Llumys
Smash Champion
I laughed hard.So is his full charged neutral b
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Official BBR Tier List v5
- Thread starter Marc
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Steam
Smash Hero
I wish my character's neutral B did that...So is his full charged neutral b
@Ryu- what move does that? :0
Browny
Smash Hater
No one in wofl boards answered me (hate)
but isnt falcos jab1 adv on shield?
Also lucarios fair/ftilt 2 stocks down 180% etc is probably adv on shield.
but isnt falcos jab1 adv on shield?
Also lucarios fair/ftilt 2 stocks down 180% etc is probably adv on shield.
Steam
Smash Hero
lucario ftilt was like -5 in that situation iirc.
Tagxy
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2007
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- 1,482
The bolded part does not fit the context of this specific set. TKD had won earlier in the day as chuee mentioned with MK. In addition afterwards they did do Fox dittos in friendlies, and TKD was winning. Outside that it just seems silly to assume TKD specifically wouldnt be one of the toughest people in the nation to use fox against, supported by the fact that he took a set off trevonte while Bardull, Terry, and Tyrant could not (he beat tyrant on rainbow cruise). For some moralistic reason he didnt want to use Fox against Trevonte or Larry even though hed had success previously against both (his wario ended up getting 3 stocked by larry).
Not to say your scenario would never be true, but it doesnt fit this one. Id suggest becoming more informed about trevonte before making judgements on his skill. Given west coasts lack of presence here we have several players that tend to fly under the radar.
roooflSo is his full charged neutral b
_Kain_
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2009
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- 2,154
He beat Trevonte in Fox Dittos first set
Orion*
Smash Researcher
It's all the upB
LOLIdunno, Luigi should be better than D3 too. D3 and Luigi both get in some good damage when they get in, but both are stupidly slow getting there. At least Luigi's got the killpower to boot.
This
This
Tagxy
Smash Lord
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Those were friendlies after the set. I was there to watch it
Fuujin
Smash Champion
Not sure if you guys are serious...
Please do elaborate.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
_Kain_
Smash Champion
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No we saw it on livestream he beat him in Fox Dittos in tournament in Winners knocking him into losers, then in losers he went MK and lostThose were friendlies after the set. I was there to watch it
Conviction
Human Nature
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Fox's bair too
Conviction
Human Nature
LOL I wish, Fox's Bair has -2 adv.
We can frametrap though if they try to grab us. Stopping them with a Utilt or jab.
We can frametrap though if they try to grab us. Stopping them with a Utilt or jab.
Meta Knight can do it with his F-Tilt, D-Tilt, Up-B, glide attack, F-Smash, U-Air...Almost every character's spotdodge can accomplish this with a little bit of thought (and often without any, too!).
It's not that weird to see it used in competitive play.
It's not that weird to see it used in competitive play.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Ahh iblis, thanks for clarifying that. I jsut heard someone say it once LOL
Conviction
Human Nature
I mean I guess you can count that for against Thio though, I can safely approach and the retreat or just stuff the punish for my Bair.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
For the record, -2 is amazing on shield. ZSS' dsmash is -5 adv and the only characters that can beat it are characters with broken OOS moves like Marth, Bowser, and Mario. (This doesn't really count as an approach, I'm just saying -5 is pretty damn good so -2 is obviously good)
While it doesn't take much away from how safe it is, you have to remember that ZSS's D-Smash has a great deal of range, too, which makes it even harder to punish in most situations.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
ZSS' dsmash also has 21 IASA frames, it's a damn stupid move LOL
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
I think Wolf's fully retreat Fair and Bair on shield have good advantage on shield. I know shine causes disadvantage to whoever we shine, but Wolf can only Dtilt or Jab at best (Unless they have landing penalty).
Horizontal distance doesn't affect frame advantage. It only affects what characters can do with the frame (dis)advantage. Granted, Wolf's great range on many moves allow him to use it really well, but it doesn't give him extra frame advantage.
Unless you're just saying "advantage" as in positioning advantage, which would be true, but not relevant to the topic at hand.
Framewise no, unless you are talking about how many frames it would take for someone to shield drop and then move themselves towards where you are now located.
If you Fair/Bair a shield at the perfect height, you never have frame advantage. But retreating it can make you safe because it takes too long to shield drop and run over there.
Edit: What reflex said. From a frame perspective, no. From a positional view, yes. But that's different from frame advantage on shield.
If you Fair/Bair a shield at the perfect height, you never have frame advantage. But retreating it can make you safe because it takes too long to shield drop and run over there.
Edit: What reflex said. From a frame perspective, no. From a positional view, yes. But that's different from frame advantage on shield.
emm...no
well fair at least
bair is always shieldgrabable if its spaced badly so thats -6 at least.
darn you DMG and reflex :O
Jigglypuff is better. Jigglypuff can actually avoid the things sent in her direction, can run away pretty well, has good potential in being unpredictable, and has a generally solid defensive game (as in, being in her shield, for instance).
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Jigglypuff can time people out better. So I say Jiggz.
zeldasmash
Smash Lord
Jiggs is better than Zelda imo.
T-block
B2B TST
Agreed on Jiggs being better.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Yeah so many people forget that position makes a lot of difference between what's safe on block and what isn't.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
just to throw out another thing to put that guy who said nothing is positive on shield down, arrow loop is positive on shield.
but ya positive on shield and safe on shield are pretty different. i mean like seagull said, wolf's bair (with proper spacing) is safe on shield, but if he were to use it falling into someone trying to get a frame trap grab or something, wouldn't happen. and then you have falco's lazer, which is positive on shield and safe because of said advantage but only if you take advantage of the frame trap.
but ya positive on shield and safe on shield are pretty different. i mean like seagull said, wolf's bair (with proper spacing) is safe on shield, but if he were to use it falling into someone trying to get a frame trap grab or something, wouldn't happen. and then you have falco's lazer, which is positive on shield and safe because of said advantage but only if you take advantage of the frame trap.
Judo777
Smash Master
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- Sep 9, 2008
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To defend thio I do believe in his original post he did say bar projectiles. He just didn't mention it in his revision post.
Also the positional advantage dealing with frame advantage is also irrelevant to conversation because its freaking impossible to test. Or rather it like impossible to get data on.
Also the positional advantage dealing with frame advantage is also irrelevant to conversation because its freaking impossible to test. Or rather it like impossible to get data on.
Judo777
Smash Master
- Joined
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No no no that's not what I meant. What you are describing is the only way to get an affirmative answer on whether stuff is punishable. I'm referring to the idea I had for trying to get a measurement of distance that we can figure stuff on based solely on distance of moves and frame data of moves AND the distance which moves cover as well as the speed at which a character moves.
So for instance say Sheiks DA cover 26 units after input. Marth is 15 units away after a fair with a frame advantage of X. Sheik can therefore shield drop and DA as long as shield drop plus DA has less than X frames because it covers 26 units.
Granted numbers are made up but I thought it could be extremely valuable. It just seems like it would be way too hard.
We already measure distance in terms of Squirtles, if I'm not mistaken.
Judo777
Smash Master
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what????? lolWe already measure distance in terms of Squirtles, if I'm not mistaken.
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