Official BBR Tier List v5

[Steam]

snake is bad on paper? I think his damage output and survivability alone would make him amazing on paper due to risk/reward.

 

[OneCryptickilla]

2 level 9 snakes on a team = a joke
pro snake = scary

.....u just planted many doubts about me beating Fatal in the upcoming tournament. I guess ill have 2 beat as much as the computer can fight me with and eventually beat 3 level 9 snakes on a team.

 

[OneCryptickilla]

Or fail. And if i had people all the time at convienience to face instead of CPU's i would but that only happens 4 me every friday and saturday.

 

[Attila_]

.....u just planted many doubts about me beating Fatal in the upcoming tournament. I guess ill have 2 beat as much as the computer can fight me with and eventually beat 3 level 9 snakes on a team.

sorry kiddo, but there are only handful of people in america that can beat fatal, and you're not one of them.

reality is harsh.

stop wasting time with cpus, they teach you habits and don't punish them. practice your tech and play against people.

and with that, i'm off.

 

[OneCryptickilla]

sorry kiddo, but there are only handful of people in america that can beat fatal, and you're not one of them.

reality is harsh.

stop wasting time with cpus, they teach you habits and don't punish them. practice your tech and play against people.

and with that, i'm off.

Even if i lose its still for fun and any match is winnable with enough effort. Its unlikaly, but id never say anythings impossible. Either way ill try

 

[John12346]

Just do your best and stuff! When you go to a tournament, try to get a crapload of practice matches in beforehand. That way, you can get a good idea of the skill level of the other players.

It may also help if you studied up on Zelda's ATs(advanced techniques), general strategies, and stuff. That video of Zelda vs Captain Falcon(posted earlier) pretty much displayed the standard of which a Zelda main should be playing. Study up on a bit, because learning from other people is always a good way to learn your character. Of course, your goal won't just be to take that standard and rise to it; you're gonna want raise the roof on it!

Zelda's a capable character, but she's got a lot of problems. See if you can surpass them and see how you do on your first official tourney, and good luck! We'll be rooting for you!

 

[da K.I.D.]

its funny watching people that have clearly been stomped out at this game too many times to the point where theyre only source of happiness now is sucking the joy out of it for other newer, more optimistic people.

also @ OCK, youre lucky, you have a person whos possibly the best player in the country with your character, might be showing up to your tourney. make sure you talk to him a bit.

 

[John12346]

Kid's right.

Shmot, you are kind of being a Scrooge. No offense, but let up on other ppl.

 

[Llumys]

You can't get good without playing good players.

 

[OneCryptickilla]

Just do your best and stuff! When you go to a tournament, try to get a crapload of practice matches in beforehand. That way, you can get a good idea of the skill level of the other players.

It may also help if you studied up on Zelda's ATs(advanced techniques), general strategies, and stuff. That video of Zelda vs Captain Falcon(posted earlier) pretty much displayed the standard of which a Zelda main should be playing. Study up on a bit, because learning from other people is always a good way to learn your character. Of course, your goal won't just be to take that standard and rise to it; you're gonna want raise the roof on it!

Zelda's a capable character, but she's got a lot of problems. See if you can surpass them and see how you do on your first official tourney, and good luck! We'll be rooting for you!

Thanks for your support but i already learned all of zeldas advanced moves. I even learned that double telaport exploit. Her weakness is usually in air combat unless her aponent is above her, in which case she can use her a up attack in the air for a low damage ko. Ive litterally ko'd people before with only dealing 67 damage. Zelda is a medium and long range character, but can hold her own close range. Her attacks have an exeded range compared to other characters and imense strength. Her a up can beat link and toon links mid air a down. And even if shes above the enemy worst comes to worse i can use telaport to either evade or attack. Mainly avade since it is possible to still attack me even if the telaport hit but they get there attack off at that same time.

