Official BBR Recommended Rule List 3.0

[Vermanubis]

You guys don't get it. It completely jeopardizes his recovery. If he's on his last stock, he can't recover. It is easily avoidable and allows Ganon the ability to recovery SOMEWHAT safely. This way is balanced. The new BBR way makes Ganon lose all recovery options and rewards the other player, since they can aim to be grabbed. Ganon has two options in this scenario:

Side-b and lose

or

Up-b and get guarded, gimped or hit out of his recovery (yes, you can actually buffer aerials out of Ganon's up-b and gimp him). No one even gets Ganoncides to begin with, at least not in competitive play, so all it's doing is crippling Ganon further. And before anyone says that he's Ganon, it doesn't matter, tell me that when we play.

The BBR keeps fabricating reasons and ostensibly well-thought out reasons as to why this rule was implemented, but they neglect arguably the most obvious evidential material to the contrary. When Ganon does an aerial choke on them (an Aerudo as we Ganons like to call them), the opponent is the only one who takes damage. Why should this not apply to the suicide? It makes no sense and is the quintessence of fragmented/selective logic.

 

[The Real Inferno]

You guys don't get it. It completely jeopardizes his recovery. If he's on his last stock, he can't recover. It is easily avoidable and allows Ganon the ability to recovery SOMEWHAT safely. This way is balanced. The new BBR way makes Ganon lose all recovery options and rewards the other player, since they can aim to be grabbed. Ganon has two options in this scenario:

Side-b and lose

or

Up-b and get guarded, gimped or hit out of his recovery (yes, you can actually buffer aerials out of Ganon's up-b and gimp him). No one even gets Ganoncides to begin with, at least not in competitive play, so all it's doing is crippling Ganon further. And before anyone says that he's Ganon, it doesn't matter, tell me that when we play.

What do you mean new? Under the old ruleset the suicide rule didn't even apply to him, only Bowser. He's in the EXACT SAME boat he was in before either way. In fact, he has a better chance now because if he ties, he gets a one stock rematch.

 

[AlphaZealot]

In otherwords then ADHD, no matter what the stagelist is...MK will dominate? So why bother banning stuff that other characters can use, since MK doesn't even need those extra stages to dominate, but GW could sure as hell benefit a bit.

 

[warrenb]

so i hear there's no ledge grab limit....

time to staf it up and time you out.

 

[t!MmY]

In otherwords then ADHD, no matter what the stagelist is...MK will dominate? So why bother banning stuff that other characters can use, since MK doesn't even need those extra stages to dominate, but GW could sure as hell benefit a bit.

So we should allow items...? Because... characters other than MK can use them?

 

[Chuee]

so i hear there's no ledge grab limit....

time to staf it up and time you out.

This dude gonna make money.

 

[.AC.]

I wonder...if NY/NJ bans all but 12 stages, will MK still dominate their scene?

Oh wait...

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=79888



So if you played on these stages by yourself you would get killed by hazards? I mean I can avoid the hazards real easy by myself. If there is opponent forcing me into corners/bad zones/me making mistakes though then that's the opponent killing me, not the stage.

Also GW's 9, Peach's Bombomb/Death turnip, Luigi's misfire....

well in that case lets make mario circuit,75m and big blue cp stages

 

[AlphaZealot]

So we should allow items...? Because... characters other than MK can use them?

Terrible strawman.

well in that case lets make mario circuit,75m and big blue cp stages

Another strawman.

My point is that the stages can only hurt you if you let the opponent hurt you first (either in positioning or in damage).

 

[hunger!]

So we should allow items...? Because... characters other than MK can use them?

/win -

 

[t!MmY]

This dude gonna make money.

This dude's going to get DQ'd for stalling.

 

[warrenb]

it's not stalling if i hit you , run for 20 seconds, hit you again :O

 

[ChKn]

I wonder...if MK were banned, would any of this thinking actually change? Or would people just move to the next meaningless cop-out excuse for banning a stage?

