Jar.
Smash Cadet
Where did GW go? D:
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Official BBR Tier List v5
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
- Status
I'm fairly certain the implication by almost everybody is that their stagelist is inferior to ours. Maybe not you, but almost everybody else.
If people want to construct regional tierlists and not global tierlists (Because a match can go to the same stages as on the Japanese ruleset), then what should be done is a by-stage tierlist which can then be averaged based on the stagelist in question.
The community is far too lazy to do the right thing, though.
I don't know anything about Trevonte. Lets be real. How big of a skill gap is there between someone who can 2 stock low percent Tyrant and someone I've never heard of. TKD is basically an M2K level player who uses a character with weaknesses. Trevonte is really good, so are Zeton and other top foxes but there's still no comparison...
Also I think Marth is better than Pika and Wario there just arent enough good marths.
Ussi
Smash Legend
Oops i always think of American results but not Europe.
Well with Europe yea Marth's results are better.
But even then without Europe. There are more good Marth players than Pikachu players.
Well with Europe yea Marth's results are better.
But even then without Europe. There are more good Marth players than Pikachu players.
T-block
B2B TST
The creation of a tier list has enough variables as it is... there's already a huge grey area when it comes to how stages should come into play when evaluating a character. Do we consider all legal stages equally, or do we consider stages with counterpicking in mind? etc. etc. So we restrict ourselves to one stagelist, and I think that's fair. Then when we look at Japan's results, we note that things will be skewed due to the difference in legal stages, and evaluate them as such.
Conversely, the tier list would not accurately represent Japan's metagame, and we're okay with that.
It's not about being lazy... it's about imposing necessary constraints to give a solid enough structure to move forward with the project.
Your idea is an interesting one though...
Conversely, the tier list would not accurately represent Japan's metagame, and we're okay with that.
It's not about being lazy... it's about imposing necessary constraints to give a solid enough structure to move forward with the project.
Your idea is an interesting one though...
zeldasmash
Smash Lord
Link and Zelda switch (she is also too high). Ness, Mario, Lucas and Samus (imo) are better than Bowser. Mario and Lucas should be tied. Wolf and DK are too low. Where is GAW and Sheilda? (note i put them in this list)So, would more people agree with something like this?
S:
A:,
B:,
C:
D:
E:
F:
Steam
Smash Hero
the reason it's hard to consider both America and Europe is that the metagames rarely interact... who knows, maybe the European marths would still place meh in the US like the US ones... Maybe they would do good. but you can't assume anything :/
but yes if you include European Results then you must include Japan. lolimar.
but yes if you include European Results then you must include Japan. lolimar.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Japan has had more interaction with the US than Europe has lollll
Steam
Smash Hero
this too.
how big are the euro tourneys that these marth's from heaven win?
also olimar is now automatically above marth if we include japan. and ICs. and Wario.
I proposed such an idea right when the matchup chart was first released, and Captains of Stagestry Raziek and BPC called the idea "immensely impractical" and "something that will never actually get finished."
They're more than willing to randomly test stages, though.
T-block
B2B TST
I'm curious.
So you would have a list for an only-Battlefield stagelist, an only-FD stagelist, etc.? Then depending on the stagelist used, somehow compile the lists from the legal stages?
How would you account for counterpicking then? I think this might actually give too much weight to stages...
So you would have a list for an only-Battlefield stagelist, an only-FD stagelist, etc.? Then depending on the stagelist used, somehow compile the lists from the legal stages?
How would you account for counterpicking then? I think this might actually give too much weight to stages...
You would make a matchup chart on a per-stage basis.
Arguably you'd have two charts in the end: A starter chart, and a counterpick chart (Which obviously includes the starters).
The end result would be that people would know a lot more about their character's actual traits, and not the stupid-*** gimmick bull**** most character boards spend their time on, more about the other characters, and more about how stages work. Really, it's just the big matchup chart but looked at on a stage-by-stage basis.
It would just take a long time and a lot of input.
