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Official BBR Recommended Rule List 3.0

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t!MmY

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@T1mmy: I forgot to mention the IDC thing is not so much for stalling as it is, we don't think it should be -extended- at all. Which means no increased recovery length crap.
Are there plans to ban Diddy's BDACUS? What about the Mortar Slide, or Stutter Stepping? How about other ATs beyond those extending movement? Oh wait, it looks like only Meta Knight is targeted. Thus he is singled out and nerfed.

And I don't get what you mean by 'increased recovery length'. It's my understanding that the DC Glitch only works while on solid ground, i.e. it cannot increase recovery length.
 

.AC.

Smash Lord
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..............................but it's already been proven that MK's planking IS indeed unbeatable.
so why isn't he banned yet...?
mk isnt the only one who can plank.
 

Raziek

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Are there plans to ban Diddy's BDACUS? What about the Mortar Slide, or Stutter Stepping? How about other ATs beyond those extending movement? Oh wait, it looks like only Meta Knight is targeted. Thus he is singled out and nerfed.

And I don't get what you mean by 'increased recovery length'. It's my understanding that the DC Glitch only works while on solid ground, i.e. it cannot increase recovery length.
The difference is, none of those tactics render the player invincible AND invisible for their duration.
 

Ripple

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Are there plans to ban Diddy's BDACUS? What about the Mortar Slide, or Stutter Stepping? How about other ATs beyond those extending movement? Oh wait, it looks like only Meta Knight is targeted. Thus he is singled out and nerfed.

And I don't get what you mean by 'increased recovery length'. It's my understanding that the DC Glitch only works while on solid ground, i.e. it cannot increase recovery length.
I think that you know how broken MK IDC is, so why are you asking if they are going to ban movement glitches?

inferno probably worded it wrong.

IDC lets MK decide where and when damage will happen. you can not avoid it on FD and if you lose the lead on any other stage you lose the game
 

BBQTV

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Sonic's final smash is large, and openly broadcasted. If you're hit by it, the other player clearly zoned you into it, and outplayed you. Get better.
lololololololololol
Ganoncide rule is ridiculous. It makes Ganondorf completely unable to recover on his last stock. Completely. He's the one who slams them to the ground during an Aerudo, so why shouldn't this logic apply to the Ganoncides? His side-b is pivotal to his recovery, and considering Ganoncides end in Ganon's favor maybe 1/10 times, this is godawful. Just because Ganon is terrible doesn't mean he should be made worse than he already is.
i know how you feel which is why that rule will never be on any tournament i run
 

t!MmY

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I think that you know how broken MK IDC is, so why are you asking if they are going to ban movement glitches?
The Infinite Dimensional Cape Glitch is theoretically abusive, though I have yet to see someone do it for an infinite amount of time. Simply extending the Dimensional Cape a fraction should not be lumped in with the aforementioned abusive stalling technique.

So if one extended attack is banned, others should be too otherwise only one character is being singled out and nerfed.
 

Ripple

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who else can plank as effectively as mk? ROB, IC's, and GnW definitely aren't as good at it
the question wasn't "who can plank as well as mk?", it was "who can plank?"

and the answer to that would be G&W, Pit, samus, and ROB
 

Raziek

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The Infinite Dimensional Cape Glitch is theoretically abusive, though I have yet to see someone do it for an infinite amount of time. Simply extending the Dimensional Cape a fraction should not be lumped in with the aforementioned abusive stalling technique.

So if one extended attack is banned, others should be too otherwise only one character is being singled out and nerfed.
You might have missed my post. It's not the fact that it extends the attack, it's the fact that it extends the duration of your invincibility/invisibility.
 

Johnny Citrus

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the question wasn't "who can plank as well as mk?", it was "who can plank?"

and the answer to that would be G&W, Pit, samus, and ROB
I know that, that's why I said effectively. He was saying that the no ledge grab rule doesnt matter since more than 1 character can plank, but no character can do it on the same level as mk where a rule is needed to speed up play.

And you guys say it's easy to see the cars coming in port town...yeah that's true, but the problem arises when the cars actually arrive. if your character is, say Olimar, you're gonna have a tough ****ing time avoiding the cars compared to, say, mk , who can just fly to the corner of the screen.

It interrupts gameplay, and if you get hit by the cars once it could kill you if you're at a semi-high percent.
 

Ripple

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The Infinite Dimensional Cape Glitch is theoretically abusive, though I have yet to see someone do it for an infinite amount of time. Simply extending the Dimensional Cape a fraction should not be lumped in with the aforementioned abusive stalling technique.

