Official BBR Recommended Rule List 3.0

[Supreme Dirt]

I had a long drawn out post, but I believe a certain thread in the Ganon boards reflects my sentiments towards this ruleset's unnecessary gimping of the worst character in the game.

Though I will give the Starter list credit as being a step forward. Now let's just get Pirate Ship and Yoshi's Island Melee into the banlist, and we're set.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

With blast zones relatively close to the secondary islands, Olimar doesn't have as much space to be gimped in--he'll either die or live most of the time. Plus, pursuit from the middle island can be hindered by the blocks and such.
Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9rcjpkx5T8

OlimaronGGs2gud?

 

[T0MMY]

*The BBR cannot have chosen a different stage list
*the banning criteria needs to be changed to something that's not subjective and if that's impossible then do it by the majority using preference alone with baseline objective rules
*People claiming that EC are scrubs are simply stating their opinions on what makes a better game
* the BBR needs to have more people vote on their stage lists

This man speaks great wisdom.
If there were more people like you on SWF I'd spend more time here than AiB.
Good points made.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

New stage list is fine. If there are stages on the list you don't think are good stages for competition and you are a TO, ban them. If you are not a TO, then either become a TO or learn to play on these stages.

There's a lot of "LOL THE BBR SUX AND OBV DOESNT PLAY THE GAME" in here but not a lot of intelligent explanation as to why you don't like X stage. At least make an argument.

 

[Player-1]

halberd and delfino are not neutral stages.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Nice to see that an intelligent stage list was made. Though it looks like I'll need to finish finding my data for Pirate Ship.

*continues to eat popcorn and watch all of the BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW! posts appear*

 

[Meta-K]

Stamp of approval for no FD in the standard five starter list. Take it to battlefield if you don't like interacting with the terrain.

 

[Vyse]

halberd and delfino are not neutral stages.

In a 9-stage starter list, what would you have instead?

 

[Vermanubis]

Aside from the absurd nuances that the OP is plagued with, I kinda dig the new stagelist, save for a few ******** ones like DP and LM.

 

[mikeHAZE]

port town legal?



shark week approaches

 

[Raziek]

port town legal?



shark week approaches

Good lucking sharking with the track 3 inches below the platform.

Come on Mike, you're better than that.

 

[Xyless]

In a 9-stage starter list, what would you have instead?

I'd rather have PS2 instead of Delfino, personally.

 

[san.]

The best thing I like is the 5-starter list.

Anyways:

The most controversial aspect of this stage, however, was the camping enabled by the presence of water, and in particular swimming under the rudder, or "rudder camping". Because not all characters have a way of forcing the opponent out from under the rudder, many matchups can see the game decided as soon as a stock lead is obtained. 31.7% of all matchups in the game see rudder camping as a problem. Some felt that rudder camping should be banned under stalling to allow the stage to be legal, while others felt that it should be Pirate Ship that is banned rather than rudder camping. Still others felt that even with rudder camping the stage should be legal. We have decided to leave the issue of whether swimming under the rudder should be labelled as stalling to the discretion of the TO. The TO's decision on the matter will likely be a major factor in placing the stage into the Counterpick or the Banned category.

This was seriously still being discussed? Rudder camping is easily identifiable, and can easily be dealt with. Even if rudder camping was legal, ONLY 30% of the cast even have problems against it, and it is heavily dependent on the condition of the stage, which constantly changes to forms that don't support this form of camping anyways.

 

[Johnny Citrus]

PS2 seems fair to be honest, its port town and green greens that are really dumb

 

[Juushichi]

I'd rather have Frigate than either, Xyless. However, I wanna clear something up.

These aren't neutrals, lol. People still use that term? Haha. Starter, btw.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

What's wrong with Distant Planet? I think it seems pretty reasonable, unless you're concerned with camping under the platform..

 

[Nidtendofreak]

The best thing I like is the 5-starter list.

Anyways:



This was seriously still being discussed? Rudder camping is easily identifiable, and can easily be dealt with. Even if rudder camping was legal, ONLY 30% of the cast even have problems against it, and it is heavily dependent on the condition of the stage, which constantly changes to forms that don't support this form of camping anyways.

Don't worry San, once I stop being lazy I'll throw up my Pirate Ship topic. Nobody would have been able to rudder camp with the one series of events I had. 12 Wind Stages in 8 minutes = lol rudder camping. The cannonballs fly path being an issue? Those things are insanely easy to predict their path...

I basically just need somebody to send me a picture of the cannonball hitboxes: only the smaller one can really KO you, I want to see how small it is. Otherwise, I can handle everything myself.

 

[Raziek]

I'm with San on Ruddercamping, and I think PS2 or Frigate is a better choice than Delfino. Frigate better than PS2.

