Official BBR Tier List v5

[Supermodel From Paris]

I have already decided to set my phaser to "laugh" in preparation for the BBR mu list.

 

[Browny]

satisfied...

Yeah thats probably the last emotion I'll feel about this chart.

 

[phi1ny3]

Pika 4 god tier

 

[Kewkky]

I have already decided to set my phaser to "laugh" in preparation for the BBR mu list.

satisfied...

Yeah thats probably the last emotion I'll feel about this chart.

Can't please them all, am I right? Much less two obvious BBR haters.

 

[Steam]

Pika 4 god tier

more like god 4 pika tier

 

[demonictoonlink]

I always thought it was stupid when people put MK in god tier. It should go:

MK

God tier

ZSS

Snake

Toon Link

Falco

Ike/ Sonic

/lucas

 

[Shaya]

Typical haters gonna hate.

Especially browny.
Because he doesn't even understand how not to hate.

 

[Remzi]

In fact, I was just wondering why R.O.B. is in the very middle of the tiers. Before I get into what I mean, allow me to first put out there that I have been playing for years, and I have watched MANY videos of the tournament masters.

My brother and I found out, through years of play, literally EVERY advanced technique in the game, except the Glide Toss, which we stumbled upon, but wrote off as simply hilarious. I was surprised to find that all the wacky observations we have encountered and adapted are actually defined in the glossary in the sticky topic above! Three of the particularly surprising terms that I could not believe had been widely known and utilized were the Glancing Blow (I just thought I had a glitchy game) and that effect where recovering at the right time from attacks that sent you flying results in an upward boost if you jump out/air dodge/whatever early enough (I cannot remember what it was called in the sticky), and the Glide Toss.

Now, I have been using R.O.B. against my brother lately, and he cannot seem to beat me. We think we know why, and we think it puts R.O.B. at the top of the tiers. I will be brief. R.O.B. has his air neutral. We call it 'The Spin.' It has that special hitbox like a sword, hence it goes right through anything except an attack with that same type of hitbox. It does 17% max, is relatively fast executing, has basically instant recovery on a barrier cancel, and is quite massive, killing at rather low percentages.

If he misses, he can just do his Ajab if the opponent tries to retaliate, or shield/roll. I am telling you, R.O.B.f is a crazy meat mountain who crushes bones with many attacks doing 15+%, survives to insane damages thanks to his weight, and has ridiculous horizontal recovery (Double Jump, Up B, Aerial, ANOTHER Up B, ARE YOU SERIOUS, aerial).

Next, check his roll. It goes like half screen. It makes him rather fast, nearly eliminating his speed problem on the ground, and a great character when it comes to the defensive game. It pretty much eliminates the need for his Glide Toss, which, with R.O.B., who needs to do most of his attacking from hops, is pretty much useless already unless you are looking to smash attack. DACUS'ing, however, in my opinion, is also a bad idea, because, in the time and damage it takes you to actually land a smash, you could have just used The Flip and killed you opponent by then.

Even though he has to fight mostly in the air, 3 of his 4 air attacks are pretty fast, and are quite massive. A major advantage he has is that nearly all his attacks move the opponent considerably, and can topple him from 0%, so his opponent gets little to no counterattack opportunity.

The only explanation I can find for why he is low on the tiers is that no one has used him seriously. I think he really keeps up, if not tops, the top tier characters.

I really do not like to simply shoot my mouth, and I am not one who thinks it right to shower a character in encomium, and never actually prove anything. Is there online for this somewhere, or is that simply wishful thinking? If not, please do not yell at me and stuff until you at least check out The Flip. Goes right through projectiles, goes right through attacks, goes right through faces. Please just give R.O.B. another shot and tell me what you thnk.

Final Comment: People have a tendency to think that posts from newcomers to a board but veterans of its respective game are saying they are better than everyone else, regardles of what the post actually says. Please note that I did not say 'I am better than you' or 'R.O.B. is better than Meta Knight.' I said, essentially: 'R.O.B. seems to be great. These are his strengths. He may top Meta Knight. Check him out and see if you agree.' I will say, however, that I am a full master of R.O.B.

Please give R.O.B. a second look before responding so you know where I am coming from!