So if one extended attack is banned, others should be too otherwise only one character is being singled out and nerfed.
it doesn't even have to be done indefinitely to be broken. the IDC effectively lets a MK decide when he wants to to damage on FD. if he has the lead on any other stage the opponent must approach an invisible and invincible opponent until the MK allows himself to be visible which is beyond just "abusable", its broken. IDC also effectively ends a match 1 min -2:30 early. people CAN hit up on the C-stick for that long that fast.
 

t!MmY

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You might have missed my post. It's not the fact that it extends the attack, it's the fact that it extends the duration of your invincibility/invisibility.
Then let us DQ Donkey Kong players whenever they extend their invincibility. Or perhaps when Pokemon Trainer does it. Or how about we prevent Shiek/Zelda from transforming because the loading time extends their invisibility.

My main point is that it is not ban-worthy. Stalling is ban worthy and that is already addressed.
 

swordgard

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Then let us DQ Donkey Kong players whenever they extend their invincibility. Or perhaps when Pokemon Trainer does it. Or how about we prevent Shiek/Zelda from transforming because the loading time extends their invisibility.

My main point is that it is not ban-worthy. Stalling is ban worthy and that is already addressed.
How can we distinguish stalling from non stalling with IDC? There really is no definable way that isn't arbitrary.

Full ban.
 

t!MmY

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it doesn't even have to be done indefinitely to be broken. the IDC effectively lets a MK decide when he wants to to damage on FD. if he has the lead on any other stage the opponent must approach an invisible and invincible opponent until the MK allows himself to be visible which is beyond just "abusable", its broken. IDC also effectively ends a match 1 min -2:30 early. people CAN hit up on the C-stick for that long that fast.
Dimensional Cape has quite a lot of start-up time. It also causes MK's hurtbox to grow larger both on start-up and upon ending it. You can tell where MK is on FD simply by watching the camera follow him. Also, should he ever stray too far to the side, that is a lost stock.

But you do bring up a very good point. Percentage-based tie-breaking is easy to abuse.
 

John12346

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There are some misconceptions about the planking rule.

First, aside from MK's planking, no other planking has been proven/shown to be unbeatable. Show us that it can't be punished, and I'll believe.

Next, as I've said twice so far in this thread, planking is not an act of stalling while you're in the lead. While in the lead, the opponent has an obligation to approach or else he'll lose, so grabbing the ledge can be considered gaining a positional field advantage. MK's planking, while proven to be unbeatable, DOES have a few frames of non-invincibility, so, as stupid it may sound, one could potentially jump off the ledge to combat him.
 

t!MmY

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How can we distinguish stalling from non stalling with IDC? There really is no definable way that isn't arbitrary.

Full ban.
I'm pretty sure if someone tries stalling out a match with the Dimensional Cape Glitch you can do the same thing you can with any other stalling: call the TO over. Chances are the MK will tire himself out before that.

Personally, I'd love it if someone tried to stall me out with a Dimensional Cape. It's more than likely he will fall off the side of the stage and suicide before that giving me a free stock off MK. Alas, this is not realistic, as I haven't seen an MK pull this off for much more than a few seconds (including Mew2King).
 

Ripple

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MK's planking, while proven to be unbeatable, DOES have a few frames of non-invincibility, so, as stupid it may sound, one could potentially jump off the ledge to combat him.
I believe DMG said that even if you jump off to attack him, he could just drop down so far that no one can touch him.

someone jumping offstage to hit you isn't something you're just going to not see. you are going to move.
 

Ripple

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Personally, I'd love it if someone tried to stall me out with a Dimensional Cape. It's more than likely he will fall off the side of the stage and suicide before that giving me a free stock off MK. Alas, this is not realistic, as I haven't seen an MK pull this off for much more than a few seconds (including Mew2King).
you don't have to move to do IDC. therefore, no one should suicide using the move.

and the reason you haven't seen it been done is because its been banned. and just because you personally haven't seen it or have it been done to you doesn't mean it isn't realistic.
 

John12346

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I believe DMG said that even if you jump off to attack him, he could just drop down so far that no one can touch him.

someone jumping offstage to hit you isn't something you're just going to not see. you are going to move.
Or worse, you get Nair/Dair/Shuttle Loop'd and die for approaching @.@

The point is, it's the only way to get @ MK while he's planking. If the opponent chooses to back off, MK can get back on the stage and wait for the opponent to come back, at which point he can regrab the ledge. If the opponent chooses to camp with projectiles, MK can stay on the ledge, as it's his best positional advantage to avoid such moves.
 

Blacknight99923

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My thoughts on the BBR stagelist

it sucks...... (but thats my opinion)

that being said I can't blame the BBR for arriving at any different conclusion in all honesty. With the fact that the criteria for banning is so small its almost impossible to ban several things. However at the same time many things that they do banned are so opinionated that it too causes even more debate.