Nothing is wrong with DP, either. xD

 

[T-block]

The best thing I like is the 5-starter list.

Anyways:



This was seriously still being discussed? Rudder camping is easily identifiable, and can easily be dealt with. Even if rudder camping was legal, ONLY 30% of the cast even have problems against it, and it is heavily dependent on the condition of the stage, which constantly changes to forms that don't support this form of camping anyways.

31.7% of all matchups being affected is a non-trivial amount. You could make a case for either side (that players can be expected to deal with it, or that it's too much), which is reflected well in the fact that it is Counter/Banned. If your TO considers rudder camping as stalling, then you could probably make a strong push for its legality.

 

[Tomato]

As far as I'm concerned, pretty much any stage that can be deadlier than the person you're fighting should be removed. And taking advantage of the stage (such as Green Green's bombs, Port Town's cars) which affect the way a battle plays out, shouldn't be used. Like Rainbow Cruise is kind of ridiculous. So much unnecessary moving.

Every battle should just be played on Smashville. It'd solve all of our problems. Your counterpicks are Final Destination & Battlefield. Go.

 

[Kole]

What's wrong with Distant Planet? I think it seems pretty reasonable, unless you're concerned with camping under the platform..

DDD, Falco, and Yoshi CGing up the ramp on the left is a problem

 

[Xyless]

I'd rather have Frigate than either, Xyless. However, I wanna clear something up.

These aren't neutrals, lol. People still use that term? Haha. Starter, btw.

Frigate is horrible for tetherers on the right side with the first transformation. Like, super horrible.

 

[Vyse]

I'd rather have PS2 instead of Delfino, personally.

I think I can agree with that.

 

[Juushichi]

As far as I'm concerned, pretty much any stage that can be deadlier than the person you're fighting should be removed. And taking advantage of the stage (such as Green Green's bombs, Port Town's cars) which affect the way a battle plays out, shouldn't be used. Like Rainbow Cruise is kind of ridiculous. So much unnecessary moving.

Every battle should just be played on Smashville. It'd solve all of our problems. Your counterpicks are Final Destination & Battlefield. Go.

If this is an obvious troll, I ain't even mad.

Otherwise... wat?
10wat?

 

[Xyless]

DDD, Falco, and Yoshi CGing up the ramp on the left is a problem

Easy solution: Don't stand on the ramp.

 

[Kole]

Easy solution: Don't stand on the ramp.

..is this a serious response?

 

[Flayl]

..is this a serious response?

Yes, yes it is. Rain and pellets > camping under the main platform.

 

[Tomato]

If this is an obvious troll, I ain't even mad.

Otherwise... wat?
10wat?

Lol, I'm not even playing man. I mean, you shouldn't be beaten by the stage. Like I would be pissed if I lost a tournament because a stray projectile hit a bomb block when I was near it on Green Greens.

 

[Juushichi]

..is this a serious response?

Positioning - New concept in Brawl.

Did you also know that you don't have to be grabbed by the Ice Climbers?

 

[Raziek]

..is this a serious response?

Yes, actually, it is. DP gives you projectiles to deal with campers even if you don't have a projectile. Furthermore, you actually have to mess up pretty bad to actually get grabbed facing the correct direction. It's not even CLOSE to over-centralizing.

 

[Orion*]

Why, because now players actually have to work / learn how lava works / not be stupid around cars?

because you know, youve put time into PLAYING this game LOL

 

[Asdioh]

I don't get it. The BBR makes the ruleset and then encourages TOs to ignore most of it? That seems to be the argument on the first few pages when people complained about stages.


It basically looks to me like the BBR is trying to let **** hit the fan this time around: anything goes.



The abscence of a "no planking" rule suggests that they have forgotten how matchup breaking it is, or they are looking for an excuse to finally ban metaknight.


This will be interesting. I encourage anyone that isn't dedicated to characters they actually enjoy, like myself, to play as "gay" as you possibly can to prove why you think certain stages/characters should be banned.

 

[Rob_Gambino]

Who freaking votes this crap in anyways (regarding stage lists)? I hope tourneys in my region don't pick up this trash and leave it to rot.

I like not limiting Dedede, Marth, etc with their infinites. Glad to see there's no ledge limit either.

 

[Vyse]

I don't get it. The BBR makes the ruleset and then encourages TOs to ignore most of it? That seems to be the argument on the first few pages when people complained about stages.


It basically looks to me like the BBR is trying to let **** hit the fan this time around: anything goes.



The abscence of a "no planking" rule suggests that they have forgotten how matchup breaking it is, or they are looking for an excuse to finally ban metaknight.


This will be interesting. I encourage anyone that isn't dedicated to characters they actually enjoy, like myself, to play as "gay" as you possibly can to prove why you think certain stages/characters should be banned.

