Official BBR Tier List v6

[Orion*]

why do people still mention CO18 as a notable D3? he hasn't done ANYTHING in like over a year

Smarts don't go away lol

(I don't get the argument behind spamming being a powerful tactic. If you're spamming, ie repeating the same tactic over and over, and your opponent can't find a way around it, your opponent is bad.)

I don't get the argument that somebody using the same tactic over and over is easy to defeat. Assuming the tactic is a strong working one, your opponent has half a brain, and you're using the amazing brawl engine then it's a very very viable strategy that I have seen pretty much all US top players utilize and win tournaments with.

 

[Orion*]

good. hey how does one get involved in the MU discussions for that chart?

Assming youre not in the BBR, im assuming (just a guess nobody pin me to death on this one LMAO)

1. You place well
2. You consistently are a extremely smart poster (that abides forum rules )

 

[Spelt]

Going by those rules there would be like 2 people left in the BBR.

 

[DMG]

Those people would be Omni and Overswarm

Just so they could endlessly debate about MK til the universe imploded

 

[Linkshot]

I wonder if Ivysaur's U-Tilt has a place in matchups where characters like to jump around him, like Wario.

I think that any place where you would use uTilt, Vine Whip or Shorthop uAir is a better option.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I laughed at the fact even Two infractions was Given for posting something that's been pointed out millions of times in the last few weeks by hundreds of other members only for Abraham to get in trouble. Unless him pointing out that he'll get an infraction tempted you (Cause P-4 has done this to me before) is the sole reason for the infraction.

Either way...

1. we don't like change

We're not afraid of change when we constantly ask for either MK banned or atleast Brinstar/RC removed from the Unity.

2. we are afraid certain people will quit brawl until he is unbanned

Who's "We"? Cause From what I saw in the topic ESAM made, it seems like even with people like M2K or any other MK mains gone, noone would care.

4. no region except those people in the norcal community (shoutouts to my old homeland btw) have the balls to run both mk banned and normal tourneys.

TX is hosting a few MK banned tournaments.
KTAR 6 stream for example was painful to watch... 4 MK's in Doubles and most of the matches also being MK dittos Only other match I caught a glimpse of was Delta Vs, Of course, MK.

5. people feel it would be unfair to ban MK and just leave those mk mains without their character.

Most of the MK mains usually have a secondary due to not knowing a certain MU or two so they pick up some other high tier. I still say ban MK so they can just run to their secondaries/King D3 or Diddy Kong

6. the bbr-rc doesn't have the balls to do a temp ban.

Cause they're too busy making rules that'll be broken by most of the top players and their grandparents as they still walk free by going to tournaments from Former BBR-RC members. /KTAR 6

 

[Z'zgashi]

I dont think his post was infractable. At WORST maybe just a warning as it's in the wrong place. It wasnt spam at all because it had meaning and a purpose, it wasnt there just to one up his PC or to try and turn the conversation (as the convo was literally already there). He was just giving his honest opinion and I dont see a problem with that at all.

 

[Damix91]

Why aren't you allowed to talk about banning MK? Its a legitimate topic centered around the metagame and obviously has a direct effect on the tier list. It seems a silly rule. Censorship on a gaming forum...

 

[M@v]

Those people would be Omni and Overswarm

Just so they could endlessly debate about MK til the universe imploded

Lol. This would be interesting to watch for a while....then get boring

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I think that any place where you would use uTilt, Vine Whip or Shorthop uAir is a better option.

Vine Whip is much slower to come out (frame 22 as compared to U-Tilt's frame 9) and covers a different area. Shorthop U-Air is also much slower to come out (5-frame jump startup + 12 frame U-Air), and the landing lag is definitely longer than the cooldown on U-Tilt, so those two are not always reliable options, especially against a character who can change direction on a dime, like Wario.

U-Tilt also has the advantage of completely moving Ivysaur's hurtbox off the ground, so while it isn't very safe to rely on the property, you can dodge attacks by doing it, especially if people were expecting to punish, say, a grab.

The two moves you described have a place in the matchup, but I think that relying on them to deal with Wario's spacing will get you grabbed too easily. In my head, U-Tilt should allow Ivysaur a faster anti-air to make Wario have to think twice before jumping in and grabbing her. Goes well with Vine Whip and pivot grab, for sure.