 

[phi1ny3]

Riot ftw

also imo it's low/mid skill level "theorycrafters" that have the ego problem/overoptimism bad, because they know all the good options about their character, but are either mega predictable/don't play smart most of the time and rely on absolutes of each character to determine how the match is going ton play out. I'll admit I probably would've been one of those overly optimistic people joining in if I hadn't known how competitive the game could get from watching top Melee videos (I thought I'd be totally squashed, which is why I felt good when my first time playing I got this Mario player down to his last stock or so). 2006 = good times.

I think people honestly need to be aware of how much of a minority competitive smashers are, sort of like the ratio of people who own cars is extremely lopsided, but since they're all we see here in the U.S., we take car ownership for granted often

 

[OneCryptickilla]

Riot ftw

also imo it's low/mid skill level "theorycrafters" that have the ego problem/overoptimism bad, because they know all the good options about their character, but are either mega predictable/don't play smart most of the time and rely on absolutes of each character to determine how the match is going ton play out. I'll admit I probably would've been one of those overly optimistic people joining in if I hadn't known how competitive the game could get from watching top Melee videos (I thought I'd be totally squashed, which is why I felt good when my first time playing I got this Mario player down to his last stock or so). 2006 = good times.

I think people honestly need to be aware of how much of a minority competitive smashers are, sort of like the ratio of people who own cars is extremely lopsided, but since they're all we see here in the U.S., we take car ownership for granted often

Im not over optomistic i just dont think theres an absolute chance of me winning. Truthfully im not even aming for beating him. Im just aming to reach him and do some damage. At least not lose with him still having a full stock. Snake has problems too. Same with zelda. Zelda is screwed if trying to attack from directly above. Even in air is difficult. Thats were shiek comes in if nessessary.

 

[da K.I.D.]

lol phil, big ups to 06 meleers. thats pretty much when i started too.

 

[John12346]

Actually, that was a pretty good synopsis of Zelda's strengths, so I might as well tell you why she's regarded as, well, a bad character. If you know your character's weaknesses, then you have a chance to find out ways to compensate for them.

The first weakness Zelda has is approaching an opponent. If Zelda wants to get inside with an attack, well, she doesn't have much to speak of. I think the norm for Zelda's approach is her Nair(press A in the air without any control stick input), but even then, all of her attacks are really slow and laggy and will get punished hard, y'know?

Her next weakness is her poor camping ability. I know she has Din's Fire, and you definitely should be using it from long range, of course, but the problem is that it's very easy to dodge/shield/clank with, making it kind of worthless. Even though it's not a great projectile, you're gonna want to rely on it to make the opponent come to you, as a compensation for Zelda's inability to approach. Here's the easy part, though: If you hit the opponent even ONCE with it, almost every time, they're going to write it off as threatening and come after you. So, in essence, if you get tricky enough with it, you can make them approach.

Her next issue is landing. I'm not really sure what to say about this. Just try to mix things up. Her UpB(whatever its name is...) is an efficient way to get to the ground, but don't rely on it too often. Another way to get down is to drift offstage, and go for the ledge WITHOUT using your UpB. But take care doing that, because you risk getting knocked further off the stage if you screw up.

Her last weakness is recovery. I'm sure you're done it already, but just memorize all of the angles and distances required to snap back on the ledge or land on the stage. Try not to end up under the stage, obviously.

Anyway, give it a whirl, okay?

Also, don't worry about moves where the character thrusts themselves downwards quickly from the air... those moves are generally regarded as bad moves and you'll rarely have to contend with them(except in Game and Watch's case), so don't worry about it.

Also, I guess this is also input for why Zelda's pretty low on the tier list... >___>;

 

[Llumys]

On-topic:

I'm bored, so here's what I think the list should look like.

