smash Lord
some characters that are smal can just kinda stand next to her lol
Thank you for posting this.
I think all of you people who don't play Zelda and say she's worst can shut your mouths.
I for one think Zelda has the potential to be above ganon, jiggs, link, and CF.
and now with Fuujin super banned maybe she can get somewhere...
I also agree with Gheb.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Zelda alone definitely isn't better than Link, probably not better than Jiggs. You could make a case for her being > Ganon and CF, but you could also make a case for her being the worst in the game.
In my last post I wasn't trying to prove that she isn't the worst. I was just explaining that people think she's bad for the wrong reasons.
In my last post I wasn't trying to prove that she isn't the worst. I was just explaining that people think she's bad for the wrong reasons.
Meru.
I like spicy food
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Verdana hates you too. More than Comic Sans MS.
I disagree with this tbh... I think Falcon is terrible but the reason I didn't mention him as a possible worst character is because I personally think its obvious that Zelda and Falcon are better than Ganon and I'm surprised people tend to think otherwise. They aren't MUCH better but imo they are clearly better... Ganondorf is one of the worst characters ever made.
Zelda or Falcon have a much smaller gap between each other than they have with Ganondorf imo. I wouldn't disagree with Zelda being better than Falcon, but I could also agree with Falcon being better than Zelda.
Not that anyone should care anyway. These character are severely underrepresented because they are so ridiculously bad. It's hard to make an accurate assessment on any of these characters.
Baskerville
That's a paddlin'
If only if it was for the whole animation, then she'd be slightly more useful.Last hit of Zelda's up smash :D
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
Well if Ganon's fair worked how it was meant too he wouldnt be the worst.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
It's funny how true that is.
SoulPech
Smash Master
I didn't even use Falco vs Jband, why are you using that as a discussion for why Falco vs ICs is a terrible match up?
Unless you're terrible and your character is drastically carrying you Vinnie; I don't believe Falco vs ICs is any worse than -2 for Falco. The matches I've seen you play vs Shugo, Masha, and my Falco have been pretty close, although we didn't take any rounds.
Match ups shouldn't be decided by player X beating player Y, that's such a terrible idea.
Acute.Anthrax
Smash Cadet
Zelda is good
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Jimmyfosho
Smash Hero
Classic picture from the past.
Ussi
Smash Legend
What tournaments have Link, Zelda, and Captain Falcon won? Cause Ganondorf won a tourney.
Actually, Vinnie and Fuujin have won tourneys using (to my knowledge) solo Zelda.
IDK how big the tournaments were though.
They at least had some names people could recognize.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Actual tournaments or mid tier/ low tier tournaments?
They were both MK legal.
Vinnie
Smash Master
I was unaware, I assumed you did since I remember hearing it from multiple sources. Sorry for being ignorant.
^This quote contradicts the one above it.
I just feel like Falco has no outstanding assets vs ICs. He can spike nana from certain setups, but he doesn't have any reliable tools to approach ICs. His side b camping is far from unstoppable, there are ways to grab it if it gets read. His projectiles cause almost no hitstun, and he has to space things PERFECTLY otherwise he gets shieldgrabbed.
Also, other than moves like ftilt and fullhop aerials, Falco can be found over-committing when he attacks Nana. He usually can't go for things like dash attack usmash against Nana, since it's so laggy. His best bet is to try to anti-approach 100% of the time, and be REALLY CAREFUL when following up... while still not getting read when using side B. I feel like the Falco player much be considerably better than the IC player to take games, let alone win. That's why I think this matchup is -3.
Shadocat
Smash Ace
This
Yes it is. You dont understand
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
If the Falco camps, excruciatingly carefully and repetitively, what options do Ice Climbers really have?
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Platform cancel and not be dumb like Fizzle oh and not drop grabs.
Desynced IC double pivot grab whereFixed.
Nana goes <
Papa goes >
and this is where the grab hit box is
N.... .... P
where N/P are obvious.
COVER THOSE LANDING OPTIONS.
Honestly though, ICs/Falco is 'winnable' but it's just... hard. He has tools that 'win' they just have to be used a lot more precisely than a few other characters, and he has less leeway than Marth for example because of the single CG. SHSL over ice blocks, baiting towards corners / ledges / platforms (where falco can apply enough shield pressure to be safe due to pushing them off the ground), uthrow/dthrow/bthrow often saving you from auto-**** you for grabbing me, and fthrow being relatively quick otherwise. Power shields though are just really really strong.
That's nothing new. I've seen Larry camping the SV platform going back to the days where Fiction played and would go IC's vs him. I've seen Sethlon vs Melee1 going back even further. This MU has gotten worse for Falco as the metagame has progressed and people have gotten more solid with IC's.
Naridax
Smash Journeyman
I don't see how those statements are contradictory. The first points out that despite losing the Falco players were able to put up more than a decent fight. The second one claims that match ups shouldn't be based solely on wins and losses. In other words, in the first one, DEHF implies that there is more to a match than simply it's outcome, and, in the second one, he explicitly states that match-ups should not be determined simply by the outcome of a match.
Vinylic.
Woke?
Falco/ICs was always harder for Falco at lower levels though. With precision there are holes that Falco can poke through. "Nothing new" is relatively true, but there are still quite a large stack of things that a player can use to win.
It's just one of those match ups which are really really hard to feel certain of when deciding the ratio. Multiple stocks works against Falco pretty hard (as honestly, momentum snowballs for ICs when against Falco; because if he's slightly down it is THAT much harder). There are a lot of matches where a Falco shows he can win one stock solidly, but when it extends to an entire game the results look considerably worse.
If it was possible to look at a MU at high level without considering power shields, I wouldn't see it as worse than -1.
It's just one of those match ups which are really really hard to feel certain of when deciding the ratio. Multiple stocks works against Falco pretty hard (as honestly, momentum snowballs for ICs when against Falco; because if he's slightly down it is THAT much harder). There are a lot of matches where a Falco shows he can win one stock solidly, but when it extends to an entire game the results look considerably worse.
If it was possible to look at a MU at high level without considering power shields, I wouldn't see it as worse than -1.
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