Maybe the latter, but who knows honestly. If the bulk of the community still shows dissatisfaction with this rule list down the road, then where do you go from there? A wait and see approach is appropriate, as shown with MLG. However, MLG has had great turnouts primarily because the big bucks were there. Wherever there's a large amount of money up for prizes, you can expect people to flock towards it without question.

The BBR is opposed to the institution of a Ledge Grab Limit of any number (for any character) for use in determining the winner of a match by time out.

What's the justification(don't remember seeing it) for being opposed to an LGL?

 

[t!MmY]

So why bother banning stuff that other characters can use, since MK doesn't even need those extra stages to dominate, but GW could sure as hell benefit a bit.

Terrible strawman.

 

[ADHD]

In otherwords then ADHD, no matter what the stagelist is...MK will dominate? So why bother banning stuff that other characters can use, since MK doesn't even need those extra stages to dominate, but GW could sure as hell benefit a bit.

AZ you haven't replied to my stipend question!
And our MKs happen to be 4 "top players," who have done well at MLG (accept anti who is bum lazy and refuses to travel). It's just a coincidence, and it's not the character to blame, when they've dominated before-hand without the use of the char.

 

[Vermanubis]

What do you mean new? Under the old ruleset the suicide rule didn't even apply to him, only Bowser. He's in the EXACT SAME boat he was in before either way. In fact, he has a better chance now because if he ties, he gets a one stock rematch.

One can assume, due to the nature of the move, it applied to Ganon as well. And no, he doesn't get a rematch. That's only if the results screen say so. Ganoncides very rarely ever end in Ganon's favor. I think the Ganon board general consensus on the rate of Ganoncide victory was like, 1/20.

Even if they did, this would still hurt Ganon, as if he had a strong lead and was knocked offstage, he'd still have no options, since the person at high percent could just force a side-b.

 

[.AC.]

Terrible strawman.



Another strawman.

My point is that the stages can only hurt you if you let the opponent hurt you first (either in positioning or in damage).

in that case why isnt mario circuit a cp stage?

 

[t!MmY]

My point is that the stages can only hurt you if you let the opponent hurt you first (either in positioning or in damage).

And thus born another age of camping and stalling.

 

[Anaky]

Imo for high competetive play only the Starter/Counter stages should be legal, Frigate is a good stage as well, but the rest are pretty lame imo, just getting that out there.

 

[lordhelmet]

Will you guys just listen to Timmy and Verm already? They know their **** quit trying to argue with them.

 

[The Real Inferno]

What's the justification(don't remember seeing it) for being opposed to an LGL?

LGLs are designed to limit a specific character, but in actuality affect much more than just people "planking". In fact, even though they were designed to limit MK, he didn't care and just started Scrooging and Air Camping, which only ****ed over everyone else then who didn't have broken planking. ROB is a great example. He gets ****ed in the *** hard by a LGL for no reason than he has to grab the ledge alot because his ledge options suck most of the time. This made Falco better for no reason, since no one could force him to approach the ledge and fight in his worst zone without risking hitting the LGL. As you can see, the LGL solves -nothing- and only hurt other characters.

 

[ADHD]

You do realize right, that people will plank way more often than any character being hurt by a ledge limit?

 

[t!MmY]

The Real Inferno is right.

In actuality, planking isn't even a problem. It's a theoretical problem (i.e. something should be in place to make sure it isn't abused). The "No Stalling" rule takes care of that problem.

I've seen Meta Knights force non Meta Knight players into losing via LGL by forcing them off the stage and then using aggressive ledge guarding to keep them off. When time runs out (which is more likely with an 8 minute clock), the Meta Knight wins regardless of Stocks/Percentage/Etc.

 

[Kitamerby]

LGLs are designed to limit a specific character, but in actuality affect much more than just people "planking". In fact, even though they were designed to limit MK, he didn't care and just started Scrooging and Air Camping, which only ****ed over everyone else then who didn't have broken planking. ROB is a great example. He gets ****ed in the *** hard by a LGL for no reason than he has to grab the ledge alot because his ledge options suck most of the time. This made Falco better for no reason, since no one could force him to approach the ledge and fight in his worst zone without risking hitting the LGL. As you can see, the LGL solves -nothing- and only hurt other characters.