S: Meta Knight, Snake, Diddy Kong, Falco, Ice Climbers
A: Marth, Wario, Olimar, Pikachu, King Dedede
B: Mr. Game & Watch, Lucario, Zero Suit Samus, Fox
C: Pit, Toon Link, Kirby, R.O.B., Peach, Sonic
D: Wolf, Donkey Kong, Luigi, Ike, Yoshi, Sheik, Pokémon Trainer
E: Ness, Lucas, Mario, Bowser, Samus
F: Zelda, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Link, Ganondorf

 

[OneCryptickilla]

Actually, that was a pretty good synopsis of Zelda's strengths, so I might as well tell you why she's regarded as, well, a bad character. If you know your character's weaknesses, then you have a chance to find out ways to compensate for them.

The first weakness Zelda has is approaching an opponent. If Zelda wants to get inside with an attack, well, she doesn't have much to speak of. I think the norm for Zelda's approach is her Nair(press A in the air without any control stick input), but even then, all of her attacks are really slow and laggy and will get punished hard, y'know?

Her next weakness is her poor camping ability. I know she has Din's Fire, and you definitely should be using it from long range, of course, but the problem is that it's very easy to dodge/shield/clank with, making it kind of worthless. Even though it's not a great projectile, you're gonna want to rely on it to make the opponent come to you, as a compensation for Zelda's inability to approach. Here's the easy part, though: If you hit the opponent even ONCE with it, almost every time, they're going to write it off as threatening and come after you. So, in essence, if you get tricky enough with it, you can make them approach.

Her next issue is landing. I'm not really sure what to say about this. Just try to mix things up. Her UpB(whatever its name is...) is an efficient way to get to the ground, but don't rely on it too often. Another way to get down is to drift offstage, and go for the ledge WITHOUT using your UpB. But take care doing that, because you risk getting knocked further off the stage if you screw up.

Her last weakness is recovery. I'm sure you're done it already, but just memorize all of the angles and distances required to snap back on the ledge or land on the stage. Try not to end up under the stage, obviously.

Anyway, give it a whirl, okay?

Also, don't worry about moves where the character thrusts themselves downwards quickly from the air... those moves are generally regarded as bad moves and you'll rarely have to contend with them(except in Game and Watch's case), so don't worry about it.

Also, I guess this is also input for why Zelda's pretty low on the tier list... >___>;

True. But what ive noticed with Zelda is players make the mistake of shielding the initial plast of her power a over attacks. Her a over and a up last more than a second so after they shield it quickly to try and avoid the attack there surprised when there still being hit. Ive learned the range and limitations of dins fire and i dont use it for attack only. It can be used as a defence to deflect objects and stop rush attacks such as Ikes charge rush and foxes b over. It stops them in there tracks. Also, i noticed if u keep dins fire going slightly beyond the player and blow it up from its max distance were it will still hit, the player already shielded thinking u would have blown it up. It doesnt always work but it will trip up some players.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

C: Pit, Toon Link, Kirby, R.O.B., Peach, Sonic
D: Wolf, Donkey Kong, Luigi, Ike, Yoshi, Sheik, Pokémon Trainer

Oh boy.......

 

[Llumys]

That was the sort of reaction I was expecting to get, hehe. I don't feel like backing up my opinions, mostly because my reasoning is most likely awful, but I'd love to see why people disagree with them.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

More or less when Pit and Wolf aren't where they should be we get about 2+ pages about why they should be here or there and pass other characters.

 

[Llumys]

I'm not against that happening. ^^;

Also, OneCryptickilla seems like a really convincing troll.

 

[OneCryptickilla]

I'm not against that happening. ^^;

Also, OneCryptickilla seems like a really convincing troll.

Lol

 

[Steam]

On-topic:

I'm bored, so here's what I think the list should look like.