 

[Judo777]

Vine Whip is much slower to come out (frame 22 as compared to U-Tilt's frame 9) and covers a different area. Shorthop U-Air is also much slower to come out (5-frame jump startup + 12 frame U-Air), and the landing lag is definitely longer than the cooldown on U-Tilt, so those two are not always reliable options, especially against a character who can change direction on a dime, like Wario.

U-Tilt also has the advantage of completely moving Ivysaur's hurtbox off the ground, so while it isn't very safe to rely on the property, you can dodge attacks by doing it, especially if people were expecting to punish, say, a grab.

The two moves you described have a place in the matchup, but I think that relying on them to deal with Wario's spacing will get you grabbed too easily. In my head, U-Tilt should allow Ivysaur a faster anti-air to make Wario have to think twice before jumping in and grabbing her. Goes well with Vine Whip and pivot grab, for sure.

Just thinking aloud here but I dabble a little with PT (same with every character) and for reasons unexplainable I want to use utilt with ivysaur but the hitbox is soooooo narrow I can never get the move to connect for anything useful. I usually instead try to run past them and bair or go for a nair depending. Idk just some thoughts.

 

[Delta-cod]

TX is hosting a few MK banned tournaments.
KTAR 6 stream for example was painful to watch... 4 MK's in Doubles and most of the matches also being MK dittos Only other match I caught a glimpse of was Delta Vs, Of course, MK.

wtf. I didn't play a single MK at KTAR6.

 

[Zigsta]

I dont think his post was infractable. At WORST maybe just a warning as it's in the wrong place. It wasnt spam at all because it had meaning and a purpose, it wasnt there just to one up his PC or to try and turn the conversation (as the convo was literally already there). He was just giving his honest opinion and I dont see a problem with that at all.

Real talk, guys: Some mods pass out infractions more than others. It's human nature. Baiting mods with asking for infractions or saying you're drunk is an easy way to get infracted.

High-traffic threads like this will naturally get more attention, with warnings likely to happen less.

Two topics are sensitive here not because of "mod abuse" but because they often lead to flame wars even--sadly--between intelligent and skilled players: Brawl vs. Melee and MK ban-anti-ban.

PLEASE guys and gals, know what you're getting into when you post.


But on the topic of the tier list, Bowser da bess.

 

[WindMajor]

mod stuff

Don't forget about Forum Support. :3

But on the topic of the tier list, Bowser da bess.

Toon Link says otherwise.

I still think TL is mid-tier though.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I still think TL is mid-tier though.

Alright. He fits in low of high. High of mid. I think you cannot deny that.

 

[Tesh]

@ Zigsta, maybe the rest of the mods needs to actually do their jobs of give up the red names. Its not wonder you guys have to ban topics because of trolling/flaming if you only have 1 or 2 mods willing to give out more than a warning.

On topic, I feel like Pikachu and Marth need to move way down. They really aren't as good as this list would indicate. They feel like just above mid tier to me. Ike and Sonic should be up around Peach level.

 

[Kantrip]

I don't think Ike and Sonic are that high. Under Peach's tier, but not by as much as they are.

 

[IhaveSonar]

Sonic should definitely go up to, say, DK level. He basically has all the tools a top tier character needs, except for kill power. In my opinion, that is more than compensated for by his incredible speed, recovery, and ability to mindgame. Good Sonics can dance around the stage so much that racking up damage and getting that final kill blow isn't too unlikely. (His kill moves are, for the record, b-air, f-smash, and d-smash.)


I also think Samus should go up a bit. Definitely above Bowser, possibly above Mario. Zair>Everything.



That's just my input.

 

[TheSlothStyle]

I like this list but...

I just can't accept that Lucario is higher ranked than King Dedede. I just don't see why. Outside of that, I like how Wolf is stepping up his game and Toon Link being considered high tier. Good stuff BBR! You guys never dissapoint.
Check me out here:
( http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSlothStyle )

 

[MJG]

Don't forget about Forum Support. :3



Toon Link says otherwise.

I still think TL is mid-tier though.

I am actually glad that TL is High tier now. I wasn't before but it just means that TL is moving on up and that we should feel good for bringing our character up. We can only go up from here (I hope).

 

[TheSlothStyle]

Toon Link is good where he is.

I am actually glad that TL is High tier now. I wasn't before but it just means that TL is moving on up and that we should feel good for bringing our character up. We can only go up from here (I hope).

The highest I see Toon Link going up is past Game and Watch and Zero Suit Samus, but anything higher wouldn't seem right. Don't get me wrong Toon Link is a beast, but I just don't see him as a Top Tier Character.