As I mentioned, I am a full master of R.O.B., so I obviously know about the lack of range on his air neutral. R.O.B. has a very strong ranged game because of both his Gyro Down Special Spinner and his Laser. By using these tools correctly, R.O.B. can force the opponent to approach, at which point he knocks them back with a fresh air neutral.

My brother has been switching from character to character to try and beat my R.O.B., but he just cannot seem to beat me.

I believe my R.O.B. [is infinity better than Pit]



You STILL don't understand. I believe you are under-estimating my abilities as a full master of R.O.B.
My brother and I have been practicing the powerful barrier cancel, which, when combine with The Spin makes R.O.B. nearly unbeatable, even against Pit.

I am one of the top [...] players, purely because of R.O.B.'s incredible offensive out-put. With many attacks that do 15+%, an amazing recovery, an impressive defensive and ranged game, not to mention... THE SPIN.

I am not saying that because I can beat my brother with R.O.B., he is one of the best characters. I really do not like to simply shoot my mouth, and I am not one who thinks it right to shower a character in encomium, and never actually prove anything. I'm just saying that you should not disagree with me until you at least check out The Flip. Goes right through projectiles, goes right through attacks, goes right through faces. Please just give R.O.B. another shot and tell me what you thnk.

I ****ING DIED. LMAOOOOOO. I read that thread when it first came out, I was a melee "neighborhood champ" at the time so I actually took the thread quite seriously at the time and contemplated picking up Ganondorf.

 

[Spelt]

Typical haters gonna hate.

Especially browny.
Because he doesn't even understand how not to hate.

 

[Kaffei]

tier list shud just be MK
every other char cant compete

 

[Browny]

Typical haters gonna hate.

Especially browny.
Because he doesn't even understand how not to hate.

No joke, this is the Tshirt im wearing right now
http://i.imgur.com/szq9w.jpg

 

[Mr. Doom]

I always thought it was stupid when people put MK in god tier. It should go:

MK

God tier

ZSS

Snake

Toon Link

Falco

Ike/ Sonic

/lucas

Ike is never going to be that high in the tier list. I can almost guarantee you that.

 

[Orion*]

I disagree. Firstly, at this point in time there is no excuse for not knowing how a character works, so "novelty/surprise factor" is irrelevant.

Really....? Like I'm not even trying to take your wins away vs you but I watch anti play and you can't say he honestly knew what to do LOL. People in the US still haven't learned mu's for all the popular characters in A/B tier let alone MK (but I think he's pretty universally practiced at least in EC)

As for the rest, whether polts being arrogant or not he's earned the right to be, lol.

Nobody. Nobody. Has earned the right to be arrogant.

i really didn't mean to insult, it's just that there's this mentality in this community that "simple=bad," and i COMPLETELY disagree.

This is true.

Even in melee.

.....Play someone good jesus. In some situations you just like lose a stock or auto get put in a **** position for shielding looool.

Well You should have all of your EU friends come to the US

I don't even think he was making a reference to people in EU that was so ******** Albert lol.

As far as her dtilt, it's the same range as MK's dtilt, 2 frames slower startup and 3 frames worse on block. Neither of those differences is enough to change a move from incredible to bad.

Its not transcendent, and you dont have mk's anti punishment options after.

After dtilt I can shield and still have more options than you to avoid getting punished looool.

I have already decided to set my phaser to "laugh" in preparation for the BBR mu list.

satisfied...

Yeah thats probably the last emotion I'll feel about this chart.

Not that I'm even trying to meat ride BBR or something since I'm in it. Because I think there are positive and negative things that happen in it, and I also think almost all of the members there want it to improve so I feel like I should say this.

Nobody that matters cares what your opinion is.

 

[Espy Rose]

Really....? Like I'm not even trying to take your wins away vs you but I watch anti play and you can't say he honestly knew what to do LOL. People in the US still haven't learned mu's for all the popular characters in A/B tier let alone MK (but I think he's pretty universally practiced at least in EC)

Polt's not saying that they should know what to do. He's saying that they have no excuse not knowing what the character can do. The game's been out for almost three years now, and if you haven't actually sat down to learn/study a certain match up, then you have no legitimate reason for losing to some obscure character.

Because you had all the time in the friggin' world to learn the match up, but didn't.

