Official BBR Tier List v5

[Z'zgashi]

Yoshi can jump infinitely as well AND beats bowser 70:30.

 

[Tesh]

Everyone can jump infinitely and beats bowser though.....

 

[Scidadle]

Nope. I dunno where you guys get your facts. Bowser is the only character with infinite jumps. Also his fsmash kills at like 15% HAVE YOU SEEN IT?

 

[Kewkky]

Nope. I dunno where you guys get your facts. Bowser is the only character with infinite jumps. Also his fsmash kills at like 15% HAVE YOU SEEN IT?

Uhh...

Jigglypuff, Lucario, Diddy, and pretty much almost every character (if not, every character) can do Infinite Second Jump Renewals.
/falls_for_the_guy's_attempt_at_trolling

 

[Poltergust]

Yeah.

Albert: IDK. Personally, for me I think Yoshi is garbage and nothing can change my opinion of that. Like, yes people do well with him (poltergust in particular) and I don't wanna downplay his skill as a player, but frankly I think people lose a lot to Yoshi over novelty/surprise value.

Yoshi, more than some other characters, feels like you can sit down, do 5 serious matches, and figure out stuff to do that he has no reasonable response to. Diddy for example. I don't play that matchup day in and day out, but I realized that Yoshi is kinda butt at approaching. So I can do general defensive things like throwing a banana at his shield and waiting, because I know he's not gonna PS Dash grab me or be able to drop shield catch the banana and threaten me with anything real strong.

I feel like with a little bit more general knowledge about what to do against Yoshi, that his potential viability drops like a rock. Even more so than compared to similar "lower" characters that do well like Ness/Ike/etc.

But that's what I'm saying. His problems seem a LOT more general than character specific when compared to characters somewhat around him. Ness/Ike for example. Sure they have general flaws, but they tend to be overshadowed cause someone can CG them or abuse a character trait over them, instead of "Oh well Yoshi sucks at approaching and his shield is bad, which makes things easier for the other guy regardless of what character they got".

It's because of that, that I find him less viable than other characters in a similar spot tier wise.

I disagree. Firstly, at this point in time there is no excuse for not knowing how a character works, so "novelty/surprise factor" is irrelevant. I expect everyone to know what his moves are and what his primary ATs are (everyone should know what Dragonic Egg Lay is just like how everyone knows Snake's Grenade Stripping, which characters Dedede can chain-grab, Bowser's 10-frame advantage on grab-releases, Peach's large auto-cancel window on her f-air, etc. All extremely basic, fundamental stuff).

Secondly, you talk about Yoshi as if he's a gimmick character. Let me tell you I probably play the most basic Yoshi ever and I still do well with him. Yoshi's overall attributes are above-average: great jab and tilts, good smashes, overall good aerials, top 3 pivot-grab, tied for best spot-dodge, best air-speed (which helps a lot with momentum-canceling, too), heavy (but doesn't fall into combos other heavyweights do, and therefore has a higher survival rate), best air-grab, great projectile. He's simply held back a lot by his terrible shield, which makes all of his good traits seem not important. He's not gimmicky in the slightest, because if a player fails at the basic level he will fail at playing the character completely. One can't rely on his supposed "gimmicks" to win a match.

Third, Yoshi doesn't suffer as much for his shield as characters like PT and Ness suffer for their flaws. A lot of characters can stall PT and make his Pokemon fatigued, and almost every character has a grab-release option on Ness and a reliable way to edge-guard him. In fact, there are very few characters that can pressure Yoshi's shield and take advantage of his weakness, but the ones that can are generally the ones Yoshi loses to (MK, Toon Link, Marth, etc.).

One more thing, Yoshi's approach is rather solid (unless you're fighting Lucario D: ). Don't know where you got that "Yoshi sucks at approaching" thing from. I suppose there are better ones, but it's not terrible by any means.

DMG, wario ***** yoshi so obviously you beat polt badly XD

We haven't played each other since WHOBO2, which was like a year ago. =|

For Lain, he just sucked it up. I'm not doubting his skill or Polt's, but dropping so many grabs the entire set is rediculous. Not to mention Polt was playing overly aggressive in where he was basically yelling at Lain to kill him for doing it.

What the... I was playing those matches really defensively. Not Yoshi vs. Dedede defensively, but still really defensively. Each match took over 6 minutes, I'm sure. ._.

It's weird how often grabs get dropped on me, though. Either I'm extremely lucky or Yoshi is difficult to chain-grab or something.

Oh, forgot about him. Yeah, he definitely falls into the "FUUUUUUUU, I CAN'T APPROACH THIS STUPID CHARACTER!!!!" section.

I'm seriously going to try Dedede for Lucario. Maybe if I practiced more with him I could have done better against Trela. =/

MVD ***** meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. @_@

Heh, I taught MVD how to fight Yoshi well. He's probably the most experienced Snake player when it comes to fighting Yoshi. I still beat him in a MM at Pound V, though.

 

[Yikarur]

Heh, I taught MVD how to fight Yoshi well. He's probably the most experienced Snake player when it comes to fighting Yoshi. I still beat him in a MM at Pound V, though.

