Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[Spelt]

lol (have wanted to pun that for a while)

and people say I'm a bad troll

 

[Shaya]

Rolling is like wave dashing.
BUT WITH MORE OPTIONS.

(amirite?)

 

[Laem]

Well wavedashing doesn't have invincibility frames
which is kind of the point of all of this

 

[Meru.]

just gonna leave this here for you shaya

What Niddo said was wrong (leave the poor guy alone, he needs a bit more sleep). What Shaya said was right.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

What Niddo said was wrong (leave the poor guy alone, he needs a bit more sleep). What Shaya said was right.

Actually, I need to stop having chronic fatigue, but that's another story. The second IASA was a quote from Kirk's topic, and that's the only definition I've seen for IASA. Unless I can't remember another one.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I'm still laughing at the fact that Meta Knight goes even with people

 

[Doc King]

I'm still laughing at the fact that Meta Knight goes even with people

imo, MK having even matchups isn't worth laughing at. I mean he isn't that powerful to basically beat everyone to a major extent. It's actually worth thanking Diddy, Falco, and Pika for having the game more balanced!

 

[choknater]

i love diddy kong lol. such a good character

 

[Steam]

imo, MK having even matchups isn't worth laughing at. I mean he isn't that powerful to basically beat everyone to a major extent. It's actually worth thanking Diddy, Falco, and Pika for having the game more balanced!

He's laughing because those matchups aren't even.

especially falco. if that matchup is even then falco needs to have a rather significant advantage on neutrals since he's completely screwed on MK's CP

 

[Doc King]

He's laughing because those matchups aren't even.

especially falco. if that matchup is even then falco needs to have a rather significant advantage on neutrals since he's completely screwed on MK's CP

Well you cant always base matchups on cps. Falco can punish mk's tornado with his lazers and can chain throw combo him, Pikachu can chain throw combo him, and Diddy can infinite and combo him with his bananas.

 

[Steam]

Well you cant always base matchups on cps. Falco can punish mk's tornado with his lazers and can chain throw combo him, Pikachu can chain throw combo him, and Diddy can infinite and combo him with his bananas.

yeah you can... if MK goes evenish with Falco on neutrals and falco's CP but absolutely ***** falco on his CP, that matchup is in MK's favor :/

also nado is a horrible move if used from a distance... if MK's getting lazer'd for it he's doing something horribly wrong.

also since everyone's doing it here's my IMO tier list
S
A ( / ) ( / )
B ( / ) ( / / )
C
D
E
F
G

 

[Doc King]

I'm just wondering but should Olimar, Ice Climbers, Snake, and Mr. Game and Watch be even matchups against Meta Knight?

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

^^IMO, Pikachu isn't that high. I would put him below Marth or/and Wario.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Really nice list Steam! Drop peach to top of D though.

Why'd you remove it? It was almost perfect.

 

[Steam]

Really nice list Steam! Drop peach to top of D though.

Why'd you remove it? It was almost perfect.

because I posted it in the wrong thread. I meant to post it in the tier list thread

though readded just for you <3

though if I didn't have to conform it to the current number of tiers the high tiers would look like this...


S
A /
B /
C /
D

with maybe D3 moved down to D...

I'm also tempted to have a 3 way tie between lucario, ZSS, and GW... in fact I'll do that on my original list.

 

[stingers]

gaw above TL? o.o TL is so gdlk though.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

g&w should be mid tier imo. he just fails against so many top tiers that most mid tiers do better against overall. i mean he ***** low tier and goes even with most of mid tier but really i think he should just be mid tier based on how much he fails against high tier.

 

[Orion*]

gaw above TL? o.o TL is so gdlk though.

This. GaW is worse than TL

 

[Doc King]

You know I'm actually thinking that since of this (http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=176686), some matchups are changed. Like I think that Dedede vs Ness should be a +4 for dedede since now he can infinite Ness and basically like Bowser and DK, once Ness gets grabbed, he's basically dead and Dedede can gimp him easily and camp him with waddle dee. I also think Ganon should be a +4 for dedede since now you can do a pivot grab technique to be able to get in a lot of chain throws off of a stage. Also the fact that he can get gimped easily and he lacks projectiles and cant approach well.