If I have the rules for banning wrong then correct me

The definition of "something is to random it prevents someone from playing brawl" is very poor. using a subjective term to that degree will always produce arguments where no player is right.

then there's the criteria of "an overpowering tactic that prevents you from playing brawl". Here we have infinites that are banned. Now I ask why isn't picking a character a tactic? the first choice you make in a match is your control settings and followed by your character, finally leading up to stage selection. Why isn't it a strategy that you pick metaknight in conjunction with brinstar bannable? In fact its just as degrading to game play as D3's wall infinites and walk offs could be.

How is this different than picking D3 in conjunction with bridge of eldin? In all honesty all of your actions in a match are dictated by your first decision in character selection, if you don't pick D3 you can't walk off to death. If you don't pick MK you can't shark, torndado abuse, ect on brinstar


There are some issues with the playing to win philosophy. Its that it doesn't apply to Smash like it does to street fighter. I could be wrong but in street fighter the number of random elements in are significantly fewer in default gameplay (not including unlocking characters that kind of stuff) than in brawls gameplay. If your gambling on an item showing up and you lose or win because it does or doesn't show up you aren't playing to win because you are allowing factors outside your control to dictate your decisions.

So in a sense the community plays to win by not allowing themselves to lose to things that are outside their control.

Secondly what gives playing to win (not including the trying to win part I am referring to the rest of the philosophy sovereignty to make decisions about our metagame exactly?

things about playing to win is that in any game the purpose is to win. naturally you cannot expect someone to do something that hinders their chances of winning.

But what it doesn't address is the human element of making a game better. Why shouldn't we play the game we want to play if it doesn't impede our ability to win?

People claim that a 9 or 7 or 5 stage starter lists are better but in reality those are opinions. I don't see how japan isn't playing to win? they aren't risking their chances of winning to random luck, they are playing on 3 stages that have little to not changes during the match. Its a preference and quite frankly so is stating green greens should be legal.

tl;dr anything past trying to win is opinionated and cannot be proven in definite terms


Also its pretty pathetic that only 20 BBR members voted on the stage lists.




For those of you who will be missing my points in walls of text

*The BBR cannot have chosen a different stage list
*the banning criteria needs to be changed to something that's not subjective and if that's impossible then do it by the majority using preference alone with baseline objective rules
*People claiming that EC are scrubs are simply stating their opinions on what makes a better game
* the BBR needs to have more people vote on their stage lists
 
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I just want to say that this is the best ruleset I've seen in a while, and that BPC, JK, and the BBR are really right on this one.

I'm still waiting for the analyses for the rest of the levels.

Can anyone who seriously plays this game approve of this ruleset? I think not.
Edited for hardcore ninja-ing.

I approve of this ruleset.
 

pwiito

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WAIT SO NOW WE CAN TURN SMASH BALLS ON TOO? Great!!! i knew my free4all experience would finally pay off cause the BBR members are a bunch of morons
 

Spelt

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I just want to say that this is the best ruleset I've seen in a while, and that BPC, JK, and the BBR are really right on this one.
yeah, and it's just the other 90% of the community who are obviously all off their rockers.
 

.AC.

Smash Lord
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ooh i think this is a trap by the backroom to see peoples reactions to such ruleset.
 

Blacknight99923

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with the BBRS criteria for banning you can't expect them to arrive at a different conclusion in all honesty even if me in my own personal opinions adamantly despise the current ruleset
 

Battousai780

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I was about to contest the new aspects of the ruleset with those who believe it to be a good thing, but I realized that very few people approve of it. It's chill, since hardly anyone will put this new ruleset into practice.
 

xDD-Master

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Shouldnt it be...

Starter


  • Battlefield
  • Yoshi's Island
  • Smashville

Starter/Counter

  • Lylat Cruise
  • Pokémon Stadium

  • Final Destination
  • Castle Siege

  • Delfino Plaza
  • Halberd

Counterpick
  • Luigi's Mansion
  • Norfair
  • Frigate Orpheon
  • Pokémon Stadium 2
  • Port Town Aero Dive
  • Distant Planet
  • Pictochat
  • Jungle Japes
  • Rainbow Cruise
  • Green Greens
  • Brinstar

Counter/Banned
  • Yoshi's Island (Melee)
  • Pirate Ship

Banned
  • Mushroomy Kingdom 1
  • Mushroomy Kingdom 2
  • Mario Circuit
  • Rumble Falls
  • Bridge of Eldin
  • Spear Pillar
  • Wario Ware
  • New Pork City
  • Summit
  • Skyworld
  • 75m
  • Mario Bros.
  • Flat Zone 2
  • Hanenbow
  • Shadow Moses Island
  • Green Hill Zone
  • Temple
  • Onett
  • Corneria
  • Big Blue

???
 
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