S: Meta Knight, Snake, Diddy Kong, Falco, Ice Climbers
A: Marth, Wario, Olimar, Pikachu, King Dedede
B: Mr. Game & Watch, Lucario, Zero Suit Samus, Fox
C: Pit, Toon Link, Kirby, R.O.B., Peach, Sonic
D: Wolf, Donkey Kong, Luigi, Ike, Yoshi, Sheik, Pokémon Trainer
E: Ness, Lucas, Mario, Bowser, Samus
F: Zelda, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Link, Ganondorf

why marth and wario above olimar and pikachu? olimar should probably be 5th. AT LEAST 6th

and GW should be below lucario and ZSS

Pit is way too high. fox is probably a bit too high. peach is worse than sonic and maybe wolf. Zelda is too high.

 

[John12346]

Alright, so you do know how to be tricky with Din's Fire. That's actually exactly how you're supposed to use them; in ways that they'll knock the opponent no matter how you use them.

Also, the ideal moves for Zelda to use at close range are her Usmash(tap up and hit A), Dsmash(tap down and hit A), and Dtilt(hold down and hit A). Her Dtilt is really fast and trips opponents, comboing into, surprise, Dsmash! You're also gonna want to throw in a grab here and there to trick the opponent, but watch out, because it's slow as molasses.

Her Fsmash(tap sideways and hit A) isn't generally a good idea, though. It's slow, and can be escaped even if you hit with it, which kind of sucks. Luckily, her Usmash cannot be escaped if you hit with it, plus it can be done out of a dash, so in any scenario where you think Fsmash is the move to use, dash > Usmash can be used instead!

Also, Llumys, no, most new players go in thinking that some specific moves of their character are good. And regardless of whether OCK is or isn't a troll, I'm trying to co-main Zelda anyway, because I think there may actually be more to her than we all see on the surface, so I want to indulge myself while I'm at it, y'know?

 

[OneCryptickilla]

Alright, so you do know how to be tricky with Din's Fire. That's actually exactly how you're supposed to use them; in ways that they'll knock the opponent no matter how you use them.

Also, the ideal moves for Zelda to use at close range are her Usmash(tap up and hit A), Dsmash(tap down and hit A), and Dtilt(hold down and hit A). Her Dtilt is really fast and trips opponents, comboing into, surprise, Dsmash! You're also gonna want to throw in a grab here and there to trick the opponent, but watch out, because it's slow as molasses.

Her Fsmash(tap sideways and hit A) isn't generally a good idea, though. It's slow, and can be escaped even if you hit with it, which kind of sucks. Luckily, her Usmash cannot be escaped if you hit with it, plus it can be done out of a dash, so in any scenario where you think Fsmash is the move to use, dash > Usmash can be used instead!

Also, Llumys, no, most new players go in thinking that some specific moves of their character are good. And regardless of whether OCK is or isn't a troll, I'm trying to co-main Zelda anyway, because I think there may actually be more to her than we all see on the surface, so I want to indulge myself while I'm at it, y'know?

Lol i understand Umash and all of that from kinda common sense but i use a gamecube controler i just say c stick up. And i do use umash when i dash towards them. Its fast and does damage. Somereason when doing this, it looks like zelda slides into the oponent when i dash and then umash.

 

[Llumys]

@Steam
Meh. I think Wario and Marth are both theoretically better than Olimar, but not by much. Either way, I don't really care. I've mained Olimar since a month after the game's release, and I'm still observing as his metagame evolves, even though I no longer play, but I still don't think he's top 6 material; Wario & Marth just need to be represented more.

G&W being below ZSS and and Lucario is reasonable, but I think Fox belongs where I put him. Peach and Sonic are fine, too. Wolf and Zelda? I don't know. This is hypocritical, yes, but you're not giving me anything work with.

@John12345
That's why I said he's probably a convincing troll.

edit: He's definitely a troll.

 

[OneCryptickilla]

...or is it called Utilt?

 

[John12346]

Cstick is the stick you use for Smash moves, not Tilt moves.

And I mean, when you're close to an opponent, instead of using Fsmash, flicking the control stick towards the opponent to take a small dash towards them, followed by a Usmash by hitting up on the Cstick will suffice much better.