 

[Ussi]

:| does anyone know 2 Sonics got 17th at KTAR6? (and its not even espy or X)

 

[Delta-cod]

Does anyone know a Yoshi got 9th at KTAR6? (and its not even the Blood God)

 

[~Firefly~]

I heard the scrub didn't even have to play any Metaknights. *ignore*

 

[Espy Rose]

:| does anyone know 2 Sonics got 17th at KTAR6? (and its not even espy or X)

A Sonic on the West Coast recently also did exceptionally well.

Sonic's results are being as consistent as they've always been, really.
He's still better than Peach.

 

[BSP]

My question is how peach is in the same tier as wolf and fox

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Sonic isn't "better than Peach". Peach is worse than Sonic.

 

[Juushichi]

Sonic isn't "better than Peach". Peach is worse than Sonic.

It's not to-may-to. It's to-mah-to.

 

[Ripple]

It's not to-may-to. It's to-mah-to.

except in this case, there is a difference

 

[Espy Rose]

Sonic's still better than Peach, Gheb.

 

[Deleted member]

But...he didn't really disagree with you.

 

[Espy Rose]

Yeah, but he's being Gheb about it.

 

[Kantrip]

The difference is that with the statement "sonic is better than peach", it implies that sonic should rise until he surpasses peach. In reality, peach should drop to under sonic.

"Peach is worse than sonic".

 

[Judo777]

So it turns out Fox actually has the best DJ in the game by a very small amount. Then Sheik, then Falco, tho I must say the difference between all 3 of them is negligible. Sheik gets such a tiny height advantage over Falco its not important. They all 3 reach their max height at essentially the same time but Foxes is a tiny bit taller than Sheiks, who's is a VERY tiny bit taller than Falcos.

This excludes Yoshi who obviously has the best DJ in the game. And obviously the earthbound boys have higher DJs also but theirs isn't near as good IMO.

Crap I forgot about Squirtle. From my not as in depth analysis Squirtle's appears to be identical to Sheiks. Essentially the difference between Falcos and Sheiks is so negligible that I could be wrong and they could be identical. So if you want a simplified form Fox is the only one that has a decently better DJ than the other 3 I listed but even his is almost negligible, his is slightly more obvious however.

 

[Espy Rose]

The difference is that with the statement "sonic is better than peach", it implies that sonic should rise until he surpasses peach. In reality, peach should drop to under sonic.

"Peach is worse than sonic".

Sonic being above where Peach is, along with whoever else he climbs over, sounds pretty reasonable to me.
In that case, Sonic is not only better than Peach.

He's better than DK, Pit, Kirby, and ROB too.
Maybe even Wolf, though I wouldn't go too far with that one just yet.

 

[Deleted member]

Sonic being above where Peach is, along with whoever else he climbs over, sounds pretty reasonable to me.
In that case, Sonic is not only better than Peach.

He's better than DK, Pit, Kirby, and ROB too.
Maybe even Wolf, though I wouldn't go too far with that one just yet.

Don't get too excited, now.

 

[Tesh]

So it turns out Fox actually has the best DJ in the game by a very small amount. Then Sheik, then Falco, tho I must say the difference between all 3 of them is negligible. Sheik gets such a tiny height advantage over Falco its not important. They all 3 reach their max height at essentially the same time but Foxes is a tiny bit taller than Sheiks, who's is a VERY tiny bit taller than Falcos.

This excludes Yoshi who obviously has the best DJ in the game. And obviously the earthbound boys have higher DJs also but theirs isn't near as good IMO.

Crap I forgot about Squirtle. From my not as in depth analysis Squirtle's appears to be identical to Sheiks. Essentially the difference between Falcos and Sheiks is so negligible that I could be wrong and they could be identical. So if you want a simplified form Fox is the only one that has a decently better DJ than the other 3 I listed but even his is almost negligible, his is slightly more obvious however.

What exactly do you mean by best? You already said you don't mean height, so are you talking about speed+height?

 

[Judo777]

What exactly do you mean by best? You already said you don't mean height, so are you talking about speed+height?

yea how quickly the get to max height combined with overall height.

 

[Tesh]

iono if that makes it best though, i guess it depends on the moveset, but some characters with slow jumps and quick aerials have the luxury of being able to retreat aerials UP

 

[IhaveSonar]

How do ZSS's and Rob's double jumps compare to those above? They're pretty darn good as well.