I'm not sure about these but maybe PT vs dedede can be a +4 cause you might be able to do the thing you can do with Ganon on Charizard and with there poor recoveries and poor tractions makes them big targets for dedede. Yoshi vs dedede with a really good tech skilled dedede could probably be a +4 for dedede (which im kindof doubting since Yoshi can play real safe against dedede), or at least move up to either +3 or +2.

 

[Poltergust]

More information can be found here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=291214

It shouldn't work on Yoshi, though. Yoshi's weird with Dedede's d-throw because you can actually d-throw him twice in place sometimes, but it doesn't work after that anymore (maybe because it's stale?). I'm guessing that's what happened here, also.

 

[Judo777]

You know I'm actually thinking that since of this (http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=176686), some matchups are changed. Like I think that Dedede vs Ness should be a +4 for dedede since now he can infinite Ness and basically like Bowser and DK, once Ness gets grabbed, he's basically dead and Dedede can gimp him easily and camp him with waddle dee. I also think Ganon should be a +4 for dedede since now you can do a pivot grab technique to be able to get in a lot of chain throws off of a stage. Also the fact that he can get gimped easily and he lacks projectiles and cant approach well.

I'm not sure about these but maybe PT vs dedede can be a +4 cause you might be able to do the thing you can do with Ganon on Charizard and with there poor recoveries and poor tractions makes them big targets for dedede. Yoshi vs dedede with a really good tech skilled dedede could probably be a +4 for dedede (which im kindof doubting since Yoshi can play real safe against dedede), or at least move up to either +3 or +2.

How easy is this trick tho. if the technique is like impossible like D3's infinite on snake then it doesn't really matter.

 

[Poltergust]

How easy is this trick tho. if the technique is like impossible like D3's infinite on snake then it doesn't really matter.

Uh... isn't it the same thing that I just posted?

 

[Doc King]

How easy is this trick tho. if the technique is like impossible like D3's infinite on snake then it doesn't really matter.

This technique is not like a near impossible technique that usually can't take human reflexes. This technique is probably just like doing Fox stuff in Melee (Takes some tech skill, but not to an extreme). Like doing this on Bowser, DK, and Ness is pretty easy on flat ground.

Also note that this is not the Buffered Pivot Grab, this is the Dash Dance Pivot Grab.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

pretty much saying that ICs have a +4 on everyone because they can infinite all of them...

 

[Doc King]

pretty much saying that ICs have a +4 on everyone because they can infinite all of them...

Well I mean for Ness and Ganon, they're pretty easy characters to grab and they lack good projectiles on dedede (Ness's projectiles can be blocked easily by dedede and are kind of predictable) and they cant approach well either. Also if they go off in the air, they'll most likely get gimped since of their poor recoveries. And if they're on the ground, Dedede can combo them easily with the dash dance pivot grab.

 

[Poltergust]

Oh, I see the difference now.

Ness is not easy to grab, by the way.

 

[Doc King]

Oh, I see the difference now.

Ness is not easy to grab, by the way.

Yeah I kind of relized that the grab release thing on Ness isnt as easy as i thought. But for Ganon, I still think it's a +4 for dedede and that this technique can beat Ganon down (Not so hard to do, just needs practice). This also makes Yoshi's Island a good cp that King Dedede can go on.

Also for the AllisBrawl Ladder, this makes DK and Bowser almost impossible matchups again against Dedede.

 

[Judo777]

Yea ness is actually pretty freaking hard to grab due to his great aerials especially fair.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

trying to grab ness is like trying grab a hottie's ***, it's really hard to pull off without getting seriously hurt but if you do get it, it's just soooo rewarding

inb4somethingderogatory

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

He's a tad harder, but it's still viable to get a grab on him.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

lol @ ness is harder to grab than random hot ***. some1 should sig this post and the 2 before it that mains ness.

 

[Steam]

It's only hard if you don't have a hot ***.

 

[John12346]

 

[Chuee]

trying to grab ness is like trying grab a hottie's ***, it's really hard to pull off without getting seriously hurt but if you do get it, it's just soooo rewarding

inb4somethingderogatory

.....................................
-dead-

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Anybody have Pikachu questions?