 

[OneCryptickilla]

Yes thats what i ment. Lol sorry i dont know the names of tactics or moves i just know how to use effective combinations. I already do that. But i wouldnt say A dash isng good enough if used correctly i can a dash sidestep then c stick up and by then depending on the character i might even be able to slightly jump and do my a up attack for a finisher but speed is essential. If step 1 fails retreat and replan.

 

[John12346]

Well, just do what you can at the tourney, and stuff. She's your character, not mine. Like I said, though, good luck and stuff!

Anyway, we should probably get back on topic.

Jigglybutt is no good and is worse than everyone in the game except Ganon. Anyone disagree?

 

[Kantrip]

I do, captain falcon is just as limited as ganon and should be 2nd last, followed then by jiggly.

 

[OneCryptickilla]

Well, just do what you can at the tourney, and stuff. She's your character, not mine. Like I said, though, good luck and stuff!

Anyway, we should probably get back on topic.

Jigglybutt is no good and is worse than everyone in the game except Ganon. Anyone disagree?

Yes i agree. Jigglypuff is actually useless on ground but is light enough to kinda hover and jump slightly before attacks. His in air attacks do massive damage and he can easliy follow a character trying to get back on the map kill him and use his remaining jumps to get himself to the ledge.

 

[Ishiey]

On-topic:

I'm bored, so here's what I think the list should look like.

S: Meta Knight, Snake, Diddy Kong, Falco, Ice Climbers
A: Marth, Wario, Olimar, Pikachu, King Dedede
B: Mr. Game & Watch, Lucario, Zero Suit Samus, Fox
C: Pit, Toon Link, Kirby, R.O.B., Peach, Sonic
D: Wolf, Donkey Kong, Luigi, Ike, Yoshi, Sheik, Pokémon Trainer
E: Ness, Lucas, Mario, Bowser, Samus
F: Zelda, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Link, Ganondorf

You have got to be joking.








































Why the **** are there other characters in the same tier as MK?

@ Jiggs talk: Trade hits with her whenever she tries to do something, kill her at half the % that she kills you. I really want to believe that she's not THAT bad, but... yeah... some good attributes, but she really cannot work around her lack of disjoints + light weight combo. Second worst, idk, plausible, but sharing a tier with Ganon/Link/CF is something I definitely support.

Oh yeah, I didn't put Zelda in that list. Zelda sucks too, but I think she should be 5th from last, in a tier above the four characters I listed in bottom. My reasoning is... Riot is awesome. Yeah, that sounds about right.

 

[Llumys]

I put Meta Knight in a tier with other characters simply because I figured it'd suck to be lonely on top of being hated.

 

[Shaya]

why marth and wario above olimar and pikachu? olimar should probably be 5th. AT LEAST 6th

Marth is a better character than pikachu and olimar.

 

[OneCryptickilla]

Marth is a better character than pikachu and olimar.

I wouldnt say olimar. Olimar is very underestimated but can deal massive damage fast.

 

[Spelt]

@ Jiggs talk: Trade hits with her whenever she tries to do something, kill her at half the % that she kills you. I really want to believe that she's not THAT bad, but... yeah... some good attributes, but she really cannot work around her lack of disjoints + light weight combo. Second worst, idk, plausible, but sharing a tier with Ganon/Link/CF is something I definitely support.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.
lack of disjoints?
Have you seen her bair lately?

 

[John12346]

Jigglypuff's Bair has a lot of range, no disjoint.

Keep in mind Jigglypuff's foot, and subsequently her hurtbox extends really far out when she Bairs.

 

[Browny]

 

[Spelt]

You're forgetting hurtboxes in this game are super tiny.
And the hitbox extends way beyond her physical body.
If I could find the picture of it I'd post it.
Browny probably knows where it is.



Lol, ninja'd

 

[Browny]

The hitbox is out on this frame, THIS is the disjoint.

Proof that it hit.

So that enormous disjoint only exists for maybe 1 frame, but thats all it takes to completely beat other attacks.