Official BBR Tier List v5

[fkacyan]

I'd love it if Falcos would jump at me to try to land a laser next to me as they land

Timing that **** is just asking to get hit.

I'm talking about reliable, consistent approaches that are essentially always safe. Honestly the only characters I can think of that have this are Snake and Diddy.

It's pretty obvious a lot of you spend too much time looking at frame data and too little time actually looking at the context and positioning within which these moves will be used.

EDIT: If retreating moves are safe on shield, that's completely irrelevant to my point, which is that you can't just walk up and hit them.

 

[Spelt]

what????? lol

yeah this was decided on like 2 years ago.

 

[fkacyan]

yeah this was decided on like 2 years ago.

Why is ADHD in your avatar

 

[Conviction]

To defend thio I do believe in his original post he did say bar projectiles. He just didn't mention it in his revision post.

Also the positional advantage dealing with frame advantage is also irrelevant to conversation because its freaking impossible to test. Or rather it like impossible to get data on.

Ok, Fox's Bair isn't a projectile. Also Thio, I can consistently Bair and be safe, not only do I have the smallest frame disadv. but shield push back as well.

Also jiggz over zelda.

If jiggz gets the percent lead she can at least edge camp effectively.

 

[Spelt]

Why is ADHD in your avatar

ADHD is a vampire? Does he play kitten poker?

 

[fkacyan]

Ok, Fox's Bair isn't a projectile. Also Thio, I can consistently Bair and be safe, not only do I have the smallest frame disadv. but shield push back as well.

Also jiggz over zelda.

If jiggz gets the percent lead she can at least edge camp effectively.

You're going to jump at my shield

and bair

...

You're either trolling me or you need to be in special ed.

EDIT: Maybe you missed the part where I said that frame data is only part of the equation? Aerials without disjoints are unsafe in almost all cases as an approach.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I'd say Zelda > Jigglypuff.

At least Zelda can kinda...sorta...occasionally force an approach/weakly attempt to tack on damage from a distance, and if she ever manages to gain the lead her moveset starts to work...better.

Jigglypuff can run away if she gets the lead, but no matter what she has to put herself at risk to attempt to get the lead. This why being the character who arguably takes the biggest risk closing the distance due to weight + broken shield fears (however remote chance that is) A crappy long distance option is better than no long distance option at all.

But frankly: it's just comparing two different types of animal dung at this point.

 

[Conviction]

Please Thio tell me why I'm trolling or in special ed, when I pull this over everyone I play and that all the other Foxes find success with Bair?

Maybe you are the one in special ed.

EDIT: Love to stay and chat about my special needs but it's time for drumline practice.

 

[T-block]

I'd say Zelda > Jigglypuff.

At least Zelda can kinda...sorta...occasionally force an approach/weakly attempt to tack on damage from a distance, and if she ever manages to gain the lead her moveset starts to work...better.

Jigglypuff can run away if she gets the lead, but no matter what she has to put herself at risk to attempt to get the lead. This why being the character who arguably takes the biggest risk closing the distance due to weight + broken shield fears (however remote chance that is) A crappy long distance option is better than no long distance option at all.

But frankly: it's just comparing two different types of animal dung at this point.

Din's might as well not exist at long range. When the opponent can dodge the release on reaction, it can't really be labelled as "pressure".

 

[fkacyan]

Please Thio tell me why I'm trolling or in special ed, when I pull this over everyone I play and that all the other Foxes find success with Bair?

Maybe you are the one in special ed.

EDIT: Love to stay and chat about my special needs but it's time for drumline practice.

In every high level match I've seen a fox in (Read: When I watch TKD videos), he's not bairing at people to approach.

 

[Ishiey]

Not sure if you guys are serious...
Please do elaborate.

I know this isn't solid reasoning, but when I see videos of a good Zelda vs another good player (that probably doesn't really know the MU, but whatever) it's much more impressive than videos of Link/Jigglypuff vs good players, probably Falcon as well. Maybe Riot is just significantly better than any of the Link/Jiggz mains that I've seen, idk.

Are there any good videos of top Link/Jigglypuff players that someone can link in here?

 

[da K.I.D.]

In every high level match I've seen a fox in (Read: When I watch TKD videos), he's not bairing at people to approach.

you sure about that? Id be Inclined to disagree, seeing as my fox started doing Full jump cross over bairs because of watching tkd vids...

I know this isn't solid reasoning, but when I see videos of a good Zelda vs another good player (that probably doesn't really know the MU, but whatever) it's much more impressive than videos of Link/Jigglypuff vs good players, probably Falcon as well. Maybe Riot is just significantly better than any of the Link/Jiggz mains that I've seen, idk.

Are there any good videos of top Link/Jigglypuff players that someone can link in here?

every single solitary jpuff player plays the same, the only difference between good ones and bad ones is spacing.

as far as vids go.

i think polt has some good puff vids up agaiinst zigstas bowser.

and for link, was kirin vs chibo recorded?

 

[RATED]

Counter argument.
**** top tier. Everyone know's they **** at tournament. Who cares about characters that are not going to change.

Now, mid and low tier. That's interesting. Sonic thought bottom tier, now in mid tier a couple years later. Mid&Low is dynamic and always changing. Far more interesting.

Plus, mid/low provide us with other characters to prevent us from growing bored of this game in 6 months.

Late argument( I couldnt find the post lol)


I think you are just falling in the "advance the metagame" syndrome that some people in this boards have.

Some characters in the Mid tiers are interesting like you say Sonic and Fox.

If you just get bored in a few months, it means that you don't have enough drive to play this game in tournaments.