I want to see that kind of teaching lol
like crouching instead of spotdodging?
don't commit something while under Yoshi, just camp nades?
good timed ftilt > Yoshi?

I don't think you really taught him how to play Yoshi, your statment sounds so awkward arrogant "I taught him the match-up well and still beat him!!!"

People can know what Yoshi can do and still play the match-up horrible, I don't know why, when I watch videos I always face-palm because the people I play already know a lot of ways to counter Yoshi and just don't do it against you.
so come down from your throne, it's really annoying.
you play so basic, actually you should get ***** for it :/ I don't know why people are not able to take advantage of it.

 

[Poltergust]

I was acting arrogant because I was joking around, hence the face. Chill out, dude.

Incidentally, he does do all the things you mentioned. It's really hard to fight him when he gets his grenade stuff going especially.

 

[DMG]

Poltergust, let's be honest. How many people have you played, win or lose, that you can confidently say "Hey that guy knew/honestly should have known the Yoshi matchup?". Frankly, I can say that plenty of people I beat with Wario I do so because they have no clue on what's proper in their character MU vs me. I doubt Yoshi is all squared up with the smash community and everyone knows the Yoshi matchup. Because let's be honest... people don't have the Yoshi matchup on priority for what to learn exceptionally well MU wise.


The people you have already played more extensively, or people with known Yoshi's in their area, sure they're expected to know the matchup. But 90% of the community honestly isn't. Novelty factor can kick in even with more established characters if the person's region is not home to any strong representatives of the character. There's plenty of people who don't know the Lucario/ZSS/Olimar/TL/Falco/Diddy/Marth/Dedede/etc matchups very well. It's not something specific to low tiers.


Yoshi is butt at approaching. BUTT.

 

[Loota]

I was about to link here a picture of the famous butt of Guts Man but then I chocked.

Link needs to rise wooooo

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Good thing DMG has figured this game out completely already.

 

[Flayl]

Yoshi can jump infinitely as well AND beats bowser 70:30.

That ain't Olimar

 

[Spelt]

Not everyone reads this thread. Something like peach's IASA frames on fair may not seem like common sense to someone else. Some people get their character information purely from rl experience. But even then, knowing peach can autocancel fair doesn't give you anywhere near all you need to know about the matchup.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Nope. I dunno where you guys get your facts. Bowser is the only character with infinite jumps. Also his fsmash kills at like 15% HAVE YOU SEEN IT?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBaZIvGGHnQ&feature=related

 

[John12346]

I'm a Yoshi main's worst nightmare.

I main Lucario, and I also second Yoshi, so I know exactly what I'm up against when I fight him. O_o;

 

[Z'zgashi]

I CP D3. GGs. *****...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

DMG, most characters in this game are bad at approaching because shields are amazing, that isn't exactly a Yoshi-specific problem.

 

[SpliziT]

I don't know why BBR hesitates. They know Fox will eventually be A Tier, he's just too good if you know how to use him .

 

[Tagxy]

you play so basic, actually you should get ***** for it :/ I don't know why people are not able to take advantage of it.

People have said this sort of thing before (X, ESAM, etc.) yet success with such "basic" play is rarely replicated by that players peers. As well traveled as polt is its hard to attribute it to some yoshi players playing "good" players while polt only plays "bad" ones, and sounds even more odd to say that the same players play good against most yoshi players and bad against polt. There's obviously something different he does.

As for the rest, whether polts being arrogant or not he's earned the right to be, lol. There wasnt really anything wrong with what he said except that it might be annoying.

 

[Coney]

you play so basic, actually you should get ***** for it :/ I don't know why people are not able to take advantage of it.

what's wrong with playing basic?

things like this are evident of a trend i've been noticing lately. i think people get too hung up on situational knowledge and small applications of techniques that they lose sight of the bigger concepts like spacing, zoning, positioning, that kinda stuff.

 

[Albert.]

Why is a Yoshi player OTHER Than Polt or Delta-cod talking down to Polt?

Are you f***ing serious?

It'd be like if a Marth random like me went up to MikeHaze and went like "You're playing marth wrong"

The amount of dumb this thread can provide is insaneeee

Also, LOL @ DMG referring to Marth as "one of those rarer characters" xD how far we done fell

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yika is just salty because his Yoshi is free as hell. Almost as free as my Wolf

 

[Tagxy]

Some of yall dont need to be so mean. I only mentioned it because other players do it too for other characters (pika included).

It's ok to call someone out for potential arrogance, I just dont think its a good idea to attack their arrogance by going after the quality of their main (same or not), playstyle, or success; when the other has clearly proven it to be effective and/or stable.

 

[Coney]

Some of yall dont need to be so mean. I only mentioned it because other players do it too for other characters (pika included).

It's ok to call someone out for potential arrogance, I just dont think its a good idea to attack their arrogance by going after the quality of their main (same or not), playstyle, or success; when the other has clearly proven it to be effective and/or stable.

i really didn't mean to insult, it's just that there's this mentality in this community that "simple=bad," and i COMPLETELY disagree.