The original idea is to give TO's with no experience or opinion to rely on, a rule set that any person with a copy of Brawl can use.

 

[san.]

31.7% of all matchups being affected is a non-trivial amount. You could make a case for either side (that players can be expected to deal with it, or that it's too much), which is reflected well in the fact that it is Counter/Banned. If your TO considers rudder camping as stalling, then you could probably make a strong push for its legality.

It is when you factor the amount of stage transitions that influence being able to successfully "camp" under the rudder. These transitions also last a good 20-30+seconds each, also. These transitions are easily identifiable too, where you can easily pressure the opponent trying to return back to the actual match. And this is only against less than 1/3 of the characters.

If any transition allows for rudder camping to be utterly impossible to deal with, then it is no longer camping and should be considered a stalling attempt.


It's not like you can even plank on this stage, which encompasses a large majority of the cast that have "problems" against that, too. You can't really plank as effectively when there isn't a large gain to be had to getting the opponent offstage.

Also, if you're on the top platform, you can be very safe from just about any obstacle the stage throws at you, even if you have bad eyesight and can't see a large tower in the background throwing a cannonball LEFT or RIGHT.

 

[mikeHAZE]

Good lucking sharking with the track 3 inches below the platform.

Come on Mike, you're better than that.

am i? who are you lol

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Oh yes, by all means, freak out! ...wait the stage list is almost exactly the same as v2.0, which no one had a problem with...

People just want an excuse to freak out. We could have posted "free cookies!" in this thread and everyone would have reacted just as negatively.

Please do inspect the stage list from 2.0 for yourself. No one had a problem with it, and it wasn't the end of the world, and the game was FINE for the last several years. PIRATE SHIP IN *COUNTER*!? GASP!!!!

Again, picking the stages is up to the TO. These stages are a suggestion. There is absolutely no reason to freak out over any of this. They aren't even that bad anyway. Guaranteed over 90% of the people freaking out about these stages have probably never even bothered to try this anyway, yet they are SO SURE it will break the game.

I voted ban on some of them, the rule list doesn't completely adhere to what I personally believe a stage list should be. That doesn't mean I'm going to throw a fit. I'll just edit the stagelist as I see fit when I run a tournament, just like everyone in the history of Smash always has.

Try maybe, just for a second, thinking about what you hate so much and actually giving something a chance. You'd be surprised at how little it will hurt you. If it turns out you still feel the same way, then at least you gave things a fair shot instead of backlashing instantly without thought.

Starter

Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Starter/Counter

Castle Siege
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1

Counter

Brinstar
Delfino (moved from S/C)
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise

Counter/Banned

Distant Planet (moved from C)
Green Greens
Luigi's Mansion (moved from C)
Port Town Aero Dive
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) (moved from C)
Norfair (moved from C)

Banned

75m
Big Blue
Bridge of Eldin
Corneria (moved from C)
Flat Zone 2
Green Hill Zone (moved from C)
Hanenbow
Hyrule Temple
Mario Bros.
Mario Circuit (moved from C/B)
Mushroomy Kingdom I
Mushroomy Kingdom II
New Pork City
Onett (moved from C/B)
Rumble Falls
Shadow Moses
Skyworld (moved from C/B)
Spear Pillar
The Summit
Wario Ware

Starter/Counter

* Battlefield
* Yoshi's Island
* Smashville

* Lylat Cruise
* Pokémon Stadium

* Final Destination
* Castle Siege

* Delfino Plaza
* Halberd


Counterpick

* Luigi's Mansion
* Norfair
* Frigate Orpheon
* Pokémon Stadium 2
* Port Town Aero Dive
* Distant Planet
* Pictochat
* Jungle Japes
* Rainbow Cruise
* Green Greens
* Brinstar


Counter/Banned

* Yoshi's Island (Melee)
* Pirate Ship


Banned

* Mushroomy Kingdom 1
* Mushroomy Kingdom 2
* Mario Circuit
* Rumble Falls
* Bridge of Eldin
* Spear Pillar
* Wario Ware
* New Pork City
* Summit
* Skyworld
* 75m
* Mario Bros.
* Flat Zone 2
* Hanenbow
* Shadow Moses Island
* Green Hill Zone
* Temple
* Onett
* Corneria
* Big Blue

 

[DJMirror]

Wow....MikeHAZE was right....The BBR is stupid

 

[Ripple]

I don't see what the problem is. it gives us stages for a 3/5/7/9 stage starter list. why are you arguing with stages when most places don't use 9? or even 7 for that matter? they give us 9 stages that CAN be legal. NOT 9 stages that should be lagal. CAN =/= SHOULD

 

[milesg2g]

Wow....MikeHAZE was right....The BBR is stupid

hey, look on the bright side.

You could always Main MK.