 

[fkacyan]

you sure about that? Id be Inclined to disagree, seeing as my fox started doing Full jump cross over bairs because of watching tkd vids...

Link me matches of him doing this to approach a person, then, because I'm not seeing it.

 

[Reizilla]

The hell are you even arguing about? NObody that cares about winning cares about approaching.

 

[DMG]

Every TKD clip in existence:

Laser Laser SH Laser Jump/DJ/Shine/air stall bull**** that everyone craps their pants about for some reason "OMG can't stop Fox from going above me" RUN to other side LASER LASER

 

[fkacyan]

The hell are you even arguing about? NObody that cares about winning cares about approaching.

*headdesk*

And the award for Missing the Point of What I Was Saying Completely goes to...!

 

[Reizilla]

So other than loving to *****, what IS your point?

 

[fkacyan]

So other than loving to *****, what IS your point?

You can go back and read what I was addressing. I'm not interested in rehashing the entire discussion for somebody who enjoys and uses an avatar from that MLP crap.

Spoiler

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Its so funny to see 1 person making a point and 1000s of idiots blabbering random **** about it.

Go Thio looool

 

[Reizilla]

Obviously no one else got it because you've been taken entirely out of context by nearly everyone answering your question.

 

[fkacyan]

Obviously no one else got it because you've been taken entirely out of context by nearly everyone answering your question.

So go back and read the context. Do I look like I a give a **** if some random kid on the internet understands what I said?

 

[Reizilla]

You're trying really hard to make a point, so it would seem so.

 

[Alphicans]

The point seemed fairly obvious...

 

[_Kain_]

You're trying really hard to make a point, so it would seem so.

You along with the other 1000 ppl who don't get what he's saying look stupid. Just saying

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Hahahaha love this thread

 

[Reizilla]

I guess I'll fit right in in this thread then ^_^

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

wrong thread lol

 

[Ishiey]

every single solitary jpuff player plays the same, the only difference between good ones and bad ones is spacing.

as far as vids go.

i think polt has some good puff vids up agaiinst zigstas bowser.

and for link, was kirin vs chibo recorded?

I suppose that's close enough to the truth on Jigglypuff. Anyways, I've seen Polt's matches, just watched them again to make sure, and I'm unimpressed. They were friendlies, and judging by the gameplay I don't think they were too serious. Couldn't find Kirin vs Chibo on youtube.

How does Jigglypuff reliably kill people? Fair, dash attack, usmash/DACUS? Fair is rarely fresh enough to kill unless you're taking someone offstage already, dash attack... I guess, and usmash/DACUS is really slow for a move with meh kill power :/ Rest doesn't fall into the category of "reliable kill move".

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Din's might as well not exist at long range. When the opponent can dodge the release on reaction, it can't really be labelled as "pressure".

As I said: comparing two different types of animal dung by this point.

Zelda has "projectile pressure", Dtilt and Dsmash stuff, stale Usmash for damage, and next to nothing else.

Jigglypuff has Dair -> Rest attempts, aerial spacing, and next to nothing else.

 

[san.]

There is also dair to utilt. Slightly delayed dair has more combo potential depending on when we land and when the last hit of dair hit someone.

Most of Jigglypuff's sourspot aerials can lead to an easy fair right afterwards.

Jigglypuff should be grabbing a lot, and should be using all of her aerials, so fair shouldn't be completely stale.

You also have to consider where Jigglypuff will be hitting the opponent. Killing from center stage is difficult but Jiggs has the capability to get hits near the edge/offstage.


Rest is not reliable.
Polt's Jiggs isn't that good, but he does have decent spacing.

 

[Clai]

Maybe I'm dumb but am I the only person that thinks that how boring a character is to play might have a baring on why they don't have many results? Like I could be wrong but I think Kirby is one of the least fun characters to play (probably my bottom 5) and there are much better characters to play with a similar style (not to mention more fun).

Whaaaaaaat? Kirby is the trolliest character ever:

• Walk around using the crouch walk to space
• Duck under every move there is
• Deny everything else with crazy disjointed feet
• Punish whiffed attacks with F-Smash
• HIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!

 

[Spelt]

There is also dair to utilt. Slightly delayed dair has more combo potential depending on when we land and when the last hit of dair hit someone.

Most of Jigglypuff's sourspot aerials can lead to an easy fair right afterwards.

Jigglypuff should be grabbing a lot, and should be using all of her aerials, so fair shouldn't be completely stale.

You also have to consider where Jigglypuff will be hitting the opponent. Killing from center stage is difficult but Jiggs has the capability to get hits near the edge/offstage.


Rest is not reliable.
Polt's Jiggs isn't that good, but he does have decent spacing.

also, jigg's dash grab is amazing.
which creates good mixup opportunities to kill with dash attack.

 

[san.]

It is? That's nice. I neever dash grab with Jiggs because I always want to shield.

 

[Spelt]

Yup.
And i hear boost grabbing makes it even better.

 

[phi1ny3]

I love jigglypuff nair, at least the weak hit of it.

 

[C.J.]

I love how jiggly's nair beats falco's phantasm almost every time. =)

 

[Steam]

Whaaaaaaat? Kirby is the trolliest character ever:

• Walk around using the crouch walk to space
• Duck under every move there is
• Deny everything else with crazy disjointed feet
• Punish whiffed attacks with F-Smash
• HIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!

kirby is immune to jab cancels because his landing animation flattens him. soooo gaaaaaayyyyy

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Lucas' D-tilt lock hits on the ground! :D

 

[Kantrip]

Bananas and DSmash hit on the ground! :D