 

[Hylian]

The game has been out for 3 years but there hasn't been good yoshi players for 3 years. Knowing what the characters moves do doesn't matter much if you aren't experienced against it.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The game has been out for 3 years but there hasn't been good yoshi players for 3 years. Knowing what the characters moves do doesn't matter much if you aren't experienced against it.

It makes all the difference. If you think about it, you can at least form a decent gameplan against it.

 

[Seagull Joe]

True that the game has been out that long, but think like how many good Pt's exist. Reflex is the only one I can think of so lack of Pt expierence can be bad if a randomly good one popped up and you had to verse it. There aren't too many good Pt's so the people from regions without Pt's would have a lot of problems.

 

[Espy Rose]

It makes all the difference. If you think about it, you can at least form a decent gameplan against it.

This.

For example, I don't think I've ever played a Zelda or Pokemon Trainer in tournament. Despite the lack of experience, I still know what I'd need to do in order to avoid several common strategies revolving around either character.

Shaky was the first Ness I really played in tournament at that level. Despite that, I knew going into the match what to expect, because I knew what Ness was capable of.

Point being, Hyli/Gull, is that as long as you are aware of character potential, nothing should take you by surprise (or, as Polt said, "shock value" shouldn't make a difference), especially since, again, you've had almost three years to work on studying characters.

There's no longer an excuse to lose to match ups based off of character ignorance. That's the argument. In-game character inexperience, however, is a different story in and of itself. At least, that's how I see it.

 

[Orion*]

Polt's not saying that they should know what to do. He's saying that they have no excuse not knowing what the character can do. The game's been out for almost three years now, and if you haven't actually sat down to learn/study a certain match up, then you have no legitimate reason for losing to some obscure character.

Because you had all the time in the friggin' world to learn the match up, but didn't.

What people should do, and what they actually do are two completely different things.

-I honestly don't even know who won between polt/anti i only watched game 1 and some of game 2 and was bored out of my mind and I honestly don't care about who lost or won or whatever johns. It's irrelevant to me.

I'm talking about purely from a character potential standpoint and why polt thinks yoshi is like the next jesus on earth. LOL at anything near an even matchup vs metaknight, and LOL at most players actually knowing what to do vs yoshi- let alone the best one(?).

 

[Espy Rose]

What people should do, and what they actually do are two completely different things.

Get outta here. I thought they were one and the same.

-I honestly don't even know who won between polt/anti i only watched game 1 and some of game 2 and was bored out of my mind and I honestly don't care about who lost or won or whatever johns. It's irrelevant to me.

As was this entire paragraph irrelevant to the conversation.

I'm talking about purely from a character potential standpoint and why polt thinks yoshi is like the next jesus on earth. LOL at anything near an even matchup vs metaknight, and LOL at most players actually knowing what to do vs yoshi- let alone the best one(?).

I really doubt that Poltergust thinks Yoshi is THAT good, Orion, so you can get your head out of the clouds on that one. He knows better than anyone else that Yoshi is pretty damn limited. Oh, and way to divert the attention away from the main point, Orion:

There's no longer an excuse to lose to match ups based off of character ignorance. This is supported by Poltergust's comment about how shock value should no longer be a valid reason for winning against any particular person.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

 

[Coney]

it's no excuse, but it still happens

san three-stocked me at pound 5 despite knowing EXACTLY what to do in the MU and playing against a pretty good ike semi-regularly

 

[Espy Rose]

And that's perfectly fine Coney, because that loss was not based on character ignorance. You know what to do in that MU, so I assume you understand Ike's properties, his options, and his potential, and ways around all of those qualities with your own character.

In other words, you lost to the player, not to a lack of knowledge of the character.

So, in actuality, I'm saying that it doesn't still happen, because if it happens AFTER you learn the character, then it's no longer losing due to that "shock-value", or character ignorance.

 

[Coney]

oh, so you're essentially arguing not to take away the player's skill in making excuses about character ignorance?

i can definitely dig that

while i don't think it's right to say that "xxx player isn't all that good, their character is just misunderstood," i think in a competitive environment there ARE times when you're going to run into ignorance of what a character can do when wielded at the top level

i've gone on record as saying i was scared ****less to play san in tournament, and even though i think PT is honestly the worst char in the game, i'm just waiting for the day reflex exposes me. but this isn't JUST because of their characters, it's because of their incredible talent WITH these characters.