It would also show which stages are actually closest to being neutral.
T-block
B2B TST
So...you're saying add a third dimension to the matchup chart. We have MK-Snake-Battlefield, MK-Snake-Halberd, etc. etc. Are we then okay with creating a tier list only from matchups?
This is exactly why I'm interested in this atm...
-Jumpman-
Smash Champion
Hatin' on Europe big time. Ally's going to a tourney in Spain next month, after that you can cry.
Bingo!
All a tier list really actually is is an evaluation of the threat level of various characters in tourney, which is the sum of their threat level on stages they can be taken to.
EDIT: Europe is slept on pretty hard, I have more respect for them now that Orion's been there a year.
Steam
Smash Hero
I'll wait for CoT5 or whatever tournament it is that some Europe people are going to.
-Jumpman-
Smash Champion
No one is going hahahaha.
He beat TKD's MK, Tyrant, and Tearbear at Winterfest.
Aside from that he hasn't been to anything big, but he has big wins on him.
edit:
steam- thats Apex 2012
M@v
Subarashii!
That's Genesis. COT5 is US/Canada
-Jumpman-
Smash Champion
Steam
Smash Hero
WHATEVER TOURNAMENT IT IS.
I will wait for it.
marth is bad.
I will wait for it.
marth is bad.
-Jumpman-
Smash Champion
Let's see if Ally places first in... about 20 days.
Hippieslayer
Smash Ace
Can I get some closure on which order peach/sonic/dk/wolf/fox/kirby place on the tierlist? So far Seagull mans reasoning seemed the best to me, but it'd be nice having a post from someone trustable like DMG and no one else.
Kinda feels like it is:
Wolf/fox/DK/Peach/Sonic/Kirby atm, but I am a scrub anyway so I have no idea. But even a scrub can tell that sonic is an overrated piece of crap character that is hardly watchable and the only character in smash more gay in himself than MK, random trips, chaingrabs, infinites, BPC and Elton John put together. Therefore he is clearly worse than at least Peach.
Kinda feels like it is:
Wolf/fox/DK/Peach/Sonic/Kirby atm, but I am a scrub anyway so I have no idea. But even a scrub can tell that sonic is an overrated piece of crap character that is hardly watchable and the only character in smash more gay in himself than MK, random trips, chaingrabs, infinites, BPC and Elton John put together. Therefore he is clearly worse than at least Peach.
Hippieslayer
Smash Ace
Conviction
Human Nature
Not sure if serious
Orion*
Smash Researcher
sig worthy LOL
He gets rewarded way to much for bull**** LMAO
Neutral air on shield to tipper fsmash baited much this past week bro?
Conviction
Human Nature
You live near NAKAT, you haven't played him I take it?I love how people don't realize why Fox seems worse than he is.
Steam
Smash Hero
isn't that move safe on shield anyways? why would you try to punish :I
Iono.
Probably because otherwise you don't hit Marth at all with a lot of characters ><
-Jumpman-
Smash Champion
Lol, it's ALWAYS falling nair.
And people try to punish it because it's usually spaced in a retreating manner, so it gives people the impression then can punish. Also, Leon always tippers.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
wow.... 30+ pages since i left. anyone wanna tell me what the current topic is?
Eddie G
Smash Hero
No, Sonic and especially Kirby do not belong above Peach. The other 3 are reasonable since their results have clearly distinguished them from her at the moment, but do Kirbys even exist anymore outside of my fellow God Kai? Sonic only had one major spike of outstanding results at Dallas. Where is the subsequent trend of results that would warrant such a long term placement?
13th at Whobo 3.
Also, there's
Also, there's
Steam
Smash Hero
sonic taking top 8 twice at a huge national can't be overlooked. it's a spike yes but it by itself is still far better than anything peach could DREAM of accomplishing. at peach's best tourney in like ever (whobo3) espy placed barely behind illmatic. and espy is still ranked over ill in texas. X also does well in WC tourneys when he attends. what more do you want lol?
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