So... why not just... make a LGL geared specifically towards MK?

 

[Chuee]

So the stalling rule, bans MK's planking?

 

[iFudge]

real talk. fox ***** mk at port town aero drive. new counter stage :O

 

[T-block]

Distant Planet, Port Town Aero Dive writeups are there. I'm working on Luigi's Mansion now.

 

[Mikachiru]

So the stalling rule, bans MK's planking?

It should.

 

[John12346]

I thought it was agreed a while ago that planking was "positional advantages"

 

[swordgard]

The Real Inferno is right.

In actuality, planking isn't even a problem. It's a theoretical problem (i.e. something should be in place to make sure it isn't abused). The "No Stalling" rule takes care of that problem.

I've seen Meta Knights force non Meta Knight players into losing via LGL by forcing them off the stage and then using aggressive ledge guarding to keep them off. When time runs out (which is more likely with an 8 minute clock), the Meta Knight wins regardless of Stocks/Percentage/Etc.

And why is limiting MK a good option.


Ban or don't, but do not limit.

 

[t!MmY]

So the stalling rule, bans MK's planking?

"Stalling: The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable."

Yes. It also prevents abuse from the Dimensional Cape glitch.

 

[The Real Inferno]

So... why not just... make a LGL geared specifically towards MK?

Because then you're arbitrarily altering a character to be worse (which we already stated we don't buff, or nerf characters). If the strategy is unbeatably broken, then the character is bannable for being broken. See the train of thought there?


@T1mmy: I forgot to mention the IDC thing is not so much for stalling as it is, we don't think it should be -extended- at all. Which means no increased recovery length crap.

 

[MintyFlesh]

Dk is ****ing broken on japes.... lol

 

[hotgarbage]

We have to live in the Meta-game that we're given. MK exists, and all of our stage bias is based on his continued use.

I wonder why this is though. The "ban only what is broken" philosophy is obviously accepted when applied to characters... why not stages? If it's really the case that applying said philosophy to both results in a broken game kudos of MK then why is it that the stages are banned without question? Perhaps MK should go instead? Where would you draw the line? How many stages is MK worth?

Of course the above is theoretical, as in practice there's no proof of MK dominance in a liberal stage setting.

so i hear there's no ledge grab limit....

time to staf it up and time you out.

...No BBR ruleset has ever had a ledge-grab limit.

 

[mikeHAZE]

You do realize right, that people will plank way more often than any character being hurt by a ledge limit?

eh its seems apparent by this silly ruleset that bbr wants mk banned, so they want to go to the extremes to see everything abused

 

[swordgard]

I wonder why this is though. The "ban only what is broken" philosophy is obviously accepted when applied to characters... why not stages? If it's really the case that applying said philosophy to both results in a broken game kudos of MK then why is it that the stages are banned without question? Perhaps MK should go instead? Where would you draw the line? How many stages is MK worth?

Of course the above is theoretical, as in practice there's no proof of MK dominance in a liberal stage setting.


...No BBR ruleset has ever had a ledge-grab limit.

Exactly, there is no proof of dominance, and we do not cater to MK. We did not ban stages because of MK, we are consistent in our mindset.

 

[swordgard]

eh its seems apparent by this silly ruleset that bbr wants mk banned, so they want to go to the extremes to see everything abused

Its the other way around. Catering to MK is trying to save him, not catering to him is not trying to ban him, its not arbitrarily limiting a character.

 

[Spelt]

If the strategy is unbeatably broken, then the character is bannable for being broken.

..............................but it's already been proven that MK's planking IS indeed unbeatable.
so why isn't he banned yet...?

 

[CT Chia]

I'm just glad that the BBR finally expressed it's disbelief in the LGL

Though I won't use the exact same stage list for my tourneys (I'm upset that I slacked a lil with voting lol), I just can't keep stages like Luigis and Port Town on.

All of the non stage rules are awesome and I hope everyone uses them.

 

[BBQTV]

awesome cant wait to use these

 

[mikeHAZE]

Its the other way around. Catering to MK is trying to save him, not catering to him is not trying to ban him, its not arbitrarily limiting a character.

i disagree, its the other way.