 

[Poltergust]

Thank you very much, Espy. You summed up my thoughts perfectly. ^_^

LOL at anything near an even matchup vs metaknight

I don't understand where you even got this from. Heck, my take on the match-up has actually gotten a lot worse recently. It's definitely one of Yoshi's hardest match-ups.

 

[Yikarur]

I don't understand where you even got this from. Heck, my take on the match-up has actually gotten a lot worse recently. It's definitely one of Yoshi's hardest match-ups.

a week ago you talked about relative good ratios of that match-up! ._.

 

[Poltergust]

You mean when we were discussing Yoshi's hardest match-ups in the Yoshi forum? All that I did was not put him in the top 5. He still beats Yoshi, though.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Mid-tier is basically what ***** us harder then S and A-tier.
Lucario
Toon Link
Wolf
Fox
Anything else i'm missing in B-D tier?

 

[Nefarious B]

ZSS beats Yoshi but probably not worse than MK

 

[Poltergust]

Nah, Slush. That's everyone in B-D tier.

ZSS beats Yoshi, yes, but it's a near-even match-up. We're talking about characters with solid advantages over him.

 

[Delta-cod]

I'm a Yoshi main's worst nightmare.

I main Lucario, and I also second Yoshi, so I know exactly what I'm up against when I fight him. O_o;

I find your Lucario MUCH easier to fight against with Yoshi than any other one I've faced. ._.''

 

[Spelt]

.....Play someone good jesus. In some situations you just like lose a stock or auto get put in a **** position for shielding looool.

Well shields are suppose to be a disadvantageous position ... i'm not saying they're good, but they're better than brawl's. Except maybe if you're g&w or donkey kong.

 

[DMG]

???

Shielding in Melee tends to be bad. Not that many good options from shielding considering how safe people are on shields. It's one thing to use them as defense, but it's hella hard to turn shielding into a counter attack.

 

[Kewkky]

???

Shielding in Melee tends to be bad. Not that many good options from shielding considering how safe people are on shields. It's one thing to use them as defense, but it's hella hard to turn shielding into a counter attack.

Unless you're Samus and have entered a match against Falco.

 

[Spelt]

???

Shielding in Melee tends to be bad. Not that many good options from shielding considering how safe people are on shields. It's one thing to use them as defense, but it's hella hard to turn shielding into a counter attack.

But shielding is supposed to be for defense.

Whereas with brawl's shield nearly any multiple hit move will shield poke you if it isn't already 100% full, sometimes even if you're angling it correctly. Add that to how easy it is to poke at someone's shield with a long ranged aerial or projectile. Most of the time it is safer just to try to stay out of the opponent's range until you find an opening, nobody uses shield in brawl unless they absolutely have to.

 

[Albert.]

But shielding is supposed to be for defense.

Whereas with brawl's shield nearly any multiple hit move will shield poke you if it isn't already 100% full, sometimes even if you're angling it correctly. Add that to how easy it is to poke at someone's shield with a long ranged aerial or projectile. Most of the time it is safer just to try to stay out of the opponent's range until you find an opening, nobody uses shield in brawl unless they absolutely have to.

Really?

Either you're dips*** stupid or you're hard trolling.

 

[da K.I.D.]

spelt, you are bad.

saying shield in melee is better than shield in brawl is laughable and rediculous, please stop.

in melee theres only 3 things you can do out of shield.
1. Get shined/jabbed by the guy who hit your shield and now has frame advantage.
2. Roll or spotdodge and get that shiz read like a book into the combo they were trying to do from jump street.
3. Get lucky as balls with and aerial oos or shield grab.

In brawl, there are entire characters that just flat out lose to shield.

 

[Spelt]

spelt, you are bad.
2. Roll or spotdodge and get that shiz read like a book into the combo they were trying to do from jump street.

lolololol o u.

characters flat out losing to shield is an overstatement.

 

[John12346]

I find your Lucario MUCH easier to fight against with Yoshi than any other one I've faced. ._.''

Le gasp

Maybe I should Fsmash more often in that matchup or something, then? D:

 

[Spelt]

Well obviously you should roll more.

 

[Z'zgashi]

lolololol o u.

characters flat out losing to shield is an overstatement.

Wow, and I actually though you knew something about brawl.