 

[Juushichi]

How bad does he beat DDD?

I keep hearing that it's even and I can't help but laugh.

Please go in depth about this. All seriousness.

 

[Spelt]

Anybody have Pikachu questions?

why is he even vs mk?

 

[Doc King]

why is he even vs mk?

Most likely because of his strong up smash and that he can chain throw MK to like 40% (I think). Also he's hard to gimp and he has projectiles to use against MK.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

How bad does he beat DDD?

I keep hearing that it's even and I can't help but laugh.

Please go in depth about this. All seriousness.

It is pretty bad. First off, Pikachu has something like a 0-60% CG on him that leads to off level (When I grab him at the edge, grab attack forces us both off, and my nair comes out before anything D3 can do, even air-dodge). After that, it becomes an edgeguarding game, which Pikachu can do really well. He can do the normal grab his up-b, but if he goes high with it I can thunder: Covering that option (going high) perfectly is something only Pikachu and MK can do efficiently.

Pikachu doesn't really have trouble with bair off-stage because of his versatile recovery, and Pikachu's speed makes it hard for D3 to keep Pika out with F-tilts. D3 doesn't CG Pikachu, but his B-throw does do a lot of damage. However, due to Pika's small size, it is hard for D3 to hit with U-tilt, so he has to rely on a D-smash or something at like 140. D3, on the other hand, is really big. If you put a thunder in between him (after a U-tilt or U-smash) it will definitely hit. This will either lead to him going straight up and getting thundered again, or getting sent off level, which I described earlier as absolutely terrible for D3.

Any other specifics with that?

why is he even vs mk?

1st off, which is something that is normally ignored, Pikachu does good on every good MK level (besides Brinstar), so MK can't really Counterpick Pikachu anywhere. RC is great for Pikachu (probably just as good as MK), delfino is good for Pika, Frigate is good for Pika, BF is good for Pika, and that is about all of the CPs that MK uses. Then, Pikachu has stages like FD, SV, and Pictochat which are definitely Pro-Pikachu stages in this MU.

Anyway, onto the actual fighting. Firstly, Pikachu is the one character in the game, besides another MK, that MK can't really gimp. QA is so hard to predict efficiently that it becomes a non-issue. MK will be hitting Pikachu as many times off-level as the other way around.

Pikachu can also control the ground rather well with his T-jolts. It forces MK in the air, and with MKs slow aerial mobility, Pikachu can score a few hits between dairs with uair (which can combo to nair). I also have a much better grab in this MU considering at 0-15% I get F-throw U-smash (24). At 16-19% I get 3 d-throws to nair (41% I think), 20-25% I get 2 d-throws to nair (32% I think) and from like 26-53% I get D-throw nair (23%).

Pikachu doesn't have trouble landing against MK, which a lot of characters do. MK excels in the juggle game, but due to QA, Pikachu can get down really fast. MK has a little bit of trouble, but Tornado pretty much gets rid of that worry.

Pikachu has a killing advantage on MK. U-tilt thunder will kill around 90% before hit, U-smash thunder around 85%, F-smash will kill at about 120% from the middle of SV, U-smash alone will kill at around 125%, U-tilt alone will kill at around 140%, and F-tilt will kill at like 160% from the edge. MK, besides shuttle loop gimps (I omit that and Blue thunder since they are quite rare), kills at like 125% from D-smash, and maybe 110% from F-smash, 130% from nair from the middle of SV, and like 130% from U-tilt. So yeah, Pikachu has the edge there.

There is also the comparison to diddy kong/falco, who were easily agreed to even. Falco can camp (which Pikachu can), gets gimped (which Pikachu doesn't), can't kill (which Pikachu can) and shuts MK out (Which Pikachu can't). Diddy controls the ground (Better than Pikachu, but Pikachu still can), gets gimped (Pikachu doesn't), can't really kill (Which Pikachu can) and his strength can be used against him. By THAT logic, Pikachu does BETTER than Diddy/Falco against MK.

 

[Steam]

for the 19826th time can someone please explain to me why falco is even when he instant loses on MK's CP?