 

[John12346]

I CP D3. GGs. *****...

I just meant as far as Yoshi...

Besides, I know the Dedede matchup to a reasonable extent. You've gotta be a legit pro Dedede main(see: Atomsk and Coney) to take me down with him.

 

[Matador]

what's wrong with playing basic?

things like this are evident of a trend i've been noticing lately. i think people get too hung up on situational knowledge and small applications of techniques that they lose sight of the bigger concepts like spacing, zoning, positioning, that kinda stuff.

This.

It's always funny when mains of a certain character don't understand why the BEST player of their particular chracter is so successful.

Some Marios are still clueless about Boss...there are things more important than learning the intricacies of your character...like learning how to play the game.

 

[Tagxy]

I wasnt referring to your post coney, sorry, lol.

 

[Albert.]

This thread has turned into an 80s movie

We're all on a spiritual journey with the destination: ENLIGHTENMENT

Coney and Polt are our Sensei/Older-wiser-cool kid who explains everything

movie montage while we go "back to basics- WE CAN WIN THIS FIGHT!"

And this is how we found happiness

This is how we learned how to play the game like Azen our forefathers did.

We hope to make you proud

 

[Coney]

the strength was inside you all along

 

[NickRiddle]

the strength was inside you all along

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHbH0QxisTw

 

[Laem]

Mikehaze plays marth wrong.
no hard feelings?

 

[Spelt]

DMG, most characters in this game are bad at approaching because shields are amazing, that isn't exactly a Yoshi-specific problem.

Shields aren't amazing at all ... They're pretty bad. I feel safer in shield in every other game, actually. Even in melee. But maybe you're just saying this because you main zss and shield is overpowered against her specifically.

 

[Kewkky]

I'd rather have an MK shielding my approaches than have him spacing stuff. When I'm ZSS, I'd rather he never shielded... It's such a big jump in mood. Unless you're playing much more carefully, you're gonna see lots of this:

*Approach > shield > approach > shield > OoS attack/dashgrab > throw offstage > dair/sourspot nair > GGs...

Pink for pretty.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I've been saying it since 2 tier list threads ago: our idea of what makes a character good or bad are completely false in many cases because this game is not simple enough to just say "Yoshi has a bad shield, low tier" or "Yoshi can't approach, low tier." Frankly the stages aren't large enough in most cases for matches to devolve into Falco-shoots-lasters-you-try-to-get-close (with a few exceptions) and in many, many many cases they are just games of chicken, while you wait for your opponent to do something laggy or an attack your character can easily beat. It's all options. That isn't to say Yoshi's shield doesn't hurt him, but to say you can just do X to Yoshi and invalidate him is hilariously wrong, especially since it isn't a chaingrab or infinite or something, he just has a bad shield. Everything you could do to his bad shield can still be avoided by just jumping away or spot dodging. It limits his options somewhat, it doesn't just make him terrible.

 

[Coney]

oh yeah, i also wanted to respond to this

Shieldcamping is good against ZSS.

o word???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9pcOXsxqZY#t=10m42s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17Iv9bHybvU#t=12m54s

( btw while searching "patg doom" in youtube, it suggested "patg di" and i lol'd )

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I think NR went about that MU all wrong, Kirby can't do anything against ZSS camping at mid-range, like at all, and when he gets close he still can't really do anything vs jab OOS.

Also, lol at people who don't know side-b shield pokes. =/

 

[Yikarur]

playing very basic mit Yoshi is a bad thing, it's mad easy to counter and Polt does so often stuff like fullhop bair with full momentum in the direction of the opponent, people should punish that, it's really not that hard.
I just still don't get it why people are aunable to abuse Yoshis weaknesses, it's actually very easy, especially with MK :/

 

[Albert.]

Well You should have all of your EU friends come to the US

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Yes, but you can also jab right after side-b ends and beat most punishes.

That's why PSing is so important vs. ZSS (and also kind of annoying when you play her) because PSing is the only way to guarantee a punish on a well-spaced side-b unless they predict you're going to do it. The reason Kewwky and Orion etc. say ZSS is so free is because apparently, ZSS is pretty much always going to side-b at mid-range so you can just PS it and grab/anything. This completely ignores all of her very strong, fast mix-up options at mid-range though. Are these punishable too? Yeah, but you can't punish them all the same way so you had to have expected it. This is what makes NR's ground-oriented playstyle effective. Meh.

 

[NickRiddle]

I think NR went about that MU all wrong, Kirby can't do anything against ZSS camping at mid-range, like at all, and when he gets close he still can't really do anything vs jab OOS.

Also, lol at people who don't know side-b shield pokes. =/

TBH, I wanted my bair/d-smash to beat his bair.
Otherwise... I would have done other stuff.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

TBH, I wanted my bair/d-smash to beat his bair.
Otherwise... I would have done other stuff.

Yeah, I learned really fast that dsmash isn't that great against Kirby, he can just jump over it and bair you, and his bair is better than yours. You basically just side-b him, safe dsmash for punishing rolls, and jab him when he gets close and you win. >_>